Autism and Cvil Rights!

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As there are much more emotional regulation problem with Aspergers, the concern with army jobs and guns is understandable. Then sensory overload and propensity for developping a depression or mental health issues is a risk factor, too. Still, certain people on the autism spectrum feel very much attracted to the military for pretty obvious reasons and so they are highly over-represented in most armees. I see this as a problem, and even a big one. If you want people to be more accepting, you also have to get the limits clear, and not just do as if the deficits and problems play no role at all, and as if the concerns against Aspergers in certain positions come completely out of the blue. See also my other post here on why people on the spectrum make bad cops. And I could write similar posts for juridic professions or forensic experts.

You are right that many jobs would be O.K. for autistic people, in particular if people would be more patient and adapt themselves, the work and the work environment more to the particularities and needs of autistic people. There is definitely still a long way to go. Then it would be good if society makes it easier for people on the spectrum to earn their living or get a mixture out of pay and social benefits to be able to lead a less stressful life.

I would focus on a less stressful life and on making people more aware of what autism is. The latter requires something like unavoidable contact with autistic people and this is an undervalued argument for the inclusion of autistic people into the regular school and work system.

In Germany, companies with more than 20 employees have to give 5% of their jobs to special need people, at least in theory. In fact, if they are not that big they can also pay a fee instead which again depends on their SN quota and their size (e.g. for an employer with 100 employees and a SN quota of less than 2 Prozent 17 000 Euro in 2011). These penalties (half a billion Euro per year) go to companies who employ more or more severe cases of SN people. How about the regulations in other countries?

Under US Federal law, employers generally cannot discriminate against employees on the basis of Race, Sex, Pregnancy, Religion, National origin, Disability (physical or mental, including HIV status), Age (for workers over 40), Military service or affiliation, Bankruptcy or bad debts, Genetic information, Citizenship status (for citizens, permanent residents, temporary residents, refugees, and asylees) - provided that the stated job qualifications are met.

However, if an employer can prove that an employee's performance is sub-standard, then that employee can be dismissed legally. Also, given the hundreds of applications for any one position, employers can screen applicants any way they want, as long as they can prove that the persons they hire are the best qualified persons - this is called "Merit Hiring".

There's no need to fear - Pedantic Research Woman is here!

A history of mental illness cannot on it's own prevent you from owning a gun.
U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit (Cincinnati): Tyler v. Hillsdale County Sheriffs Department, 13-1876
The Supreme Court case: District of Columbia v. Heller, 07-290, 2008.

But it does preclude you from joining the Armed Services:
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corr ... 13003p.pdf (pg 47)
"c. Pervasive developmental disorders (299 series) including Asperger Syndrome, autistic spectrum disorders, and pervasive developmenta
l disorder-not otherwise specified (299.9). "

Colleges not only welcome people on the spectrum, but offer scholarships.
https://www.google.com/search?q=college ... holarships

The Military always has had the right to decide who they want and who they don't want. That has waxed and waned over the years due to their needs and advancement in scientific and medical understanding. Lee Iacocca was denied entry into the military during WWII because he had rhumatoid fever. Even then, it falls under the question of are we willing to fight for our rights (see below).

As for anything else, the question is, are we willing to fight for it? Will a lawyer we willing to assist us in that fight? Every minority group that wanted recognition of their rights has had to fight for those rights and in many cases, are still fighting today. What should make us any different? You want the right to join the military and own firearms and have been denied that right? Then start the fight for those rights. I am sure many here will back you up.

Finally, I know many people with ASD who have guns and many who served in the military. In fact, some of those who have guns, I question whether they should have them based on their actions and beliefs. Many have also had many careers that NTs thing people with ASD should not have. I have been a school bus driver (and am still licensed as such). Nothing is stopping you if you are willing to stand up and demand that society gives you a chance.

My guess is that the only way someone with an ASD could potentially serve in the military is if they haven't been formally diagnosed and are able to pass as NT. I think in the event of a draft, someone with an ASD diagnosis might not have to actually serve, so if someone wasn't willing to fight in a war, that could be a good thing.

Colleges do allow people on the spectrum to attend, and because it's considered a disability, you could use the Disabled Students Services, and some schools even offer scholarships. One advantage of the Disabled Students program is priority registration for classes, especially in one's first couple of years in college. If you're thinking about college, I would recommend getting registered through that program because it does make getting the classes you need to graduate much easier. By the time most freshmen and sophomores are able to register for classes, many of those classes they need are completely full.

But see, that's my point, they didn't know about your condition, and whether it's mental or not (and it's not, really), they would see it as a mental issue because of the falsehood surrounding Autism as a whole, and would have denied you those opportunities, and that's the point that's being made here. It's not a question of "have you?", it's a question of "would they have allowed you, had they known at that time?", and they clearly would not have by your own admission.

And how do they find out if someone has an ASD?

Because the person with the ASD tells them!



Obviously, not everyone with an ASD poses a threat to military operations and security. This is the same issue that gays in the military have been fighting, and finally won!

