Blog post comparing Aspergers and Psychopathy
That article is horrifically insulting. There's no point in trying to argue with her because her mind is made up that we don't have empathy. We think we do, but ohhh noooo, we CAN'T COMPREHEND what empathy is. So she flat-out dismisses any logical reasoning because we're apparently too stupid to know how empathy works. I can't believe people see us in this light. She also thinks every Aspie is the same, which is obviously false. She's had a few bad experiences with them, and now she hates all of us. If she had a bad experience with a black person, would she write an article about hating all blacks? No, because that's racism and frowned upon. Apparently we are "lesser beings," which makes it all right to be subjected to belittlement like this. I want to throw up.
I registered just so I could post this. Her host is Siteground, and they have a Facebook page. (I can't post a link as a new user, so just go to Facebook and type "Siteground" into the search bar.) I sent them a message saying that one of their hosted sites is hatemongering towards people on the autism spectrum. It might not do any good, but it can't hurt.
With what truth? That Aspies are abusive? Are you abusive? Lately it looks like you keep defending people who stigmatise aspies.
I wrote a longer response to this:
https://mynoneabdlthoughts.wordpress.co ... 2/09/1373/
I like your response. However, by any chance did you try to comment on that blog because apparently, she saw the post I made on WP and then updated her blogpost to say that I apparently deliberately misquoted her to get people upset (and I'm a "she" apparently):
So, I got offended by her psychopath AS comparison and had a little rant about it on WP. That full quote is actually no better and no less offensive when read it in context. Especially in the context of a whole bloody blogpost describing how features that she apparently sees in people with AS are somehow similar to features that she sees psychopaths. So, this accusation is actually disingenuous. Also speaking of misquoting, she actually did exactly the same thing on her blogpost in quoting other people that she accused me of doing just in order to portray aspies as well as the entire autistic community and the neurodiversity movement the way she wants to. To give some examples, also within some surrounding paragraphs to give the original context in which they were quoted:
One reason is the very active autism lobby and its “neurodiversity” movement.
Another reason is that they maim and traumatize others with bumbling cluelessness instead of with intent:
Their redeeming values are their guilelessness and ineffectiveness. They are the absence of bad, rather than the presence of good.
So, to answer the original question, actually, the reason why there aren't many similar things written online about accepting psychopaths is because, unlike us, they are actually considered a menace to society, considering that there's a higher propensity for them than the general population to commit violent crimes, manipulate others etc. Also, do you know where thas quote comes from? It comes from the blogpost of an actual confessed sociopath, as though that would be a reliable source of information about AS. I don't understand what the purpose of quoting from there is, other than to try and portray us as highly menacing. A confessed sociopath trying to compare himself to an aspie is hardly an unbiased source, not to mention that what is said in the quote is nowhere near accurate, especially if you look at the academic literature. As for some actual misquotes or quotes dishonestly taken out of context, here's one
I was actually curious to see where this came because while AS can cause some problems in relationships, most, as far as I'm aware, aren't so bad that you have to fear expressing any kind of emotion. So, I googled it. As it turns out, that is actually not the case because in the same blogpost that this quote was taken from, as well as in a comment the original blogger made to the blogpost, this woman actually states that she does share he feelings with her husband and he does listen. They just had to work out when to do it at the right time. In fact, from the same blogpost that the quote was taken from, this is also stated:
It's also worth noting that this is only one aspie and not all AS/NT relationships look like this, that AS person a problem with exploding and yelling at his partner when they show emotions that they can't deal with at that specific time. In fact, most probably aren't. Notice that I'm not in anyway condoning the behaviour (which I agree does look abusive and good on her for not accepting it), I'm just curious as to why in a blogpost claiming that we can't offer any empathy and can't meet the emotional needs of others has to quote from a blog that contradicts this statement. Here's the original blogpost it was quoted from:
http://aspiewifeandmom.blogspot.co.za/2015/10/speaking-of-consequences.html
She then goes on to quote something else from the same blog:
And he doesn’t.
