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State persecution in UK

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Gedrene
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28 Aug 2011, 10:35 am

Zeraeph wrote:
Gedrene wrote:

Was that an insult? I was only trying to be explicit to pianorak. If it was an insult, do you always pick on people who defend you?


It was a statement, not an insult, now why don't you go away and work it out for yourself, because I am certainly not going to explain it. End of.


It wasn't an insult okay. I was just thinking because it was incredibly rude and you follow it up by bein short-tempered and ungrateful. I'll remember that next time I decide to defend you against someone accusing you of weird things.



Zeraeph
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28 Aug 2011, 11:48 am

Gedrene wrote:
It wasn't an insult okay. I was just thinking because it was incredibly rude and you follow it up by bein short-tempered and ungrateful. I'll remember that next time I decide to defend you against someone accusing you of weird things.


The only person trying to accuse me of "weird things" here (in a faintly passive aggressive way), was you - behold:

Pianorak wrote:
You seem to have detailed knowledge of these immoral and illegal activities of state.


Which you twisted to:

Gedrene wrote:
Second thing (to pianorak): I hope you aren't claiming that Zeraeph is involved in state terrorism.


Whoever you think you are fooling, I sincerely hope it is not me.



Gedrene
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28 Aug 2011, 12:08 pm

Zeraeph wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
It wasn't an insult okay. I was just thinking because it was incredibly rude and you follow it up by bein short-tempered and ungrateful. I'll remember that next time I decide to defend you against someone accusing you of weird things.


The only person trying to accuse me of "weird things" here (in a faintly passive aggressive way), was you - behold:

Pianorak wrote:
You seem to have detailed knowledge of these immoral and illegal activities of state.


Which you twisted to:

Gedrene wrote:
Second thing (to pianorak): I hope you aren't claiming that Zeraeph is involved in state terrorism.


Whoever you think you are fooling, I sincerely hope it is not me.


Well since that's pretty much what the thread was about and since he was talking about the state I doubt it. Also, who is the passive agressive person here? I was trying to defend you.



androbot2084
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28 Aug 2011, 12:25 pm

I received a lot of persecution from the Carpenters Union Mafia because I have autism.. Construction contractors were refusing to do business with the Union because they thought that the Union was protecting bad workers and I was the poster boy for the typical bad union worker. The threats of violence got so bad that I had to quit the Union for 4 years to let things cool down. When I got back into the Carpenters Union they were requiring drug testing so the spotlight was off me because they were going after the drug addicts. So whenever those Mafia guys would start badmouthing me it was quickly pointed out that I could pass a drug test with flying colors.



Zeraeph
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28 Aug 2011, 12:31 pm

That's awful androbot...eactly the same kind of rubbish used go on in the shipbuilding industry in Belfast against Catholic Workers...

I admire you for toughing it out. :)



Gedrene
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28 Aug 2011, 1:10 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
I received a lot of persecution from the Carpenters Union Mafia because I have autism.. Construction contractors were refusing to do business with the Union because they thought that the Union was protecting bad workers and I was the poster boy for the typical bad union worker. The threats of violence got so bad that I had to quit the Union for 4 years to let things cool down. When I got back into the Carpenters Union they were requiring drug testing so the spotlight was off me because they were going after the drug addicts. So whenever those Mafia guys would start badmouthing me it was quickly pointed out that I could pass a drug test with flying colors.


I don't doubt that you can pass a drug test with flying colours but given how many of stories then go on to make the point that all NTs are evil you I can't actually trust this without evidence.



pianorak
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29 Aug 2011, 2:05 pm

There is a recent propaganda swing towards demonising disability in general in the uk...but it is still far subtler than that and does not even go back 5 years.








