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Territorial Utilitarianism works for me.

Least need to take part in a community, so all is by free choice. I can take it or leave it, is a good place, free association by choice.

As for building in adobe, I should have said all we have is our labor and our minds. Ctesiphon Arch, built about 2000 years ago and still standing, with no upkeep for the last 1500 years, is 120 foot wide, and 110 foot high.

This is all mud construction, with roofs made as a dome, which suits round and square buildings, or an arch, which is higher, and suited to rectangles. The tunnel form does enclose space without going too high.

The smallest is an 18" wall thickness, and an 8" thick roof. Walls can be ten times thickness high, so 18'. Both the dome and arch are within the load bearing range of the wall. Two story sections are made with a foot thicker wall, that gets a header to set a wood floor above.

Split level works as cool air sinks, so up toward the exit keeps the cool inside. The hottest places, it is still cold at night, dry air does not hold heat, so five foot down, the soil is a constant cool. A trench and tunnel, a tower with wind scoop, a bit of water for evaportive cooling, and air from twenty foot up is pushed down the tower, throught the tunnel, where the earth is an endless heat sink, and the evaporation of water cools and humidifies.

One gram/cc of water, to change from a liquid state to a vapor, takes up 547 calories of heat. More heat is lost to the heat sink earth, and as it enters at the low point of the house, you might find it a bit cold. A vent to close at night. Local humidity runs 6 to 17%.

A higher sleeping loft works as heat rises, and the heat of the day is given up by the adobe slowly. I learned this from wolves.

I ran numbers, a 25' square, 100' of wall, 10' high, is 3,000 18" blocks. A 100' of wall is also a 31' circle, so I settled on an egg, a half egg sitting on a ten foot wall. Domes do not have to be round, and this gives me a twenty foot ceiling. As all that mud has to be lifted, the space gained by building larger is lost in the labor. Higher lift and thicker roof. It is better to build several buildings for various needs.

It works in any scale, but 50' x 50' the dome might be 40' up, plus the wall.

A crew of three can make 600 blocks a day, and set 1000. A human month of labor goes into a small house. 600 square foot is a lot of space, when just living is concerned. I am looking at a start, for more can be added. I am trying to keep the starting cost as low as possible.

Desert is not sand dunes, it is brush, and 150 years ago was grassland with trees along the water courses. Cattle and people made it what it is. It has become useless, and sells for $64,000 a square mile. Roads, power, wells, windmills, add to the value, but it is still low.

What is needed is a higher and better use that imparts value, us. Just our use, not being somewhere else, is value, rent not paid. Next is what we do, our export economy. The third value is no cattle, and restoring grassland and trees.

The thin film of life has been changed by ten cows. They eat all the grass, and let the brush grow. It was grassland because grass will choke out brush, so it will become grass again, and that can be speeded up. Grass enriches the soil, holds water, checks evaporation, makes it cooler, so it rains more. a sod protects the water deep in the soil. Once started it is self supporting.

A foot of rainfall is not the whole story. The land is hot and dry, so a good deal just evaporates and is lost. The baked dry soil causes it to form globs on the surface, which when they join, runoff. Most good rain runs down gullies and is lost. Grass stops runoff, keeps the soil open, and daming gullies catches water which will add to ground water.

The local effect can be the same as three times the rainfall. Grass and trees.

The farthest out places I have found are still within 150 miles to an airport, 50 to a Walmart, and twenty to a town of sorts. It is hard to get a few miles from a paved road. Wind and solar power are coming of age. Once you have it there is no reason not to use it, and there is ground water everywhere I am looking. Solar and wind irrigation, feeding grass, would change the land.

The questions brought up by Khaldun, Jefferson, et al, were about men and economics. They are also true about our relationship to the earth. A fair exchange where both benefit. They were an explotive lot, having their slaves cut old growth forests to plant cotton and tobacco.

These lands were taken from Mexico, the Apaches were hunted down and killed for living there, and cattle were brought in. Now it is desert. There is no oil or gas, minerals worth mining, greed has used this place and passed on.

In a world of paper or plastic, kill a tree or support an oil company, my view is feed the land. most directly, the thin film of life. This place is not weak, the strong survive, and it can be made stronger. We can bring in what we need, draw water to the surface, spread our wastes, and the thin film will gather it all, and get thicker. In time it will feed us, for we will feed it.

We will also protect ourselves from being fed on by the world, while feeding on them.

It is all energy flows. Humans are good and bad, land and the film of life is good. It is a machine I understand, a true and honest friend, and something I can give the gift of several hundred pounds of Peters Trace elements and micronutrients, what the cattle have been taking and leaving with, and wake up the whole cycle. Little things mean a lot to land.

It wants you, to put up with your crap, garbage, sewer, waste water, which it will use many times. You will bring in high value food, make short use of it, and give it to the land. It stays, I can spot Native American village sites from hundreds of years ago because they are greener, the brush is taller, for they gathered and deposited.

Now we know enough to act, to spread our wastes, import more, spray a condensing mist at night laced with trace elements, and sing to the land.

Before Wrong Planet, I was not social, there has been slight change. But if you need someone to speak with the wolves, bears, land, plants, I am very good. My math, biology, and building skills are good.

I was not a human, but I found friends and teachers in life, they were not human. My goals are not human, consider me speaker for the land, for the film of life.

Come and use some mud for a while, give my people your wastes, we can learn together. The film of life welcomes you back to the great link. Together we can help the grass army cover the world.

This is not the end, there are thousands of miles of land that needs help. What we will learn can be applied broadly, and section after section will fall to the grass.

I see many things on Wrong Planet, sorrow from a world not understood, the struggle to survive that takes the joy from life, and the personal skills at learning, doing, that are so far above the ordinary they are useless. Ordinary humans block advance, learning new ways, and we must leave to reach our potential.

