Our class action against Autism $peaks

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I don't have anything to contribute about the legality of this.

I am a critical autism scholar currently researching autistic people as a social group. My husband, a lot of my family, friends, and mentors are autistic, but I am not.

That being disclosed, I can confidently say that most autism research is tinged with eugenics. Lots of things trying to identify autistic people sooner, academic articles about autistic "deficits", how the families that have an autistic family member have suffered, ways to "treat" autism, etc.

A big part of my thesis is about the negative perceptions of autistics, held by non-autistics AND even by autistic people themselves. I like to substitute the word "black" for the word "autistic" when I'm wondering if something is hate speech or not.

Could there be a major organization that is against black people, instead of autistic people? Sure. Could they have a website giving people misinformation? (And A$ does, you can look at their site and then click on their links to see how they misrepresent empirical data to suit their negative needs) Yup, racists can and do. Could they have parades and fundraising events to help them get rid of black people? Ah- now that's interesting. What happens when the Westboro Baptist Church or the KKK organize events? All the people in the community get together to drown out the hate. That can give a public face to the neurodiversity movement.

I would be VERY interested in a class action against A$. Michelle Dawson won a case in Canada that would have required all autistic people to receive government-funded treatment. Here is her blog. I wouldn't give up on the idea of pursuing legal action.

Hi SocOfAutism,

I think in terms of legality, it would be possible something like your describing could happen in the U.S.

However, a couple points:
---I am not interested in government funded treatment nor do many people with ASD I have met (I met 50+ people with ASD). If this lawsuit were to occur in the U.S. and was awarded government funded treatment as a result, I would most likely deny all of it or almost all of it.
---I would however, have an interest in government waivers that fund professionals of my choosing to treat my PTSD from abuse caused by autism services, funding support that is not "evidence based" but something of interest to me that helps me cope with my ASD, grants to fund the fact that I have a harder time using my strengths due to false info portrayed about autism, etc.
---I am very interested in being accepted by society for who I am and the ability to intentionally break social norms which cannot occur thru a lawsuit or government funded treatment.
---I do feel that autism research is necessary but that people should aim to better understand ASD as a whole not try to find a "cure"
---I think that ABA is a very valid autism treatment but definitely not a valid Aspergers treatment. However, people have misinterpreted what Skinner states what ABA is and is not to make it abusive as a result.
---I have high functioning autism not Aspergers. As a result, the "treatment" needs to be different for me as your husband who probably has Aspergers.

I have the tendency to get cliquey with people so please don't take offense if I hog or domanate this chat room. It is my unique autistic social interests. I write a lot in these chats because my voice is not heard when a bunch of self advocates with Aspergers voice opinions about autism that aren't mine.

Any non-profit business can take donations, it's not illegal for them to do so, and they may use it for whatever they wish, unfortunately, and that is also legal, regardless of what they say they're going to use it for. Just because A$ takes in as much as they do, it doesn't make them strictly for-profit.
Second, false advertising doesn't apply here, since they aren't selling a product for consumers to buy and use in some fashion, and they can use that argument in court to get away from that as well.
Third, calling something non-profit vs for-profit is strictly a business term, and it's a classification that depends on a variety of criteria, not just money. The absolute most you could get someone on for misrepresentation is fraud, but since it's a business category, I highly doubt you will be able to win in a court case on that slim concept, and even if you did, what would change? They'd just settle out of court and pay a fine with the money they have, as most businesses their size do.
Lastly, no-one is "intimidating you into doing nothing", we're trying to tell you what you're up against, both financially (because you stand to be counter-sued when going up against a business like this, especially if you don't win the lawsuit because then they can claim that you deliberately wasted their time), and legally, and if you can't see that we're trying to help you understand this process and the odds of success, then you really shouldn't be doing it in the first place.
Nobody is trying to tell you what to do, you do whatever you like, but you're still going to face the same challenges that we've been stating the whole time.

Do you really think you're the first person who will have filed a lawsuit against A$? Do you think you'll be the last? How many lawsuits do you think have never reached the light of day (media) because of how small the story turned out to be? How many have tried, and failed miserably, to do what you're proposing, and have lost everything because of it?
These are all questions you should already know the answers to when filing a lawsuit against an opponent, and if you don't, you could be in for a rude awakening.
A$ isn't going to be taken down through a lawsuit, plain and simple, it would take the most damning of evidence to do it, and they know legality more than they know the spectrum, so you probably won't find anything severe enough to take them down like this.