The point is that my disability hasn't been recognised, and certainly wouldn't have been all that time ago. If the secret agencies you refer to are capable of doing such things to their own people, and they did them to someone by "mistake" because they had not understood them, there would surely come a time when they would have to start covering up.



pianorak
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29 Aug 2011, 2:08 pm

Sorry, that was a reply to Zeraeph - pressed the wrong one! :oops:



Zeraeph
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29 Aug 2011, 3:01 pm

pianorak wrote:
Zeraeph wrote:
There is a recent propaganda swing towards demonising disability in general in the uk...but it is still far subtler than that and does not even go back 5 years.



The point is that my disability hasn't been recognised, and certainly wouldn't have been all that time ago. If the secret agencies you refer to are capable of doing such things to their own people, and they did them to someone by "mistake" because they had not understood them, there would surely come a time when they would have to start covering up.


The propaganda swing towards demonising disability only happened in the past 5 years or so, not "decades", and takes a far subtler form than anything you describe, so that is very unlikely to be the explanation anyway.

The chances of the kind of long term persecution you describe happening by mistake are almost non-existant. I cannot imagine any form of "mistake" that would fit the bill...and if a mistake *DID* occur there are far easier ways to cover it up, permanently, than decades of persecution.



pianorak
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31 Aug 2011, 9:41 am

I have answered the first point already. Secondly, I believe many people with Asperger Syndrome won't find it hard to identify with a lifetime of being misunderstood!
It's putting the cart before the horse to expect me to find a reason for what's being done to us. There IS a reason for 'habeas corpus' and due legal process, and it's so that injustices like this don't occur.
You are simply choosing not to believe my account, without seeing the evidence, which amounts to prejudice.
And if the UK government is incapable of doing the sort of things that are reported in the media as happening in many other countries is that because the British are a superior race?



Zeraeph
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31 Aug 2011, 11:11 am

pianorak wrote:
I have answered the first point already. Secondly, I believe many people with Asperger Syndrome won't find it hard to identify with a lifetime of being misunderstood!
It's putting the cart before the horse to expect me to find a reason for what's being done to us. There IS a reason for 'habeas corpus' and due legal process, and it's so that injustices like this don't occur.
You are simply choosing not to believe my account, without seeing the evidence, which amounts to prejudice.
And if the UK government is incapable of doing the sort of things that are reported in the media as happening in many other countries is that because the British are a superior race?


No I shouldn't think that is the case...really not...in spades (I am not exactly a fan) :D

I am not questioning your account of what is happening (such as it is, it's a bit sketchy at present, don't suppose you would care to fill in a little? Just in general, no names or identifiers), but if it is, as you suggest, a personally targeted campaign of persecution, there must be a specific personal reason why it began and a specific personal objective to which it is aimed...and once you figure THOSE two out you have a far better chance of working out who is responsible, and how to make them stop it...which, I assume, is what you want?



Gedrene
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01 Sep 2011, 3:39 am

Zeraeph wrote:
pianorak wrote:
I have answered the first point already. Secondly, I believe many people with Asperger Syndrome won't find it hard to identify with a lifetime of being misunderstood!
It's putting the cart before the horse to expect me to find a reason for what's being done to us. There IS a reason for 'habeas corpus' and due legal process, and it's so that injustices like this don't occur.
You are simply choosing not to believe my account, without seeing the evidence, which amounts to prejudice.
And if the UK government is incapable of doing the sort of things that are reported in the media as happening in many other countries is that because the British are a superior race?


No I shouldn't think that is the case...really not...in spades (I am not exactly a fan) :D

I am not questioning your account of what is happening (such as it is, it's a bit sketchy at present, don't suppose you would care to fill in a little? Just in general, no names or identifiers), but if it is, as you suggest, a personally targeted campaign of persecution, there must be a specific personal reason why it began and a specific personal objective to which it is aimed...and once you figure THOSE two out you have a far better chance of working out who is responsible, and how to make them stop it...which, I assume, is what you want?


Unless you are actually only relying on straws and trying to fit everything in to a specific reason and a specific objective at which point you become a conspiracy theorist. Furthermore I doubt people actually need a good reason to push around people who they look down upon. They were like that in the past. They will be now.