We need a place where, "You're own your own."

I do not see it as an end, isolation, but as a place to learn, grow, gain strength, and have a greater involvment in the world. We may move to the desert, but the world is moving to the Internet.

We have skills, and in a market economy we are allowed to sell ourselves. We could just as well teach and produce. We do make great students under the right conditions. I own some of the means of production, and would like a lot more. Offset printing and plastic injection molding are on my list.

I do not think we can have a system, we have Autism, have been told we are not human, only free people living on their freehold can make agreements. We are not equals, or even alike. Each must act where they have an advantage. It is the only way we all get the benefits of greater advantages.

You mention Barnraising, when the weavers want a weaving shed, or potters a kiln, I think they would get free support, for it would be good to have.

I do not like to cook, so anyone who prepares Chinese food, sushi, would find me adding to their support, and extra for delivery. I am out to knock down the cost of living, perhaps equal to rent the first year, then just food. By any measure we should become rich, and could afford services.

Employment based on a share of production is very different. It applies to investors and labor. It is not taxed till the asset is sold. That which happens on private property is not subject to sales tax, income tax, and labor hour exchange is impossible for anyone outside to see. That is not a factory, it is a community Center, a school, and an art form.

It does not matter if it is a few acres, or a square mile, it will be quickly paid for, developed, and then will be there forever. I would keep a house, but would not live there all the time, not now, I travel, have other things to do, but I would keep it so I always have a place to go.

If it gets too crowded for me, I will sell out to a crazy cat lady and buy the section next door. Land next to the autistic crazy cat ladies should go cheap.

I just want to ignore a better class of people.

he makes us sound like nobodies off kingdom hearts when he talks about personalities lol

HaHa!! .. Inventor!!

Too well-said!

I am over-joyed. All too good.

I understand now better what your endeavors and thoughts are. They are not so different from mine, after all.
... and why would they be?

When my boat finally sells, I can contribute up to $5,000 for land, depending on selling price. It is likely I will have to get money for the boat before it sells; I could get $15k max, and in such circumstance, could not rely on receiveing any more funds from the sale of the boat.
I like a square mile.

The sooner I leave this $2,600+/month home, the more I can save money to apply towards the purchase of land.
I could save $1,000/month under the right circumstances, which is why I thought of using the current house I rent as a launching-pad for a community. It can offer 4 separate areas for individuals, or couples, or even a family. Summer is much less expensive here; there are only a few costs.

It would be beneficial to have a temporary small community (or number of) that a good amount of funding $$$ could be accumulated before Autumn. I alone should be able to bring in at least $1,000/monthi - or more - in he Summery months here, or in another small, temporary community elsewhere. The particular house I rent is somewhat idael for this purpose, hoewever. Actually, I will write a separate post on this subject.

But I would also like electricity if it is viably available; I may make music, and need music production equipment, and like the conveniences that are sporadically used which electricity provides. I will fund the electricity, if it is possible to have and within my financial capabilities. The conveniences which electicity provides will be a community resource and asset.

More land is better, provides more resources, keeps the humans primates father away. so they can't interfere or get to 'us'. I will devise a neuro-shock system which sends out energy that triggers on the personality are of the brain; humans will be unable to pass, as they will have nervous breakdowns if they try.

In making this transition, I do not know what costs I may incur; for moving, for wind and solar energy, certain amenities, extra building expenses for other materials and labor to build a larger single-room structure. I can add the alcoves and balconies and levels and such later. But I will need to have more than what others may consider a minimal acceptable structure for a home. This thing would be somewhat palatial, and I would need to fund the 'excess'. I don't know what costs may be involved.
But, whatever the case, the next move I make will be to a home which I can call 'home' and which feels like my home because it is my home; made for my needs and not someone else's concept of my needs.

I will build large, sinking down to use materials to raise up, if that is feasible, for the material must come from someplace and I might as well use the excavation for the structure. How far down into the ground is the material useful for structure?

I must have a large volume of space; I create my own habitat within. I like trees in my space, and a stream. Again, my artist's loft was termed "Skenderian's Natural Habitat", by others. It was the natural habitat in with the Skenderian sentience lived and worked, and in which he could often be found.

I will take a place at the 'entrance' to the community. I was also called "Coltsville Security" in my artists' community - which was in the old Colt Building, where they used to manufacture firearms, and then deemed "Coltsville". I protect well, if necessary. I am a master of intimidation; I am a monolith which remains unaffected by the most powerful attacks humans can muster up within themselves. They are tiny, and provided an audience, it is very funny. Thye hurt themselves upon me always. I soothe their hurt afterwards. "They know not what they do."
That's ok; it's always been that way.
I enjoy socializing, and will deal with the human primates. I enjoy having visitors, even human primates. On my own terms, they cannot do any harm to me, and I help them see and feel better. It is all good, that way. I wouldn't want my socializing with any non-community to go beyond me, into the community.

The resources I have I offer to share, and such assets as electricity, washer/dryer, a vehicle, etc., are community assets to me, just in my name or found in my space, which I am commons custodian of. I enjoy visitors and company; I view my home as communal, and I retain a portion as my private area.
I enjoy sharing, working together, giving; I enjoy giving my care, and my hospitality; hospitality is giving care. My home is just a sanctuary for care; I make it such, and so I like to be there a lot, and an am custodian of the commons of that place of care. I have two cats; they like a place to live that is safe and non-traumatic. They live in my home and I am custodian for their well-being, as I have taken that responsibility. My home is more their home; I will not do anything or allow anything which may upset their well-being. They trust me, and stay around me; they do not venture far and have discovered that the world outside their home and without me to protect them is full of curiosity, yes, but also dangerous and harmful.
My home is a habitat for those who are unhurting and sensitive - like my cats, for instance, or me.
I had to ask one of my cats to please stop bringing moles and field mice into the home, and to please stop killing them. I show this by being unhappy with such, and in caring for the traumatized mice and moles, and placing them back outside, and blocking my cat from getting them again. No hurt, no anger; it is cat-like to do such things. But I am hurt by this, and my cats do not want to hurt me.
Occassionally, it is irresistable to one of my cats to catch and carry around a mouse, but does not harm the mouse. I suspect here is a mouse inside my home, but cannot find it. I hear little mouse-sounds, but thy stop when I get close enough to find the source.
Field mice are very precious and so adorable, and they are fairly tame, and will eat goodies from my hand when I hold them.