As others, as well as I, have stated already, you're only real option here is to talk to those who support A$ or those who would do so without an understanding about the organization's practices.

What makes you think the entire autistic community has the same concept in mind? Have you read the posts in this thread? Most of us that have posted don't even agree that this is the proper way to take down A$, yet you feel the need to group everyone together in a big clump of crap as if we do. Rethink that and try again. Don't use blanket statements when referring to any thread as if everyone here agrees when it's obvious that's not the case.

Hey Jaden,

I am ok with you disagreeing with me and my views but just like with CharityGoodyGrace, I viewed your post as a personal attack on me. My very first post to this article clearly stated I am NOT in support of a class action lawsuit. I was commenting on the last post where a user was interested a class action lawsuit as it worked in Canada (contrary to your claim that most people on this thread were against the lawsuit idea). Make sure you do what you asked me to do and read previous posts of mine.

You are not the boss dictating what I can and cannot write on threads. I promise you that I will use "blanket statements" and "big clumps" when posting in the future on this thread or any other one (this is a different belief I have from you about how to discuss ASD).

Your opinions are very valid but do not represent mine or the vast majority of those with ASD I meet. Most people with ASD I meet end up in group homes, institutions, living with abusive parents, etc, and are not active on this site as a result (so you will never know these people actually exist). I do not feel properly represented by groups like ASAN and Wrongplanet as a result (kind of like how you and myself included feel misrepresented by Autism Speaks). While defanitely having ASD myself, I do not feel like I am alike to most people in this chat-room more aligned with people organizations like Autism Speaks tries to hide from everyone including the self advocate group.

You seem like a very smart guy with a strong voice but please do not attack my opinion like you did. I want to get my voice out there just like you do while it may be a very different voice from what your accustomed to. I want to have a healthy conversation where other posters like yourself do not get super defensive after every thing opposite of your belief that I post.

I don't want to be the bad guy reporting every single person who clearly violates Wrongplanet policy but will not tolerate being verbally attacked every time I voice a different opinion or perspective as most with ASD that you meet or encounter state.

First off, get off your high horse, I never attacked you, nor your opinion, and the only thing I ever said to you was to not use blanket statements because they are inaccurate, if you have a problem with that, too damn bad, I have a right to say what I will just like you do. Second, I haven't violated any rules here, and you'll be hard-pressed to make anyone listen to you trying to say that I did in that short response that you took so much apparent offense at. Furthermore, you will find quite quickly that I do not tolerate bullsh*t from people, so if you have no internal censor, you'd better get one pretty quick when responding to me. If that's going to be a problem for you then don't bother responding to me, period.
Lastly, if you want to post where people don't get defensive about what you say, then take more care in what you say, and stop getting offended when people, like me, tell you that your post was offensive to them (blanket statements). Expecting everyone else to not be defensive, while you yourself are being super defensive, is hypocritical bullsh*t. If you don't like what I had to say about your post or your attitude, too bad, get over it. I guarantee when you continue using blanket statements here on this site, you will be called out on it because no-one here takes too kindly to being classified as something they are not.

I suggest you think twice about the next thing you say to me, you're not doing yourself any favors by taking offense at every comment that shows opposition to yours.

Just to clarify: Michelle Dawson is an autistic self-advocate. The case was about a group of parents of autistic children who wanted the government to require "treatment" for all autistic Canadians. Michelle Dawson opposed this on the basis that the human rights of autistics would be violated by forced treatment. The Canadian court agreed with her. It was an epic win for human rights and for autism self-advocacy. If anyone wants to read more about this case, you can start here.

I don't know how feasible a legal case is, but I'm saying it might be worth looking into. Most lawyers will give a free consultation.

To respond:

Jaden:

My opinion involves the heavy use of blanket statements on ASD. I am challenging the views to individualize treatment for ASD. I greatly apologize for offending you but part of my opinion and beliefs about ASD challenges the use of "individualized treatment" as well as the use of "blanket statements." If you don't believe me that I'm autistic, I will be more than willing to send you (and the group) a former IEP of mine proving that I have autism. I believe those with ASD are more similar than different except for the Aspergers group which are far different from the rest. I have heard you when asking me to stop using "blanket statements," and again, I will say "no" to that request of yours. Again, I apologize for being viewed as offensive but is just my opinion (obviously not yours). I am ok being "called out" for doing so as a result but not ok with being attacked. I believe you that if I keep using "blanket statements" on this site that I will be called out for it. I do have an "internal censor" but am not filtering out my own opinion which again, involves the heavy use of "blanket statements" to describe ASD. I use my "internal censor" when I chose to and other times, choose not to use it. I never said that my "blanket statement" I used about ASD is accurate about you personally. If you read my previous post, it would state that I admitted that my opinions greatly differ from yours and most from ASAN and Wrongplanet. Also, I am listened to on ASD topics in settings other than Wrongplanet (you may not believe I am ever listened to but this is false). If you don't want me to comment on your posts, than feel free to not comment on mine anymore. Please stop telling me what to do and change your own behavior instead of trying to change mine.

