Conflicting Advocacy Agenda's

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i only used such terms to identify a view point,i dont like terms like pride mite or curebe.i wish there were better terms for political view points

Alan you are so right...this is the stuff that stirs up and perpetuates almost all the unpleasantness.

Well this 'pride' thought never really existed. What people are doing is cobbling together Supremacists and what I will term the Centrists. Often these Centrists are somewhat differentiated too but what can be agreed by Centrists is that in principle we are neither better nor worse than Standard Humans. I will outline the groups I know of.

One group of people believe they have qualities that are in stark contrast to Standard Humans but that this is not a problem. Their main issue is that forcing change is immoral and will only lead to discontent and misery, whether it be Standard Humans trying to make us do this or that or Us trying to imitate something we are not. Zeraeph belongs to this group I think. Their belief stems from the common idea that we simply aren't good at certain things other people insist are central to their existence, but that these do not actually matter any way in the scheme of things.

Another group, which includes myself, believe we are very capable of doing everything everyone else can and that the root cause of our difficulties are stylistic differences between ourselves and Standard Humans. Most of these problems that require support are caused basically by the ideas and actions of intentionally or unintentionally uncaring or ignorant people, and not because we are innately incapable of something. This works on the premise that belief of inferiority against a minority where their sense of direction is determined by the rest of society will only lead to them being pushed down in to an inferior position.

Another group, and this is the group that people tentatively agree with is that we somehow have advantages and disadvantages. This of course is built on the prediliction that these advantages and disadvantages balance out. It stretches back I think to the time of Hans Asperger, when he said despite great difficulty to their care-givers these children excel at their chosen task far better than any other.

I am only making a basic outline here so detail is sparse but hopefully I have given a comprehensive explanation. Of course each individual theorizes further.

One of my own beliefs is that people are basically saying any mental issue we have is autism and therefore the whole spectrum masks the actual reality that there isn't some autism disorder but just the lucky ones like me and then people with another unconnected but well... 'co-morbid' issues. At the same time I believe I wont just abandon them. We were thrown on the same boat and we gotta help 'em.

In any case as AlanTuring already pointed out in an earlier thread using 'pride' as an insult tars the Gay Pride movement, who by making themselves as visible as possible helped to transmit the idea that being gay is okay. Though I don't think that method will work so well with us, that doesn't mean that people should tarnish the word pride with associations of petty hate-speech, nor use as a way to stereotype everyone who disagrees with cure.

Please do not speak for me Gedrene, you do not know me well enough and invariably get it completely wrong, which is inclined to mislead others about my beliefs and positions.

I only have two beliefs relevant to this thread.

One (already expressed here):


Two,
That the needs of autistic people are many and varied, the only thing most of them have in common is that none of them will ever be best served by anyone who seeks only to exploit us without seeking our fully informed consent or speak for us without seeking our fully informed mandate.

There is no valid argument about what needs to be done as our needs are too many and varied.

The only argument about who should do these things rests on which organisations strive to genuinely place the real interests of autistic people first and have no other agenda.

Here is a comprehensive list of those known to me to meet the criteria:

what if its possable to cure the negative aspects of PDD's without changeing the autistic personality.what if we could have the best of both worlds.i want also to apologize for usuing words i like pride mite or pride crowd,i was just trying to ariculate a viewpoint.i personaly believe succesfull autistics being proud of there achievment benifits all on the spectrum.and could inspire more disabled autistics to achieve more themselves

Well what did I get wrong? Could you specify? Also I don't need your life story to understand what you have already told me many times in this forum, the forum about politics. So that invariably comment is a misjudgement, because invariably means I would have no chance of getting it right when it is beyond doubt that I can. The examples you use of what you already believe were already on this thread. So how wouldn't I be able to know? Furthermore what don't you understand about the words 'I think'? Doesn't that mean that I am not speaking on your behalf? Yes.

Pardon me but I will not.

My belief system is not relevant to this thread and you do not need to know it because should never, ever claim to express anybody else's belief system and/or opinions, that is for each individual to express for him/herself, as may seem appropriate, and you to either agree, or disagree with that in part, or in full, as it suits you.

I have explained such aspects of my belief system as are relevant to this thread.

How is talking about what someone believes in wrong? Is saying someone is a Christian wrong? No. Furthermore what gives you the right to say that what we are is somehow a belief that can't be challenged or debated or talked about? That's unfair on all of us. If you don't want people to talk about your opinions then why are you on a thread called Autism Politics? Talking about each other is central to the discussion. There is no simple yes/no and let's all go home for tea thing going on. Everyone has ideas and ideas have the right to be challenged!

vermont, I think I am speaking for everyone here when I say that I don't think you'd harm a fly. So don't worry about it.

None of this is relevant to this thread.

Well if it wasn't then neither was any of this.


I am going to stop though now.

I think angry is blind at times. There is more to be gained in their minds from distorting others good intentions, railing against others rights by calling it pity and gain to be made in inciting being a victim out of wholesome intents to ever compromise. Thing is unlike the gay movement which is entirely different they actually won't win. Sometime soon I believe this will begin to level out and allot of people will be seen for their good intentions rather then people who have socially abused them to get attention actually finding their own day given the methods and ethics. Autism is a disability people are trying to remove the barriers of for real people and that should be appreciated and not denounced even if it is extraordinarily zealous and intense at times. People are not perfect and that does not mean every imperfection in how they try to help should be made out to be an evil travesty inciting myself and others are hated because of it.