All seems very good and wholesome. I smile and laugh.

The land speaks and writes; might and powerful. Speaks with ancient tongue. Knows itself. Offers simple truths. One must watch one's step; the land is the land, and does not care if you are clumsy, careless about yourself, fall down, and hurt yourself. There are no lawyers in the desert; they cannot survive the Sun's sharp light. The land, like everything, is a reflection you find youself in - either you, truly, or a misconception. The desert is the land stripped to its pime, and offers up the truths about your footsteps. What gentleness exists is a gift you give youself; the desert land is stoic about the truth, and will not budge an inch about it. Do not try to budge the naked land.

I will need to fund the excess, then. 600s.f. is insufficent. My current living room is about 600sf. Much to small for me to live in, and cannot be used to build off of.


Understood completely. When I first went to publish my first monthly periodical, I knew that a mock-up was fairly useless, as that is still just a concept, and I would not be able to bring in the advertisers I wanted with a mock-up, nor show or prove to people that it really exists.
So I just put out the first issue - any first issue - and made it as good as I could.
NOW, the publication existed, was a reality, and I could now show a real, existing publication to advertisers and other people.

Making something real, however and whatever is required to just do that, makes it a true change in reality, and not just more thinking and talking about it.

Those who change reality, to whatever extent, prove to others that reality can be changed. I wrote a couple posts on AFF about a community. Perhaps I'll post one of those posts here.


Again, I really like the idea of one square mile of land.
I personally should be able to contribute at least 1/10 to this amount. $6,400 seems reasonable for me to contribute within a couple months.
If under a temporary community to accumulate funding situation, I should be able to contribute 1/5 to this amount, if purchase is by Autumn.


Haha, Walmart.
If it is hard to get a few miles from a paved road, then that says enough.


Undertood.
Can used automotive radiators be used for solar power and heating? I thought of doing this at one point; painting radiators black, placing them in boxes with glass or plexiglass tops, and connecting them together in a modular array, using radiator hoses. Radiators are free or very inexpensive, and radiator systems can contain a lot of pressure, and require no maintenence. I never looked into the cost/output viability regarding the harnessing percentage on a cost/s.f. vs yeild/s.f..
They aren't very pretty, but painting the box interior all black wouldn't be so bad. Or It could be made to look sci-fi, as like a spacecraft in a movie. I did an art project once that has some similarities; it was just whatever industrial-looking junk I could find painted prime blue with acrylic paint, set inside two curved pieces of whiteboard. It looked awesome; gallery-quality(which was what the instuctor wanted from each assignment).

Wind-energy: again I thought of used automotive parts - alternators ... and the radiator fans from automobiles. The fans aren't very efficient, however; but they should be free-to-so-inexpensive, and perhaps it might take an array of them to drive a single alternator.
Otherwise, wind generator, last time I looked (many years ago) were pretty expensive.

There are plenty of 12-volt everythings - used in boating and RV industries. Self-sufficiency is obtained in sailboats using 12-volt systems. My TV flatscreen runs off 12volts, and has a plug for a computer so it can also be used as a monitor.
There are 12-volt refrigerators for sailboats, RV's, and other boats.
LED lighting is now standard in boating.
Laptops run off rechargable batteries; more and more do so.

There is still MUCH progress to be made in this direction. I formed a company, "synaptiq", for the purposes of bring new technologies, methods, and products of this kind to market. "synaptiq" is intended to be a brand name.
We AS can work on various projects and solutions just in this field and derive immense revenues.
I need assistance in getting 'synapiq' to be registered as an LLC, and to get the tradename 'synaptiq'. I need assistance in organizing, too, as I'm very unorganized, in every way.
There are so many advancements and products for this market. We just need a business entity to interface with the world, and we only need to do the things we normally do - and we bring in $millions every year for our work which we enjoy doing ... our hobbies, our projects. We do them on our own terms. We don't need to have 'jobs' or be 'employed'.

This is easy to do; with a little help from those who can contribute what is needed, and we can have a business entity to produce and market and distribute what we create ... and generate as many $1,000,000 from doing what we do best as we want to, when we want to, in the way we want to.
We own the business. We do whatever we want.
We become completely self-sufficient.
We own our own selves.
We cease to need NT's and their "Autism Speaks" self-profiteering Organizations, cease to need NT-profittering ventures like AANE (The Asperger’s Association of New England) which has a huge NT staff, all making money for themselves - while further damaging Autistics. If you're Autistic, you can become a member of AANE ... for only $35/year. Great; what does this 'non-profit' Incorporated do for me, except steal the funding I need to make real progress?

We leave NT's behind us, and heal ourselves, and do everything the way we do it.
We make however much money we want to do whatever we want.
We heal ourselves and care for ourselves.

Before you know it, we excel humans in every way. And no ... they can't have any.

Before you know it, humans look at our civilization - which is like an advanced alien intelligence civilization they can never have - and see how much they really are human primates. I already know all of this. Once we begin the right way, the rest is inevitable. We form our own civilization on this planet. We no longer live under the thumb of humans.

Perhaps, if they are humble and ask nicely, I will fix their human civilization for them, and make the laws they really need for themselves.
But they're going to have to concede to stop over-populating this planet an destroying it - and everything on and of it, if they want Autis assistance.