You will note in my response to SocOfAutism that she is challenging my belief that a class action lawsuit is not appropriate but am not upset at her at all like I am at you. It is the way in which you are expressing your disagreements that is turning me off (not the actual beliefs you have).


SocOfAutism:

I am pretty impressed with the link you posted (I read or skimmed all of it). I am 95% in agreement with Michelle and 5% in agreement with the parents.

Some things I want to comment about this.

1. This is not a court case against an organization like Autism Speaks committing defamation. It is a self advocate protesting against a bunch of parents trying to mandate those with autism to get treatment. So your comparing apples and oranges.

2. I am glad that the court realized that the parent group was out of line. My personal experiences with myself and other individuals with ASD is that the parents tend to be the most abusive and unsupportive people in the live of one with ASD. Of every 5 individuals 15+ I meet with ASD, 4 of them have verbally abusive parents. The parent tends to want their son/daughter with ASD to be "normal" while the person with ASD resists. There are some exceptions to this (Aspergers). Your husband is most likely an exception with Aspergers. My personal experiences revolve around understanding high functioning autism and PDD-NOS dynamics (not Aspergers dynamics) who either cannot or will not comform with society's norms.

3. I do not believe that autism and PDD-NOS are disabilities but instead great gifts. However, I believe that ASPERGERS (not ASD as a whole) is a legit communication disability. Just like with the LGBT community, people with ASD (but no Aspergers) are different and unique individuals that do not want to change. Their differences make them "disabled" because they have to conform to a society not geared towards them (like someone in a wheelchair).

4. From my personal experiences, I have met 50+ people with ASD but only one or two without experience being abused by the autism services. The autism professionals and services 99% failed me. I live 100% independently now but do not credit most of my success from autism supports.

5. I generally agree with professionals that the vast majority of people with ASD desperately need help and "treatment." However, I tend to strongly disagree with professionals about what type of help they actually need.

6. My goal is to separate Aspergers from the rest of ASD so each person with ASD gets the support and treatment best for them. People mistakenly believe that high functioning autism (which is what I have) is another name for Aspergers except that those with high functioning autism talk later. My experiences with the services are that there is somewhat appropriate treatment for people with Aspergers and for people with more needy autism but NOTHING appropriate for high functioning autism and PDD-NOS. Anytime an autism professional tries to individualize treatment with me, they put me in the Aspergers mold therefore NOT "individulaizing" treatment like they say they are.

7. I think a person with ASD can be defined by their diagnosis and also defined by who they are as a person (both not one or the other).

8. I am all for people designing better quality services. However, I am generally against increasing ASD supports other than not leaving adults with ASD in the dark who either cannot or will not conform with society's norms.

9. I do not think any treatment should ever be forced unless the person knowingly abuses other people or is an immediate harm to self or others (or will be in an immediate harm to self or others without proper treatment). If a person is less successful due to lack of treatment but does not meet this strict criteria, I believe that person will have a natural consequence of not being as successful due to not getting treatment. Also, what one thinks is "successful" may not be the way someone else does. My experience shows that the vast majority of individuals with ASD understand how they operate quite well and have an 80-90% accuracy rate to determine if a service is right for them or not (while parents are more like 5-15%). Many (but not all) are extremely independent individuals that would know how to treat themselves with self care if people were to leave them alone.

10. I believe the vast majority of ASD symptoms are chronic PTSD symptoms and that virtually everyone with ASD has a dual diagnosis of chronic PTSD. This includes "behavior problems," depression/cutting, communication problems, etc.

11. I took a mental health first aid class a year or two ago and was completely appalled to find that numerous "evidence based" approaches routinely used on those with ASD are under the "don't ever do in a million years" section of the textbook.

12. I think ABA if done right and the way it was intended to be done by Skinner is an amazing ASD treatment but only for some individuals with ASD. ABA is a way to teach social skills in a way it will compute with many individuals with ASD. I have attended ABA workshops when saying this. ABA isn't as bad as people say it is (more the misunderstanding of what ABA actually is and what it isn't).