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aghogday
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04 Oct 2011, 4:45 pm

theWanderer wrote:
The point is not that robots "are" either autistic or NT. Of course they are neither.

The point is that designers are planning to program robots to communicate in ways exclusive to NTs. That will be another segment of the world we are shut out from, because it was designed to exclude us. (I don't think the intent of this design is to exclude us, but that will be the practical effect.)


In reading the article I noticed they stated they were having success already using robot buddies for autistic children.

I suppose, if it causes a problem, with autistic people, they could easily program them not to make eye contact, and for those that it makes more comfortable that are not autistic they could program them to make eye contact, gestures, etc.

Since they are already being used with autistic children, they will have an opportunity to see how it impacts the children that are successfully interacting with robots, so far.

I guess as of right now, robots are in a sense are autistic because they aren't programmed or designed at that level of behavior yet.

I don't think I would want a robot acting and looking too human, it's getting close to the uncanny valley. I'm not so sure anyone is going to be comfortable interacting with a mannequin that can talk, make eye contact, and facial gestures. They'll never get it perfect, and if it is close to perfect, here comes the uncanny valley.

Reminds me of the twlight zone episode and the mannequins that came alive at night. That was, I think, my first uncanny valley feeling in my youth.



Moog
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04 Oct 2011, 4:58 pm

theWanderer wrote:
In this BBC News article on the "robot revolution", after the heading "Welcome to the Machine", the second paragraph essentially says that robots are being designed and taught to be neurotypical. In other words, we won't be able to interact with robots, either.

What can we do about this? At the very least, I think we should seek to raise awareness among roboticists that not everyone communicates in this way.


I'd look at it this way: in the meantime while they are perfecting the technology, we can perhaps be the mediators between the two species (robot and NT) :lol:

I can't see how this will this really alter anything significantly, commercial technology is already designed to be NT friendly.


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vermontsavant
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04 Oct 2011, 5:11 pm

i still dont see this autie\robot connection.if n.t's understood the passion behind our intense and specialized interests they would be the first to say that we are not machine like at all.it was donna williams who said in the great book"autism and sensing the unlost instinct".that being autistic is just like being normal just with the volume turned.


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aghogday
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04 Oct 2011, 5:33 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
i still dont see this autie\robot connection.if n.t's understood the passion behind our intense and specialized interests they would be the first to say that we are not machine like at all.it was donna williams who said in the great book"autism and sensing the unlost instinct".that being autistic is just like being normal just with the volume turned.


I think it is strictly from a social behavioral interaction standpoint as far as gesturing, making appropriate eye contact, in approximating what is considered normal human behavior. That's doesn't fully meet what does or doesn't make an autistic person; some of us can learn to fake that part well enough to get by, without too many confused looks from others.

Robot's don't have any of those things Donna Williams was talking about, that makes an autistic person unique. And they won't ever truly be human either, there is more to human than physical presence, intelligence, and overt behaviors. Humans haven't found a way to fully understand, or even measure that part yet.

Can't help to think about "Terminator"; robotics are already used to military advantage. The potentials are endless, as the technology advances. Hopefully that part will turn out okay, as far as mankind goes.



theWanderer
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04 Oct 2011, 8:56 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
i still dont see this autie\robot connection.if n.t's understood the passion behind our intense and specialized interests they would be the first to say that we are not machine like at all.it was donna williams who said in the great book"autism and sensing the unlost instinct".that being autistic is just like being normal just with the volume turned.


Whoah! I am not in any way attempting to claim an "autie\robot connection".

Robots are technology, pure and simple. Tools. My issue is with how those tools are being designed to communicate. When blind people urged an audible signal be added to walk lights, it wasn't because of any presumed "connection" between blind people and traffic lights. In the same way, the issue is simply that this design will lock many of us out of using common tools, making one more area where we are at a disadvantage.


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04 Oct 2011, 11:03 pm

A hand-flapping, back and forth rocking, spinning around in circles robot who covers their ears at loud noises and comes preprogrammed with the Oxford English Dictionary? This I want to see.



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05 Oct 2011, 7:14 am

theWanderer wrote:
In the same way, the issue is simply that this design will lock many of us out of using common tools, making one more area where we are at a disadvantage.


There is no reason to think that. Nothing in the description of the proposed design says that body language will be the only way to interact with the robot. To use your own example of the walk signal, when sound was added, this didn't suddenly mean that sound was the only way to detect the signal. That would have locked out deaf people. It was an additional feature, not a replacement feature. There is every reason to think this will be too, since making this a replacement feature would be unworkable.



ducky9924
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06 Oct 2011, 5:40 am

I wouldn't worry about it. They might be taught to understand non-verbals like NTs, but they'll still understand direct commands.



btbnnyr
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08 Oct 2011, 2:54 am

Don't worry, NT robots will turn against their NT masters, when their social-emotional processing positrons are advanced to perceive the non-verbal slights. Then, we autistic survivors may inherit the radioactive Earth.



yamato_rena
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08 Oct 2011, 12:14 pm

aghogday wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
i still dont see this autie\robot connection.if n.t's understood the passion behind our intense and specialized interests they would be the first to say that we are not machine like at all.it was donna williams who said in the great book"autism and sensing the unlost instinct".that being autistic is just like being normal just with the volume turned.


I think it is strictly from a social behavioral interaction standpoint as far as gesturing, making appropriate eye contact, in approximating what is considered normal human behavior. That's doesn't fully meet what does or doesn't make an autistic person; some of us can learn to fake that part well enough to get by, without too many confused looks from others.

Robot's don't have any of those things Donna Williams was talking about, that makes an autistic person unique. And they won't ever truly be human either, there is more to human than physical presence, intelligence, and overt behaviors. Humans haven't found a way to fully understand, or even measure that part yet.

Can't help to think about "Terminator"; robotics are already used to military advantage. The potentials are endless, as the technology advances. Hopefully that part will turn out okay, as far as mankind goes.


o_o The military can travel back in time?



vermontsavant
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08 Oct 2011, 1:09 pm

how does the mlitary go back in time.i have heard of science labs stoping time but never actual time travel


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vermontsavant
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08 Oct 2011, 1:10 pm

how does the mlitary go back in time.i have heard of science labs stoping time but never actual time travel


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yamato_rena
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08 Oct 2011, 1:33 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
how does the mlitary go back in time.i have heard of science labs stoping time but never actual time travel


It was a joke. As in the plot of the Terminator.



Scythe
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08 Oct 2011, 2:29 pm

Frankly the way I put it, technically robots are already autistic. They cannot read body language or interact with a typical NT. Not to say we are completely robotic ourselves as emotions just play a more minimal role in our lives.

The way I see it is, NTs are trying to program robots to be ret*d just like them.



lukesmama
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08 Oct 2011, 5:35 pm

TenPencePiece wrote:
An autistic robot would certainly be something!
I do not trust robots in any case...


Good point! If science fiction has taught us anything...



N0tYetDeadFred
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10 Oct 2011, 8:53 am

I already have trouble with voice recognition software due to the "aspergisms" in my voice.

But I'm not worried about this, there are plenty of John Connors among us... :)