Changing the land is not something I ever thought about.


I was just being bombastic. No offense meant, as I was just having fun with it and myself.


I find that protection is necessary if our full potential is to be achieved. I see the cycles which damage our potentials. I do not like them, and they cause suffering in Auts. I don't enjoy seeing and feeling that suffering.


Too funny. I glimpse what you say here. Too simple and true, and therefore a brilliant finesse.


I will enjoy the "Company of Wolves", then, too.
I will not consider you human, then ... as long as you don't consider me human, either. That is offensive to me, and I wouldn't want to offend you, either.
I understand the economics of biological energy. Although I have fixed my ex-landlord's lawn - but NOT mowing it, and am doing the same for my current landlord's lawn, I don't do so well with ficus trees and houseplants; those all die.
I worked constuction for a few years. I was then just discovering that I didn't like to think, and that it was painful to think, so I asked my boss to do all the thinking, and I just used my body to perform the tasks. Funny, because he had a below-average IQ, while mine has yet to be interpolated.
It was relieving to no have to think.
But I can build. I work slowly though. Or in productive bursts. In an AS community, we can work in such fashion as is natural to us. I can see no need for us to regulate ourselves into a de-humanized 'on/off' function as humans do to themselves, and then hate and complain about. I only have my own thing to say about this;" Stupid human primates."
Please, please; it is due time for independence from all that.

I hope that you can find the joy and satisfaction, the pleasure and fulfillment which I have found in socializing. We are each different, but it does appear to me that everyone can derive a pleasure from socializing in the way which is beneficial and pleasurable for each.



Quite an invition; unlike any other I have had, I must admit.
Ok, I will give your people my wastes, and learn together, and I'll use some mud, too.


No.


I see similar, or the same. The is much sorrow and degradation which is unfortunately accepted.
Leaving allows us to be and therefore see ourselves as we really are.

Our full potential is amazing, as I continue to discover my own ... and I see it everywhere here on WP, even in those who deny that very potential. Our potential is 'super-human' exactly. I am super-human, and been proven to be super-human by humans themselves - that they speak and behave exactly as if I am super-human. They don't use that term, however; they say things with wide eyes and dropped jaws, like "How did you possibly do that?" in complete shock and bewilderment. This happens often, and has happened all my life.

'How did I do that?'

Well ... the answer is simple; I am Autistic, and not human; therefore I can easily do things Autistics can do, but which humans are unable to do.

If there is such a thing as "ordinary humans", then there is such a thing as an 'us' which is therefore not "ordinary humans". Are we different types of 'human'? Or are we not 'human', but something else?
"Human" is true, and is precisely the intangible traits and characteristics of the mind and feelings by which humans define themselves as "human"; but if we do not have those same traits and characteristics, then we cannot be defined as "human" - even by humans.
(see www.Anthroponomy.com - which probably still only working occassionally.)
I cannot define myself as "human".
So, according to existing terms and definitions, I must define myself as "Autistic".
I may prefer other definitions for myself, but there has to be some agreement, otherwise it gets too confusing. If everyone is already defining me as "Autistic", and the term 'Autistic' is acceptable to me - which it is, and in its various forms - then I will agree to define myself publically as "Autistic".


A misinterpretion, I suspect.
I meant that humans are on their own with that statement. I meant that I will not fight them any longer so I can do the things that need to be done to help them.

I was joking a bit; whether that will be a truth I do not know. I'm not going to predict that much at this time.


Very funny.
I do not see a community as an end or isolation as the end which is aspired to, not at all. I view it as you have expressed.
I don't understand why other AS see a community as a 'dream', or as 'isolation, or whatever, in a negative light.
Those thoughts are completely opposite what the meaning and intention of any real Aut community would necessarily be.
It is a place to become fully actualized for what one really is. Over and over - endlessly - Auts prove reason to be inspired; again, even by those who object to this very thing of being inspired.


Once my basic needs are met, I have plenty to contribute - and enjoy doing so.

My giving is free, I only hope that my giving will be acknowledged and appreciated, that I may not feel and be so alone. It is joyful to feel connected; nothing is worth more than this to me. No money can purchase this - although humans with money obtain that money exactly for that purpose. This can never be demanded, nor bargained-for, nor expected; this is always given freely, and can only be given freely, and only has worth when given freely, and is only what it really is when given freely.
Others attempt to 'own' or 'negotiate for' or 'obligate others' for that which can only be given freely.
Humans do this often, as they have so much difficulty getting their real needs met - or even understanding and acknowledging their real needs.


Good for everyone here to know and see and understand.


Again, I would like to contribute as much as I can to the amount and/or quality of land. A few acres I -essentially - already have. I have a year-round stream and about 300ft of this river-frontage (it is called river in this area, but is called a stream in other areas).

Forever is the very, very important point.
Funding anything else will only return temporary benefit(s); funding a community where the real-estate is owned continues to be an asset forever and continues to provide benefit forever, and continues to give forever.

Once paid-for, it can fund more project and more communities. We end up with greater and greater independence, and more and more of us benefit to whatever extent and in whichever way we each chose to.

It is an upward, wonderful, and beautiful cycle.

As I posted on AFF, something ... anything needs to be just done. You have to step off the cliff, walk through your own doubts and fears and ... 'Just Do It'.
Otherwise, it never gets done, people tal about it in circle, and lose their belief, hope, inspiration.

It is of the most immense importance to just get it done. to change reality, to whatever extent, so it can be seen that reality is changed - and therefore really can be changed.


Haha!
But it doesn't have to get too crowded. It's really what it's determined to be. I would personally have a difficult time saying "No." to an Aut - 'yes there's room and assets and resources here for you'.
But if things go as they can, if we understand exactly what we're doing and why, then we should be able to continue to be able to provide more and fund more.