In a moment of . . . What was it this time? Intense feeling? A desire to share? Forgetfulness? Foolishness? Mere stupidity on your part? Whatever the cause, you did it yet again. You shared something of yourself. And the result was utter destruction. Sheer madness. Wondering again ‘What the hell just happened here?’
Oh, yeah. Now I remember.
Back into the hole I go.
I choose peace.
Well, that sounds completely horrible and I'd also advise someone in that position to leave the relationship. However, quoting this here is completely dishonest and I'll explain why in just a minute. You see this blogpost was posted in October 2013, at a time when her husband did not have a diagnosis, did not accept that he had AS, and they had not yet been for couples counselling. Since the time that this blogpost was made, he got an official diagnosis, they apparently went for couples counselling and their relationship no longer looks like this at all, as she is now able to share her feelings with him and get her emotional needs met. So, this problem has actually since been fixed due to couples therapy. Again, I'm not condoning the behaviour but you'd think that you quote something like this you'd also need to provide the full context.
I'm also curious though, if you google for blogs about being NT Partners of aspies, the majority of them are either more positive than this, though sometimes describing a few issues or they are written by people who are intending to leave the relationship or have left. Therefore, in order to of found that one, she must of specifically googled for blogs that encourage people to stay in apparently abusive relationships. In reality though, it's extremely rare that you'll find anything online that specifically encourages people to stay in abusive relationships. Even those sites that give "tips" on how to be in a relationship with an aspie, which she is so angry about don't ever say this. (In fact they almost always say the opposite if someone asks the question, that AS is not an excuse for abuse.) The goal here is easy to see, that she wants to portray aspies as the same as or similar to psychopaths (or to make her happy, that our effects on other people are the same) as well as to discredit positive sites that encourage mutual understanding (which she blames on the 'neurodiversity lobby') by portraying them as trying to encourage people to stay in abusive relationships by any means necessary, even if it is by quoting unreliable sources and quoting-mining people. Trouble is, since she couldn't find a single site that actively encourages people to put up with abuse, she decided to quote from a personal blog by someone who describes something that is not necessarily typical of AS/NT relationships.
First of all, I'm not a "she". Secondly, gee wiz, now look who's talking. What I've seen from her side is actually taking a quote from the blog of a confessed sociopath in order to make it look like we're similar to sociopaths (and it even says as much in the quote). Plus since she wants to portray the autistic community as condoning relationship abuse and yet couldn't find a single example of it, she quotes from a personal blog that isn't necessarily reflective of all relationships with high functioning autistics all in the name of portraying us as some kind of monsters and to "warn" people to stay away from us. There is actually some more dishonesty on her blogpost but I can't provide a full response like League-Girl did because I don't have a blog.
I appreciate your time for writing this response.
I wish I knew how to google blogs that are not named in blogs. I views the blog and even though there is some negativity, that is the same for all marriages even my mom will say bad things about my dad sometimes and then she will say how great he is.
To answer your question, no I didn't comment on her blog. I thought about it but decided not to. I see what you mean by she was warning others to stay away, I didn't see her say that anywhere in her blog but I can see how you came up with that. Now that blog post sounds horrible.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
Just wow. I don't know where to start. If someone wrote something so slanderous about the entire general population of people with a disability such as, for example, multiple sclerosis, there would be an outcry and uproar and it would probably make the national news.
I sometimes tell people about having aspergers but i don't tell everyone. I usually tell people about my son's ASD if they are going to be caring for him in any way. But stuff like this makes me not want to tell anybody ever. I don't want my child to have to deal with this kind of prejudice.
And she has the nerve to call aspies selfish.
nerdygirl
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I have been thinking about this very topic this week.
I lived with a sociopath for a time, when I was in high school. It's a long story I'm not going to get into now.
It was the worst 3-1/2 years of my life.