Traits of ASD's that cause impairments in functioning in some autistic people are not co-morbid conditions. Two problems that are innate and have nothing to do with society are verbal communication deficits, and sensory integration problems. These issues inherently impair some in life.

Support from society to accommodate these issues through adaptive communication and therapy are required for many that experience these Autistic traits. Society and what some people call "NT's" are an important part of support for these individuals to enable these individuals to fulfill their potential in life. Some here are suggesting let's keep the need for support for these people in mind. I think most do, but at times opinions don't reflect that concern.

Unless the symptoms of ASD's do not impair one in an important functioning area of life they do not receive a diagnosis from a professional. Co-morbid issues are often a result of the impairments. Some, with ASD's find impairments in social interaction to be a disabling factor in life . Some argue it is societies fault for not accepting those impairments.

The only way to hope to support that part is through better awareness and understanding of the differences in social skills with those that have ASD's and those that don't.

There are people with Autistic traits that don't understand and recognize the differences in their social interaction abilities, and there are people without the differences that have a difficult time relating to those with the differences. If there is no education and awareness effort in this area, it's not likely we are going to see much improvement in understanding and acceptance of the differences.

I'm not sure what it's like outside the US, but since the reported diagnosed numbers of individuals with Aspergers, in particular, are so low, there are relatively few people that come across an individual with a diagnosis in the workplace or mainstream school, and potentially a minority of the individuals that possess the traits that have received a diagnosis or even need a diagnosis.

If an individual has the traits and are experiencing problems, and have no idea why they are different, all they can do is adapt or seek help, perhaps receiving a diagnosis.

This makes it a bit of an uphill climb for many, in the area of acceptance from Society, because they don't understand why they are different; it's a bit unrealistic for us at this point to think that others should be able to understand the differences when some don't realize exactly what it is about them that is different than others.

Asking and hoping for acceptance is great, but without a determined organizational effort for education and understanding of what it is that people want acceptance for, it is almost impossible for change to happen.

At this point I'm not sure how it can be done, other that what I have seen another individual I know do, and that is actually to have professionals to come in to educate what Aspergers is to co-workers. I think it is extremely rare, though, that an individual would take this type of effort in hope for a positive outcome.

Aspergers presents itself in too many subtle ways, for anyone to gain a full understanding from a brief article in the newspaper, documentary, or movie. People forget that stuff, and won't likely make the connection in real life.

Once it is someone in their personal life, that is understood to have the condition, then they may do the research required to attempt to understand the condition.

Beyond that the only person that is really capable of trying to understand it is the person that actually has their own version of it; that in itself can be hard enough.

As far as Aspergers, the only thing left, I see, is to adapt as well as possible. For the people with the traits that aren't even aware the condition exists, that's all they can possibly do.

I have been trying to follow that advice, but I lack the thing to describe the thing I lack, and when I ask, I am told it is natural.

As close as I got was the psychobabble in the DSM, which did narrow it down a bit, but does not go on to explain what this is that everyone has that I lack.

At best it is a formalized version of the same I have been getting for sixty years.

You are right, I do not understand you, because you cannot say what you mean!

Empathy, is that feeling like the person being a fool and yelling at someone they do not know? So the social grace involved is kick them?

I know Marquis du Queensbury, but I am tired of hearing, You do not respect my greettiy, and fibble my srette with your gleedly. You should know how to wiffle my sheeplt!

As Psychobabble started this, I think it time to waterboard them till they confess the whole plot in simple English.

I find it a case of, "Alice in Wonderland Syndrome."

"When the white knight is talking backward, and the red queens off her head, remember, what the door mouse said, feed your head!"

"Words do not mean anything, words mean what I mean when I use them."

This did come from the same majority that caved in the economy, exported the jobs, so I have my doubts about their long term mental health.

I would like to point out that before this oh so educated modern psychology, just as many autistic were born, grew up, worked, lived, died, with less problems than are being produced by psychobabble.

Sure, we have a mental health crisus, it started when children no longer played outside, rode their bikes, ran, climbed, and acted like children. Once they were locked in, given to a life of sitting on a sofa watching TV, the behavior problems mounted.

We do have a problem, it is called Culture.

I learned the psychobabble so as to learn the psychobabblist. What I learned from there was how to view social context in a myriad of different potential ways. However with as many as there are I would rather the life of thinking go back to being simple again.

I don't think when people like ASAN use the word pity they are ever referring to any sort of compromise made by anyone else. In my experience people call what these groups do pity because that is what they believe these groups are trying to make others do, that is pity the poor autistic rather than actually help them. Pity is exactly the sort of idea that was put across by the I am autism video and ever since then it has always been parents wanting to 'conquer autism' that has taken the centre-stage and their belief that they want to 'pity' us.

The fact is that these people doesn't believe this is right as they don't want to be looked down upon. They feel that they are being victimized and it is well within their rights to explain their problem and well within their rights to explain why. As far as I know no group has ever actually gone up to ASAN, for example, and tried to compromise with them, at least as far as I know because I don't actually keep track of ASAN any more than any other group.

Also how do any of these groups rail against people's rights? As far as I know none of these groups have actually ever impinged upon anyone's rights. Also if they feel they are a victim of other's beliefs then that's also their right.