Zeraeph
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01 Sep 2011, 6:41 am

Gedrene wrote:

Unless you are actually only relying on straws and trying to fit everything in to a specific reason and a specific objective at which point you become a conspiracy theorist. Furthermore I doubt people actually need a good reason to push around people who they look down upon. They were like that in the past. They will be now.


I agree, but pianorak is talking about something a great deal more structured than just randomly "being pushed around":

pianorak wrote:
For several decades my family has been subjected to a campaign of persecution, harassment and financial deprivation, including vandalism to our house, car, and power, water and phone connections, dishonesty and attempted extortion from private companies, personal abuse from many people including organised religions, and denial of healthcare (from either public or private sector), legal services, financial provision [for example from a work pension or social security (despite having paid into the former and being legally entitled to the latter)].

We have been to the police many times but have never received any help, even for assault, death threats or other life-threatening behaviour. In some instances the police have been at least complicit in the persecution. For example; on one occasion the police said that a man who came to our house solely to threaten us and commit vandalism, "had an alibi because he had informed [them] he was going to [our] house".

The involvement of the police and government agencies in the persecution convinces us that it is state-sponsored, while the involvement of private companies and other organisations demonstrates that the UK state is exercising much more domination over the nation than we are led to believe through the media.

A few years ago I realised that I, as well as most members of my family, are Asperger people, although I have been refused a diagnosis. I would be very interested to know if anyone else has experienced or is experiencing similar persecution in the UK or other western "democracies".



Gedrene
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01 Sep 2011, 1:07 pm

Zeraeph wrote:
Gedrene wrote:

Unless you are actually only relying on straws and trying to fit everything in to a specific reason and a specific objective at which point you become a conspiracy theorist. Furthermore I doubt people actually need a good reason to push around people who they look down upon. They were like that in the past. They will be now.


I agree, but pianorak is talking about something a great deal more structured than just randomly "being pushed around":

pianorak wrote:
For several decades my family has been subjected to a campaign of persecution, harassment and financial deprivation, including vandalism to our house, car, and power, water and phone connections, dishonesty and attempted extortion from private companies, personal abuse from many people including organised religions, and denial of healthcare (from either public or private sector), legal services, financial provision [for example from a work pension or social security (despite having paid into the former and being legally entitled to the latter)].

We have been to the police many times but have never received any help, even for assault, death threats or other life-threatening behaviour. In some instances the police have been at least complicit in the persecution. For example; on one occasion the police said that a man who came to our house solely to threaten us and commit vandalism, "had an alibi because he had informed [them] he was going to [our] house".

The involvement of the police and government agencies in the persecution convinces us that it is state-sponsored, while the involvement of private companies and other organisations demonstrates that the UK state is exercising much more domination over the nation than we are led to believe through the media.

A few years ago I realised that I, as well as most members of my family, are Asperger people, although I have been refused a diagnosis. I would be very interested to know if anyone else has experienced or is experiencing similar persecution in the UK or other western "democracies".


I know. Is it true though? If it is I wouldn't mind busting some balls, literally.



Zeraeph
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01 Sep 2011, 1:48 pm

Gedrene wrote:

I know. Is it true though? If it is I wouldn't mind busting some balls, literally.


I don't know, pianorak obviously sees reason to believe it is, but the only way to establish that for certain and find a way to perhaps do something about it, in the absence of clear evidence, is to establish the original cause and the eventual objective of the persecution.



Gedrene
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01 Sep 2011, 3:06 pm

Zeraeph wrote:
Gedrene wrote:

I know. Is it true though? If it is I wouldn't mind busting some balls, literally.


I don't know, pianorak obviously sees reason to believe it is, but the only way to establish that for certain and find a way to perhaps do something about it, in the absence of clear evidence, is to establish the original cause and the eventual objective of the persecution.

Erm, you're repeating yourself. The fact is that if you go out to try and find a cause and objective of persecution the problem is that you can sometimes have bias to find it. Furthermore persecution often doesn't have a reasonable cause. It is borne out of terrible critical thinking.