People with an ASD are not sociopaths. They do not have the social suavite that sociopath's do. They cannot really *fake* anything.
I suppose that a few on the spectrum are sociopaths, but then I would question if they were on the spectrum because one of the reasons sociopaths are successful is because they do not exhibit bad social skills.
They look like people others want to be around. Charming. Well-dressed. Polite. They know what to say at all times to win people over to them who they can later manipulate.
Last I checked, most people with ASD are not charming!
When you can't hide your awkwardness, you aren't exactly able to manipulate people and make them think you are something you are not.
The person I lived with was *definitely* a sociopath. I have met two others who I also suspect were sociopaths. All were extremely charming in their first impressions. I also know at least 10 people IRL with a diagnosed ASD. They are not at all the same.
Talk about armchair psychology. We think "Aspergers" is thrown around too much. How much more dangerous is throwing around "Sociopath!" People are using this term anytime someone does something they don't like or think is wrong - the person must be a sociopath! Sociopaths are SO DANGEROUS we have to be careful to not throw around this label, or else we end up in a situation like the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
Here are two links I found this week as I was mulling this over:
http://www.decision-making-confidence.c ... ptoms.html
http://www.sott.net/article/268449-Empa ... t-yourself
These are excellent articles, and spot on in my experience.
I have found this quote from the second article to be quite true:
"Chronically traumatized people often exhibit hyper-vigilant, anxious and agitated behavior, symptoms such as tension headaches, gastrointestinal disturbances, abdominal pain, back pain, tremors and nausea.
Exposure to and interaction with a sociopath in childhood can leave lifelong scars. This can apply to people in therapy - and for those who in recovery trained as therapists, re-exposure as an adult can trigger old emotions and PTSD."
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That might not be such a good idea as it is only one blog post and not the entire blog. I doubt they'll do anything.
I lived with a sociopath for a time, when I was in high school. It's a long story I'm not going to get into now.
It was the worst 3-1/2 years of my life.
People with an ASD are not sociopaths. They do not have the social suavite that sociopath's do. They cannot really *fake* anything.
I suppose that a few on the spectrum are sociopaths, but then I would question if they were on the spectrum because one of the reasons sociopaths are successful is because they do not exhibit bad social skills.
They look like people others want to be around. Charming. Well-dressed. Polite. They know what to say at all times to win people over to them who they can later manipulate.
Last I checked, most people with ASD are not charming!
When you can't hide your awkwardness, you aren't exactly able to manipulate people and make them think you are something you are not.
The person I lived with was *definitely* a sociopath. I have met two others who I also suspect were sociopaths. All were extremely charming in their first impressions. I also know at least 10 people IRL with a diagnosed ASD. They are not at all the same.
Talk about armchair psychology. We think "Aspergers" is thrown around too much. How much more dangerous is throwing around "Sociopath!" People are using this term anytime someone does something they don't like or think is wrong - the person must be a sociopath! Sociopaths are SO DANGEROUS we have to be careful to not throw around this label, or else we end up in a situation like the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
Here are two links I found this week as I was mulling this over:
http://www.decision-making-confidence.c ... ptoms.html
http://www.sott.net/article/268449-Empa ... t-yourself
These are excellent articles, and spot on in my experience.
I have found this quote from the second article to be quite true:
"Chronically traumatized people often exhibit hyper-vigilant, anxious and agitated behavior, symptoms such as tension headaches, gastrointestinal disturbances, abdominal pain, back pain, tremors and nausea.
Exposure to and interaction with a sociopath in childhood can leave lifelong scars. This can apply to people in therapy - and for those who in recovery trained as therapists, re-exposure as an adult can trigger old emotions and PTSD."
Very interesting articles. The one about sociopaths targeting empathetic people throws a lot of light on 2 situations that have happened to me, in which i seemed to be specifically targeted by people who managed to pull the wool over the eyes of the others around them, making me the bad guy in the whole thing. Eventually, I was the one whose reputation was damaged by the issue--me, not the persons who initiated the problems, even though those individuals took advantage of me and lied about me. Put in the lens of this article, it makes more sense. Both of the situations, totally unrelated to each other, were initiated by people who had a history of lying and manipulating others for seemingly small gains.