More communities I think will be desired. As I have spoken to others, there is interest for communties that are available for temporary purposes, not just for permanent living.
We Aus, Autistics, Aspies, etc., determine what our own community is.
But it makes sense to use the initial community to fund more communities. In each community, there can be room for many different people and many different aspects and many different resources to 'us'.

As I would take a place at the 'entrance' to this community - because of my preferences and enjoyments and needs, I can serve others, as my 'home' will always tend to become a community resource. My ideal 'home is the largest possible old industrial manufacturing building you could imagine. That's what I would want to buy for my 'home'. It's really a community resource that just happens to be in my name; I'm just a custodian there - hopefully not the only one - and it's just where I like to live an be and work. When I die, it become the community's; I just hold it in (oh I forget the legal term).. but for all, so nothing can happen to it. Sure, humans; try and leverage youself into this through me ... good luck. Sre humans; you can buy it for $60million ... good luck, people live here, it's their home, and you can't come in and you can have it and you can't do anything about it. I am a monolithc; you only hurt your head beating it upon me.

Ok then. A start must be done.

You, personally, just want to be left alone. I'll take a position up front, and filter as each person of the community would like. If you don't want to deal with it, I will.

You don' want to prove anything .. but yet you do want to show.

Show.

I will prove what should be proven.

I am good at protecting, and was born to it. It is one of the things that I give, and provide best, and I always tend to do it, anyway. Without something to care for, aside from myself, I'm just lonely and unfulfilled. White knights are born to serve; they are powerful in their service.

The most important thing to show is the proof that reality can be changed as desired.
You show, then, as you will.
I will prove ... as you expressed you don't want to, and want to remain unbothered.

Sounds very excellent.
yes/no???

- Sir Richard, the archetype

Hi Kleodimus,

I don't know what you're referencing to.

Maybe it makes you sound like that to you ... but it doesn't make anyone sound like that to me - seeing as I have no clue as to what "nobodies off kingdom hearts" is or might be.

you'll have to explain if I'm to know what you mean - or get the joke (hopefully).

If there's something you disagree with, you can - and I would say 'should', and I will say "please do" - speak your disagreements.

Obviously, you don't consider me ... "him" - as you refer to me ... as one of "us" ... as you refer to everyone except me.

My nick here is Archetype. You may refer to me as such, or as Sir Richard. Referring to me as "Sir Richard" acknowledges that I know what I am and am not something else, and that I know that I have earned that titular too many times in my life, and that it is very most appropriate for me - as I say it is such. I have been there, seeing my life - the whole of it. Nobody else has. I can determine what I am better than anyone. I find "Sir Richard" to be very accurate to what I am, to what I have always been since my memories as a youngest child, and to what I have always done throughout my life.

You don't have to refer to me as Sir richard if you have problems acknowledging this.

But I don't appreciate you exorcizing me as "him" vs you as "us".

I do not and will not ever accept that.

If you cannot be productive, and can only make snide remarks, then you are worse than useless - you are damaging to progress and detrimental to those who would take the responsibility to encourage, inspire, and initiate that progress with everything they have.

Given what I am doing, I am for more 'us' than you are.

The title of this topic is "Working together."

So you post on it and attempt to isolate me from the 'together' ????

Take a better look at your actions and words, and understand what is causing them.

They are destructive and only destructive.

I am a monolith; you will only hurt your head smashing it into me. Now that you have hurt yourself, I will try and show you how and why you don't have to do that anymore, and why you therefore shouldn't ... not just because of what it does to you - but what it insidiously does to your very 'us' you are so priviledged to be together with.

You cannot hurt, nor waver, nor stop me, however.
I remain unaffected, and still completely me.
I catch everything ... always.
You flail like a child against a titan. you will only hurt yourself.

I encourage you to step up and do better, because I believe you can - strictly bcause you are AS. When you do, I will be happy - I have no doubt - to call you "friend".

If you were human, I would crumple you and toss you aside. Crumple, so you couldn't be so hurtful and damaging and bullish in the china-shop of this community.

Until then, be careful. care-ful. full of care. You need to take better care of yourself. Then you won't need to be destructive to those who do not ever want to hurt you, but only encourage you to be as happy as you can possibly be.

I could use some good friends. When you are ready, perhaps we can be friends.

Archtype...."kingdom Hearts" is a video game...one I have never played, so I don't know who the "nobodies" are or what they represent...good or bad. Maybe you can goggle it but probably not worth the effort.


A side note....

About those who are afraid that such an autistic community would be "isolationist/segregationalist/escapism"...all having negative connotations as defined by our current culture. A few philosophical points about these " " words....


We are already "isolated",even when we live among. Look at your own lives and tell me that is not true. The more you are your true selves...the more you are shunned. If you wish to be a "part of" ...you mut learn to fake it and the better you fake it the more you will be invited in but...at what cost? How much of your true selves is lost in the process. You only have a certain amount of energy resources to "be"...the more you spend on being "like them", the less you have to be the best you you can be.

It is my contention that we are only a fraction of our true potentials, which will only be realized if we can live in an environment that does not demand that we "act" other then we are. This is true of NT or AS but since the community we currently live in is very NT dominated...it requires more "acting" of us. I think some have lost the ability to realize how toxic that environment is to them. Like a plant that is dwarfed by living in an oxygen poor environment thinking this is what is "normal". Normal yes, optimal for growth...no.

I can not prove to you that we can create a more healthy and "autie friendly" environment. I can only use my own logic ability and observation, that the environment I have grown up in has stunted my growth and nearly killed me. This isn't me being a "drama queen"...this is me telling my full and literal and unvarnished reality. I spent most of my life seeking death as a release from the toxicity" of this NT created environment. I have heard the same from many people here.