You have the right to protect yourself against "self-incrimination". If you can make it through boot camp, then why tell anyone? Boot camp is a process by which people are weeded out for any hidden issues they may have, so if you can keep your ASD hidden by just following whatever orders they give you, then you will have proven that a person with an ASD can make a good soldier.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that you lie to anyone. After all, that would be immoral! Let them figure things out for themselves while they're training you to kill, pillage, and burn ...

I can't join the military or buy a gun because I have been involuntarily committed to a mental health facility, I couldn't go to high school because of bullying and was homeschooled. I was removed from college for not understand social rules with little consideration into my diagnosis. Plus voc rehab is worthless and wants you to work 5 hours a week. I for one relate to what scotty667 is saying.

I feel like a second class citizens but not for the reasons above, most of thats valid, I am the last person you want to have a gun and would crack in the military. I feel as though autistic people and myself are discriminated against for having autism in the workplace and society in general. Some examples, I had a job at a store as a backstocker and they asked me to fill in for a cashier; I explained to them that job would give me anxiety due to interaction which I also stated in my original job interview and they fired me for it. What happened to reasonable accommodations? It wasn't even my job or what was expected of me? I have also been told I can't come to church for being autistic which is discrimination but legal since there is separation from church and state.

This is a legal issue then, involving a well defined issue of the greater good favoring public safety, and not an act of discrimination.

Meanwhile, those who've been officially diagnosed, who's diagnosis is in their medical records (something that both the military, and gun sellers have access to, given these laws gave them that power under the guise of background checks), deal with the reality that they're being discriminated against, not only with ignorance, but also with illegal laws that allow for it.
And that only brings me back to my original point, which you seemed to have the need to contest: People diagnosed with ASD cannot buy guns, nor join the military.

Oh, and by the way, an omission of fact surrounding your person is called lying as well. "don't tell them" falls under that category, and if they found out that you omitted the truth, they can jail you for fraud.

Actually, it's would be a lie of omission, see: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_by_omission



I agree.

Seriously people, if you haven't been diagnosed yet, and you're planning a career in Medicine or the Military, then don't go looking for a diagnosis, it will just hinder your progress and create unnecessary obstacles. Is it a lie of omission? Absolutely. But that's the world we live in. If you want something, it's not enough to just fight for it, and prove your worth.

This world loves to label everything, and in spite of laws enforcing equality, discrimination is still very relevant in our modern age. Heck, part of the reason I keep putting Autism down on my CV (Job Application) is because I know that it gives me a tactical edge over Neuraltypical candidates.

If you think that you have a prosecutable case against the federal government, then make your case heard in court. Arguing your case in a thread on a social website devoted to people with Autism Spectrum Disorders won't do one damned thing in your favor.I contest it because I am living proof that a person with an ASD can purchase firearms and join the military. Other members of this website are also examples that disprove your claim.

I hope I am wrong but I believe it gives people who do this a disadvantage and probably eliminates your candidacy with many companies. Unfortunately we live in an era of mass shootings and lawsuits when bieng a team player and networking has never been more important. If they do not want to hire you because you are different or do not want to give accomodations or afraid you will sue them, Human Resources will find a way around the laws. No matter what it says on thier job description that is what they are hired to do.

There are some companies in Tech that want the Aspie savant stereotype candidate and there are companies that will gladly pay you subminimum wage in a sheltered workshop. Hopefully this will be different in 20 years or so. I have not given up hope that things will change, But for now yeeeech.

And I agree which is why I stated I don't feel discriminated in that regard however I think we should exam why someone is hospitalized, most of my hospitalizations have been for survival to escape homelessness and drug use. Neither of which means I pose a danger with a firearm however gun hysteria has not boundaries it seems and I see gun control as inevitable. The point I am making is there is a huge difference between going to a mental hospital wanting to shoot up the place and going because of heroin overdose. I think people should recognize that, if I had a gun which I have had many times illegally, I would not hurt anyone or myself.

We're not talking about ABILITY here, we're talking about LEGALITY. The name of the thread makes that abundantly clear.

Also, I'm not making a case for myself, but even if I were it would make no difference, legally speaking there's nothing that can be done about it, civil suit or otherwise. Whether I personally would have a case or not is irrelevant, the federal government would just bury me in legal claims and settlements that mean nothing. The legality is what point I'm making here, and I'm not the only one. The legality isn't always justified, and it, by it's very nature, is discriminatory. The difference? The vast majority of people don't have to deal with it, so they don't care.

You're not living proof of the legality behind it, you're living proof that someone, somewhere (which is bound to happen) was able to scrape on past all that legal crap, either by not being diagnosed afterward, or by (in your case) doing these things years before that law even became a thought in our government's pea sized brain. It says absolutely nothing about any recent struggle, it says absolutely nothing about legality or even ability. In short, you got lucky.

Then you do perceive the futility of your meager protest. Good. Recognizing the real issue is a good first step in finding a way to solve it.So? Do you have any plans to change your own "luck", or are you going to continue to merely complain about the situation that your own "luck" has put you into?