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Dillogic
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23 Dec 2012, 9:55 am

Has anyone been blaming the military only AR-15 variant that the US solder used recently in Afghanistan to commit a massacre of equal standing?

I mean, the government gave it to him!

Double standards. Double, double standards.



Magneto
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23 Dec 2012, 10:48 am

It ought to be fairly obvious that guns are not the reason the USA has a higher homicide rate than most western countries - back when the USA and UK had similar gun laws, the former had a higher homicide rate, and the introduction of gun control in the UK has not affected the homicide rate to any significant degree, except for perhaps allowing it to increase (in the 1960's, the same decade as the firearms act, the homicide rate stopped declining and began to increase; it also increased after the 1997 act banning handguns), though I don't actually think the increase can be blamed on gun control.

My point is, America needs to locate and address whatever it is that makes them have a much higher murder rate than Britain, and that is not a higher level of gun ownership. Going after the guns will detract from the actual problem, which is itself not a single problem.

EDT: the homicide rate was increasing before the 1968 Firearms Act.



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23 Dec 2012, 12:49 pm

If the US karma could change, a massive change and flow down, from the top downward, would be required.
Racism and greed, and certain cultural norms have underwritten a unspoken code of conduct and ethical landscape
These ingrained patterns of prevailing thinking and behaviours could be termed spiritual delineation, and a country, like a family, is often bound by the skeletons in the closets.

They sit for aeons in the back of ones mind, passed on in the genes, a psychic stressor on the DNA

The native people like our Maori are a warrior class of tribe, so the land is historic regarding the flow of blood.

To 'run amok' is taken from the Indonesian 'amok' which is an [olde] word to describe spree killings.
In the US lesser functioning males were more responsible 20 years ago with ages then around 30-40yrs old. Now junior males near 20yrs old of lesser function are normally bracketed as potential school shooters

Currently chinas school stabbers [of which there are many and a similar situation to the US exists there] are aged 30-50yrs, the same demographic the US had 20 yrs ago.
I have yet to consider these stabbers neurology due to lack of information.

Of the myriad of things that create a spree shooter/school stabber, at their madman core is an angry activist screaming for change

I meet crazy people all the time, from all walks of life. Most people are actually mentally ill, in some minor way [at least] or another.

Impassioned fanatics have always worried me though. In NZ our culture detests such impassioned ideation from any individual, and we have what has been described:

The Passionless People

With so many issues on our personal karmic plates, I prefer to be apathetic regarding political actions, as this is a mess not of my making and I reject excessive involvement in a damaged and damaging system built on greed and dishonesty.

Mental health is a profit focused industry, and [like all things capitalist] maintaining and increasing profit seems to be a motivating force within this employment.

Until we focus on doing the right thing, more crazy people will be created by our greedy and dishonest societies.

Simply put, if Lanzas dad was less money focused and more involved [in a healthy parenting role] with his boy this would never have happened.

Being rejected by ones own father is a serious step toward emotional problems.... massive fail mr moneyman



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23 Dec 2012, 9:20 pm

OliveOilMom wrote:
I don't think you can blame war for it. You didn't see school shootings back during WWII did you? Back then most kids had at least one family member off fighting.


You actually did see school shootings during WWII, but not as many, nor as deadly.

I agree with you that you can't blame war for it, though. Everyone seems to want an easy answer, whether it's pointing to bullies or war or gun ownership or not locking up all schizophrenics, but this isn't an easy answer thing.

Even so, some factors are being minimized while others are being exaggerated, and that in itself betrays a kind of agenda.



quietgirl
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24 Dec 2012, 2:59 am

In two recent newsworthy cases, a period of social isolation, followed by - or, more accurately, soon to be followed by - abrupt changes to living conditions, seems to have been present. The anticipation of abrupt change may be worth looking at. No one likes to be put out of the home they're accustomed to, and maybe this could be seen as a sort of bullying.

The only other commonality I see (aside from the obvious demographics) is possibly certain video games.

Am I totally crazy, or has a Manchurian Candidate type of scenario run through anyone else's mind? Something like, "Click on this link and receive extra bonus video game tools" opening up some kind of nefarious subliminal things may be improbable, but not impossible.

Various government agencies have been known to engage in bad behavior. The New York Times recently reported that Erik and Nils Olsen are planning to file a lawsuit related to the wrongful death of their father, Frank Olsen, who had worked for the CIA. The present government does want to rework the second amendment-related laws, and whether or not they should or should not is irrelevant - my point is, the government does what the government wants, as long as they can justify it to the public.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I can't not at least look at it from a "what if?" perspective.