I understand peoples fear of the unknown. I have more fear of the known. Before I learned I was AS...I thought I would out grow this pain. One day I would wake and find that I "fit". That I could wear the same clothes, have the same interests(American Idol and Madonna, 401K's). I would no longer feel compelled to constantly explore,learn and create...."something".
It would no longer be painful to walk in lock step with the marching dead. I am 42 and I am still in pain. I did learn how not to be homeless or do some of the self-harm but I am still in pain.

You can deny your own pain. We are all at different points of the spectrum...perhaps you are "close enough" to pass and have not lost a desire to do so. Maybe you think "they" will change their dmands on you? I see the opposite. I see a society more and more NT dominated and less and less excepting of "difference". King George won two terms????


Perhaps I am dellussional, I can't rule it out. If so, I don't believe I am alone in these dellusion. I see it here in people who take chemicals, legal and unlegal, simply to survive in their current environment,(both AS and NT). To me this is proff that the environment is toxic to human life. If it were not, would so many people need some external chemical just to live in it?

We are ALREADY isolated because we are not allowed to be ourselves. What larger isolation from others could there be then not being allowed to be yourselves> Wea re not just isolated from thers...we have become isolated from our true selves.

I know I don't speak for all people on every part of the spectrum...but I think some of you must know what I am saying. I don't think that Inventor or Archtype are asking people to break from all others in society..(we want out internet )...but we can stay connected and be in a healthier environment.

Backwoods Solar in Idaho sells full off the grid systems.

12 VDC is hard to work with, transmit, thick wires, lots of loss, but rectified to 110 VAC, travels well and uses all the cheap common things. A Mexican company sells and installs the windmills, and says they will not be undersold.

I know of one large house system that ran $5,000 and has worked without any problem for years.

12" of rain is around 320,000 gallons per acre, so find a gully, build a holding tank, adobe lined with cement, covered, catch and store as much as you want. Roof runoff has been enough, and any land that had cattle, has a windmill and water tank every quarter mile.

Cattle drink 40 gallons a day, and most of the water pumped into the tanks is lost to evaporation.

Cattle are moved by truck, so a hundred might feed for a few months, that is a lot of water. 10,000 gallons per day per quarter section.

Captured, adobe beehives, covered, it is enough for people and irrigation.

Wind farming, putting up more windmills than you need, running the meter backwards, and they send you a check, at peak power rates. A mix of windmills and solar cells, a bank of 2 VDC batteries, add more for higher storage needs, can be scaled up as you go, for all the parts, are standard. It can be on top of the hill, and surplus power used to pump water up hill. No wind, clouds, run water downhill.

Digging pits in the gullies recharges the local ground water. Using a condensing fog at night to irrigate promotes a sod cover that shades and checks evaporation. Cooler land gets more rainfall, less evaporates, more sinks in, less runs off, higher water table.

Rain falls in late summer into fall, it is plenty to grow and mature a crop, in places, and with irrigation, a good crop. Many cultures have dammed gullies, redirected the water to flood fields, then planted.

This is cattle damaged grassland, that wants to be grassland again. Get rid of the cattle, trap the water, and it will change quickly on it's own.

Adobe is made with 30% clay, 70% sand, which is normal soil. We will never run out.

There are small machines that compress earth blocks, one a minute, which are denser than adobe, twice the load bearing, can be used as they are made, and being of standard size, use less mud morter, and are quicker to lay.

The amount of human labor is greatly reduced.

Five people can build a support system for fifty, and the other 45 owe labor to the project. It is all thought and labor, wealth is yesterday's sweat. A walled and irrigated garden is very productive. Small crops can be grown while fruit trees mature, or nuts, and then it is a shaded place, that produces year after year.

The basics of water, food, shelter can be met, the outer border sectioned into freeholds, 120 acres, and the center 520 everyone's front yard. That would be 200, 10,000 sq ft freeholds. Each would cover the cost of 100' of sewer, water pipe, electric line, and fiber optic cable, 150' of outer wall, and partition between the freeholds. This gives all utilities to the property line, and three walls.

Starting at the front gate, think the door in King Kong, building progresses outward, every 150" of wall makes another freehold. As the value of each freehold is set, and improvements can be figured, it can be sold, and bought back. No speculation allowed, one to a customer, but as large as you want, and the land having the right to repurchase. The land, the center 520 acres, owns it's self. It gets an income from use, and is raising people for their waste products. Only the land has perpetual being.

As the value of the land of a freehold is very low, it is a right of use, not ownership, you cannot sell it, mortgage it, or be sued for it. Only the set value of the developments, which the land has first right to. It is like a share of stock, it might be taken from you, but never from the company.

Once the freeholds are developed, gardens, water catchment, there is nothing left to trade but community service. Be rightous to one another, and the land, for a few hours a week.

For an economy, each has 199 potential customers, and the Internet. Our combined buying power gets wholesale case prices, delivered. All of our mail and UPS can be delivered to one point. We can have a bus that connects to bus lines, Amtrak, regional medical services, and picks up the mail, UPS, other goods. We are in no way isolated from the world, but it is totally isolated from us.

Sir Richard should have a draw bridge and portcullis, plus the King Kong doors.

Well said, Krex.

An honest and undeniable expression I can understand and agree with 100%. You speak for me in your post.

I was homeless, too. I like homeless people, artists, and all those funky people who don't quite fit in. I don't know if I've quite learned to be homeless yet. I live in a house, but I don't pay for it .. and I don't own it, and I don't even like the way houses are made, with tiny rooms I can't walk around in and outstrech my arms without knocking something over, and the ceilings are too low and I'm always scraping my fingernails on them when I put on sweater and things.

My professional years, in my 20's where I was making as much as my professional parents by age 24, were utterly draining. I left work each day and crawled home. Whether "I" actually survived this is just a matter of viewpoint on "what" actually survived.