I would also speculate that aspies may be more likely to be targeted by sociopaths--a.) because of their naivete; and b.) because of their truthfulness and general unwillingness to lie or sugar-coat the truth. Just a theory and i don't see anything like this in the article you posted. But when i was younger and before i learned how people manipulate and play mind games, i seemed to draw these types of people to me. It has made me very skittish of trusting anyone i don't know extremely well.
Back to topic and the original article--the author of the article posted by the OP was so far off base and clueless about the differences between aspies and sociopaths that she is nowhere close to credible. Sadly, some people will read her article and take it for truth. She does not say what she recommends for these "evil aspies." Keep them segregated from normal people? She has a lot of hate and vitriol for them but beyond hating them all, across the board, ranting about how damaging they are to other people around them--well, she really doesn't have anything helpful to say even if, for the sake of argument, we assumed she was correct in her assessment of aspies. There is just nothing in that article except a lot of bitterness.
I'm guessing that this thread must be driving a lot of traffic to that site. So, she must of disabled the comments to end the negative reactions that she was getting. Though, her comments were on moderation mode anyway, so they would had of been approved to be displayed even before.
androbot01
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I think she makes a reasonable argument. Her point is that autistic people share the lack of emotional connection that psychopaths lack and that this makes us unsatisfactory partners.
What is glossed over is the distinction between emotional and cognitive empathy. Psychopaths and autistics differ in that autistics actually do care, they just have trouble communicating it. While psychopaths don't care.
She says that this distinction is irrelevant to the experience of the partner as the result in both situations is a lack of personal connection. I would argue that motive is more important than she gives it credit for ... and further, that because autistic people do care, that there is the potential for a satisfactory relationship. It is important, however, that both partners are aware of the condition so as to effectively address the problems it creates.
I don't think that it really matters whether her personal experience is verifiable or not. If someone talks about their personal experience, I'll take their word for it. However, generalising the personal experience to mean that it must the same for all aspies is what bothers me. Even if her personal experience is true, that doesn't mean that everyone who get's involved with someone with AS will have the same experience.
I have been thinking about this more. This person is making disparaging and demonstrably false statements about people with disabilities. The myth that people with Aspergers cannot feel or express empathy has been debunked. The fact that some people with the condition sometimes hurt other people's feelings because they 'don't get it' has been conflated with a sweeping generalization that we are universally without the ability to respect or understand the feelings of others.
I might add that even the idea that 'psychopaths' or 'sociopaths' are an identifiable set of people who are universally incapable of love or moral behaviour has been challenged by neurologists and other researchers, notably James Fallon (self-identified psychopath, loving husband, son, and father, successful neurologist). This idea is the core of her personal project, which according to her own words began in early 2013 after an unfortunate encounter with someone she identified as a psychopath.
Her post about Asperger's is hateful, harmful, and morally wrong. If only there were a way to open a dialogue with her and help her open her mind a bit.
This is almost a case study in how a prejudice starts.
Imagine if the article writer had decided that negative assumptions could be made about a racial group, based on a few bad experiences with people in that group.
Noone would let her get away with that sort of rubbish. This person is in danger of becoming a bigot.
_________________
Tend to be blunt, tend to put my foot in my mouth, I am probably the smartest idiot you'll ever meet. And a bit of a cynic.
But I care. A lot.
(My username is "tongue in cheek" BTW)
Is it possible to be a psychopath and be a good person? If so I would admire that persons commitment to overcome their nature...But you would always wonder if it is real.
_________________
Tend to be blunt, tend to put my foot in my mouth, I am probably the smartest idiot you'll ever meet. And a bit of a cynic.
But I care. A lot.
(My username is "tongue in cheek" BTW)
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