Verdandi
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24 Dec 2012, 3:08 am

Videogames aren't programming people to be mass murderers. At best, they're desensitizing people to violence. In my case, I find real world violence abhorrent, and I play some fairly violent video games. Video games are basically like cartoons or action movies - fiction. Not real. Most people can distinguish fiction from reality.

"Manchurian Candidate" type programming is fiction, and could not be done with subliminal messages in any event. Subliminal messaging has at most mild effects.



AGX-15
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24 Dec 2012, 3:47 am

Bullying is a problem, but nevertheless ingrained in human society and genetics (it would be nice if we were more closely related to Bonobos than Chimpanzees,) the broader issue is the lack of mental health care and support in the country. An easy out is to blame Reagan for his cuts to mental health spending, but American society at large is dismissive of mental health issues, and to some of the media's credit they have covered this aspect of the killings.

I certainly understand those sorts of violent desires, having experienced ample bullying throughout my teenage years, as I assume most of us did. I suppose it's a blessing that I'm a shameful coward who prefers to hide and bottle-up my emotions than to lash out, in that respect.



fuzzylights
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25 Dec 2012, 8:47 pm

Guns and gun culture are the problem, plain and simple. Americans don't want to admit it, but the statistics don't lie. More guns = more violence. Guns are glorified and seen as a necessity for safety, and this simply isn't true. If you remove the guns, gun violence on this scale cannot happen. Sure, there will still be gun violence, but it will be drastically reduced. The 2nd Amendment does NOT guarantee the right of private citizens to own guns, it guarantees a state's right to an armed militia. Not to mention it was written at time when guns fired a single bullet which rarely hit its target. Guns today can fire 200 rounds a minute. It's not designed for hunting (I've heard this argument before and it's ridiculous. I grew up in rural Ontario where hunting is incredibly common, and I don't know a single person who uses a military grade assault rifle to mow down a buck) it's designed to kill as many people as possible. There is NO need for a citizen to own this kind of weaponry.



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25 Dec 2012, 9:27 pm

Guns are great. I'm not going to be cool losing the right to own neat guns because one person picks up a semi and guns down kids at a school.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but any gun can kill somebody if the person holding it points it at somebody and pulls the trigger. I shoot skeet with my friends and am looking at getting a Kriss Super V (with limited capacity) for kicks.



thewhitrbbit
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25 Dec 2012, 9:47 pm

Quote:
More guns = more violence.


Funny. The FBI is reporting crime is down, yet gun ownership continues to rise.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2012/ju ... mes_061112

Perhaps the study you quoted included the over 1 million lawful self defense uses of firearms? That could be used to over ride the drop in violent crime but it would be a false statistic because anyone who thinks those people should have accepted their fate and became a victim instead of defending themselves is the scum of the earth.

The 2nd Amendment is an individual fundamental right.

If you'd like to read a balanced article about the history of the right, may I suggest http://guncite.com/gc2ndpur.html

It contains foot notes and sources.



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25 Dec 2012, 10:49 pm

fuzzylights wrote:
Guns and gun culture are the problem, plain and simple. Americans don't want to admit it, but the statistics don't lie. More guns = more violence. Guns are glorified and seen as a necessity for safety, and this simply isn't true. If you remove the guns, gun violence on this scale cannot happen. Sure, there will still be gun violence, but it will be drastically reduced. The 2nd Amendment does NOT guarantee the right of private citizens to own guns, it guarantees a state's right to an armed militia. Not to mention it was written at time when guns fired a single bullet which rarely hit its target. Guns today can fire 200 rounds a minute. It's not designed for hunting (I've heard this argument before and it's ridiculous. I grew up in rural Ontario where hunting is incredibly common, and I don't know a single person who uses a military grade assault rifle to mow down a buck) it's designed to kill as many people as possible. There is NO need for a citizen to own this kind of weaponry.


Even if guns were 'removed' someone could still get one if they really wanted it......people buy illegal drugs all the time, that are illegally sold same thing would happen with guns. So banning them entirely would not be a very effective solution the way things stand...it would be good to live in a world where no one felt the need for a gun or other means of defense but things certainly aren't there yet and I am not so sure they will be.