HAHA ! ! Madonna and 401k; my favorite subjects .. aside from how much I identify with a sports team. Where I live, even all the woman are avidly part of a football team and a baseball team ... although those teams don't know they exist. I'm a Patriot, myself. That's my team. The all know me. I'm great friends with the RedSox guys, too. I'm on the team, and play shortstop. You can watch me on TV. I used to be with the Oakland A's ... but I traded myself.

My 401k is 86d. I 'speculated' Madonna as a homo-sapiens sociopath on Anthroponomy.com ... along with King Bush. I have to remove that; I'll cause trouble. I have to stick with speculations on dead people only.

I would say this all sums it up nicely.

Speaking of Kings...

I take the drawbridge and doors, thank-you.

OK ... things are slowly condensing into a picture.

I, personally, wouldn't want to be on the perimeter of a community ... who knows what you might end up next to? I would want a substantial buffer between myself and the perimeter. that's why a square mile is so appealing; that amount of potential buffer zone keeps the world isolated from the community.
A wall is a prison as much as protection.

Walls can be used intelligently and intuitively, to provide a security and promote your own freedom, or they can be stuck up all over the place and determine you and imprison you.

I don't like houses and apartments because the walls and rooms determine me and what I can do and where I can go and where I can locate my furnishings. Walls dictate over my freedom. I have always felt imprisoned by walls and rooms and doors.
Small rooms encased by walls with closed doors.
I am not hiding anymore in such things.
I am too vast to be in such tiny holds.
I have lived freely and safe in an open space; there are better methods of having what you need than what NT's create for their dead and thoughtless selves.

Perhaps not all people are comfortable in open-ness. Certainly, not all AS would be comfortable living in a large building and leaving their doors open while they're inside their space, or when they're sleeping, or when they're not even there.

********* FROM 'SURVIVE' TO 'THRIVE' ... COMMUNITY PURPOSE *******

Land and shelter serves me; I do not serve it.
I keep the land well so it can continue to serve me with its beauty and nature. I have never lived where the land provides anything else, such as food.
I take care of the precious land so that I can continue to appreciate it. Why destroy something you love and which helps you thrive? Obvious to all.

The community exists to serve each individual who are part of that community. When the individual must exist to serve the land and community, they are no longer free at all.

If the community cannot adjust to the individual, then there is not point in the community.

If an AS community cannot adjust to the individual AS, then where is the difference between that and the community-at-large which refuses to do the exact same thing?

For an artists' community, I laugh with all bitterness when suits purchase the last suitable building in my city, for the purpose of 'developing' an artists' community. Such can never be 'developed'. It is 'grown' by the very artists themselves. I have seen the difference. There are buildings in my city that have an 'artists' community within .. called "ArtSpace". We artists at the Colt Building viewed this 'development' when it was finished and being marketed for occupancy, and were appalled; Bruce Meisterman summed up well fro us all, as we were all rendered speechless and very disturbed by this contrivance and abomination of 'artists spaces', by saying; "The 3-bedroom units are sort of ok ... for once person."
Only the self-serving, self-marketing artists moved there. Good riddance, for real.
They must have been attracted to the title "ArtSpace; such much easier to say that what they do is, therefore, "art". It must be, if they live in "ArtSpace" ... the name says so, see?

An AS community must serve the individuals first and foremost. That is what makes it an AS community, as opposed to an NT community.

The community is created precisedly to serve the individual to the best means and extent possible. The community moves itself to serve the individual. There is nothing remaining of what can be done to serve the individual.
When the individual is properly served by the community, then they can afford to contribute to the community as they do.

I cannot support any Autistic community which does not move the mountain of itself to serve the individual.
I cannot support any Autistic community which even begins to place anything before the individual.
Adobe is a very good and wholesome purpose.
We are a far, far better wholesome purpose, and do not serve the purpose of 'adobe'.
Land is a very good and wholesome purpose.
We are a far, far better wholesome purpose, and do not serve the purpose of 'land'.

Such things as 'adobe' and 'land' are secondary - and are for those who have their individual needs met by their community which serves them ... that they might then be in such a good and wholesome place to dedicate themselves to what they each feel is most important, and which they choose to dedicate their efforts and goodness to.

But first comes the community for the purpose of serving the individual; without that, there is no point in serving else. Until I am in a good and wholesome place, I care nothing for the purpose of 'adobe' or 'land'. There are far too many specific problems and various solutions to each that I can decide what to dedicate my gifts and effort to.

I can only see directly to the prime function; the community which exists precisely to serve the individual - that they may then heal, recuperate, have safety, and have all of their needs met. From such place only can there be any thoughts about the individual doing anthing more than surviving.

When the community makes 'survival' obsolete and provides an excess of fulfillment to the individual, then those who are fulfilled can begin to look at doing more than just surviving.

I am in no place what-so-ever to begin looking at doing much more than surviving.
I do what I do to help show that more than surviving is possible.

I cannot support an AS community which serves anything other than AS as its priority. All else is disposable. The potential of AS will thrive starting with each individual. The commmunity is the exact environment for that individual thriving, and has that function as its priority.

Once the individual thrives - instead of surviving - can we look at what we might do in the world, and how we might take whatever action we might take. Until that happens, we can expect only to continue our individual survival.

I, personally, want to make 'surviving' obsolete ... and change that into 'thriving'.
I no longer wish to just survive ... I want to thrive.
The community exist for me, an individual, to thrive in; then I, an individual, can serve other than my own survival with my excess energy and thought.
Then I may decide to serve 'adobe' or 'land'. But it is likely that I will continue to serve 'thriving', and it is lkely that I will continue to serve 'anthroponomy' - for these are the contexts in which the contents of such things as 'adobe' and 'land' can be seen as beneficial and then be chosen to serve, and can therefore be truly served.
In such way 'adobe' and 'land' can be best served. By more and more individuals who decide to serve that.