I certainly don't think people in general need military grade assault rifles...but I thought those were already banned in quite a few places, either way sure there should be limits and regulations but banning guns entirely would just create an illegal fire-arm market like the illegal drug market......or when alcohol was illegal the illegal booze market.


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fuzzylights
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25 Dec 2012, 10:59 pm

No one suggested banning guns outright - but there needs to be some serious restrictions. Guns are deadly weapons, they should not be as readily available. Sure, anyone who wants a gun could get one even if they were banned. But for Christ's sake, they sell guns at WALMART. Guns are sold everywhere and they are so easy to get. If you make it harder to get guns and restrict them, gun violence is definitely going to decrease. Murder laws don't stop all murder, so should we just throw in the towel and make murder legal? Laws act a deterrent.



Sweetleaf
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25 Dec 2012, 11:15 pm

I thought the guns at walmart were mostly small scale hunting rifles that are locked up.....but yes I agree about restrictions. Also I wonder how many people who commit violent crimes typically legally buy their guns in the first place reducing availability to the general public(those who pass the background check and all that) just makes it harder for law abiding citizens to get guns...potentially leaving them more vulnerable to those who would commit crimes using a gun. Also I don't think most of these mass shootings reflect a lack of gun regulations but rather a reflection of the twisted society and system we have but they don't all fit in that category either. So it is hard to say what exactly would solve or reduce that issue.

Also owning a gun and murder are very different things so that comparison does not make too much sense to me.


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fuzzylights
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30 Dec 2012, 3:00 pm

The guns they sell at Walmart are the same ones used in the CT shooting. In fact many Walmarts have sold out of this gun, which seems sick and unfathomable to me.

I'm still not understanding why one would even need a gun if they're not into hunting. There is no need for a citizen to own a gun, there is no evidence showing that guns make you safer, in fact you are much more likely to die from being shot if you have a gun if you have a gun in the home (mainly during domestic disputes). If it were the case that guns make you safer, then would logic not dictate that countries with heavy gun restrictions would have more crime? But this isn't the case - crime rates are much higher in the US than they in other developed countries. I live in Canada, and I've never even SEEN a gun aside from the holstered ones on police officers. I know of one person whose home has been broken into, and the thieves had waited until her family was out of the home, as is common in home robberies. Only a stupid criminal would break into a house when there are people home. So...if the family isn't home, the gun isn't much use in that case either. In the event they ARE home, are guns not required to be locked up? What use is that when there is someone in your home? Your best case in that scenario would be to either try to escape the home or lock yourselves in a room and call the police. If a burglar knows the police are on the way, they're likely to get the Hell out of there.

As far as personal safety goes, consider this: in the event that there is a mass shooting in a public place, would drawing a gun and starting to fire wildly do anything? No, it would add more bullets to the crossfire and possibly injure/kill even more people.

Most crimes are crimes of opportunity, and can be prevented by locking your doors, and doing your best to travel safely. I've never owned a gun and never felt the need to do so. One only needs to look at the facts to see that guns aren't neccessary in any case, unless hunting is your hobby/job. I believe hunting is important, I grew up in a rural town and it's definitely a valued part of the culture. But other than that - who needs a gun?

Edit: Some resources on guns and personal safety:
What Florida Doesn't Want Me to Tell You
Protection or Peril?



Ramba_Ral
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30 Dec 2012, 10:05 pm

Most people who get a CCW licenses do tend to practice. There ARE places people go to get training in operating their firearms.


Pistols that CCW carry can vary depending on:
Caliber: 9mm, .380, .357/38special, .45ACP, 10mm, .25ACP, 32 Long, 32 Short, 22 Magnum, So on and so forth.
Action: Single, or Double
Style: Single Shot, Double Barrel, Semi-Auto, Revolver,
Size: Sub-Compact, Compact, Full size
Material: Steel, Polymer, Titanium, Steel/Scandium
Holster: In/Out Waist Band, Shoulder (left or right) , Boot (left or right)
Choice in Pistol: Do you TRUST the pistol your using with your life and the people you plan to protect.



ProfessorX
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17 Jan 2013, 2:01 pm

I feel that Tyrants(bullies) in school definately have a profound effect on other people's behavioral states of mind. I'll admit that I was bullied however, I never took out my agression on others cause, since I was not sure whether it would wind up making things better or worse.. Yet, dealing with bullies definately helps autistic people everywhere.
As far as guns? Well,if someone was a responsible person then I could not have a grievance with such but, when you have fanatics whom enjoy going around shooting at things I start to wonder..