But, Inventor, you ask for 'adobe' and 'land' to be served by AS now. The AS community does not exist to serve 'adobe' or 'land'. The plans you speak of are about serving 'adobe' and 'land' foremost, where 'AS' exists to serve such.
AS will decide to serve 'adobe' and 'land' when AS no longer survives, but thrives instead.
Then you may ask of AS to serve 'adobe' and 'land'. Then you may state the global import of such. Those individual AS who agree with you will make their own decision.
One square mile of land is not what AS serves. That is a good thing to serve, but is insuffient to take precedence over AS, and insignificant by comparison.
The AS community s not a 'land' or 'adobe' experiment.
Land and adobe exist only to serve AS thriving.

This is a crisis of 'survival'. This crisis needs to be solved before we solve anything else.

I can see no other point or reason for an AS community.

Inventor, I understand and cannot disagree with your endeavor. But I cannot support that if it supports anything other than AS thriving. The land exists for us to thrive on it, not for it to thrive on us. We only take care of the land so we can continue to thrive on it. There is no other function. Especially at this time in history. If the source is not understood and addressed, then no problems will be solved and there will be no progress. Circling the source and never addressing it IS the exact and only problem that needs to be solved. Once that problem is solved, all others can be solved from there.

No more 'survival'. Thriving is our necessary goal. We form community for this precise purpose only, and for this process exactly.

There is no other purpose or process that addresses the source. 'Land' and 'adobe' to not address the source; the source - once solved - addresses 'land' and 'adobe'.

I ask that you reconsider the source. No fitting AS into predetermined boxes. No fulfilling the function of land or adobe placed ahead of the function of AS thriving.
I do not like the plan you propose; it is good for land and adobe, but not good for serving the thriving of AS. It does not serve my thriving. If everything is not for, of, by AS, then such community is not for, of, and by AS.
The AS community does not exist to expend energy on land or adobe, nor get caught up in such things.

The AS community has one purpose; to end AS surviving and serve AS thriving - and to continue onward to end suffering and actualize thriving. It has only this precise function; all other functions come afer this function is fulfilled.

The AS commmunity exists to serve AS only. From the AS community of thriving then comes the other serving. As each individual leaves behind surviving and embaces thriving, then each individual can make the best decision on what they may now wish to serve with their own gifts and energy.
Inventor; you are proposing a community which deters this, which community asks AS to serve other than AS thriving, and to serve land and adobe, instead, and to solve the problems of land and desert and adobe, instead. Instead of solving AS suffering and surviving.

You ask AS to serve land and desert and adobe ... instead of AS serving AS thriving and health. You ask that AS to serve yet more survival ... survival in the desert ... when AS must serve AS thriving - not desert thriving.
The AS community does not exist to expend its energy, thought, and resources on how desert can survive, or on how AS can manage to survive in the problem-filled desert. These are not the problems an AS community exists for to solve. These problems interfere, displace, mis-direct, and exhaust the energy of AS, that the real problem is not ever addressed.
The real problem must be addressed ... now.
Each day suffering and survival continues. This is the real problem. This is the real AS community and why it exists.
Anything which detracts from this real purpose is detrimental to AS community and AS.

What you propose is something that catches the intention and energy of AS into trifle of land and adobe, into figuring out how to survive in non-hospitable habitat. No more 'surviving'. This is counter-productive, and misdirects the entire purpose. You say you like problems; yes, but problems are not solutions ... they require solutions.
Keep in mind the real and true problem; AS survival and suffering.
Keep in mind the real and true solution; AS thriving and health.

Me with social blindness? Yes.

Face blind too.

The mechanical I can deal with, Air, Water, Food, Shelter, Power, Wastes, Evaporation.

That has a cost, money or labor, and can be measured.

Economics has a varied outcome, there is no equality. I can make a system rich, but not a person.

I can remove obstacles, but not cause a person to thrive.

AS is a lack of Social Involvment. There are other traits, but that is the main issue.

So I design with the least social content, and the most long term survival.

You will notice, I have a very clear vision of land, adobe as a means, setting it in the direction of constant improvment, where it is paid for, productive, and needs little upkeep.

Social Planning is not for me. I have no idea what others are doing, seek, or how they interact, AS leaves me mind blind.

Plants I understand, meeting it's needs for survival, reducing limiting factors, and then it can thrive, but if one thing is lacking, it may exist, but will never thrive.

Even with equal conditions, some plants will thrive, others wither. User results may vary.

The idea that the Earth, Water, Air, Plants, Animals, and People exist to be consumed to serve some higher meaning, is what got us into this mess. Giving one minute of my time to those with AS or anything else, would consume my entire life. I owe the world nothing.

You are speaking of a Religion, a Faith Based System, and I have no faith.

The first step of my twelve step program is I do not have one.

My view is everyone will die. It will involve suffering. Many will suffer through life never finding any joy. Some will find some, others more, and as The Buddah said, "Desire is the root of all suffering."

Asking for what no one can give, and you cannot find on your own, is asking for suffering.

All enlightment is personal. No person or community can give it to you.

I am a Social Minimalist. He who rules least rules best.

I agree with the first rule of medicne, "First, do no harm."

Forceing social engagment on AS is doing harm. It is our leading cause of suffering.

AS is defined as a social disconnect to the point where it becomes a disability. Lack of eye contact, special interests, are just bonuses.

Each a Culture of one. A community of recluses.

An afforadable support system, and not imposing upon your neighbors, or them upon you.

We are a people of boundries, who like things defined. Growing grass, crops, where the neigbors are cows, fence it or lose it. Open surface water will be churned to mud and filled with manure. Good boundries make good neighbors. Moving to the center adds four miles of fence, 20,800 foot. Fences do not block the wind and slow evaporation.

Posts and wire are a cash outlay, adobe is local labor. This adds $50,000 to the cost.

Adobe also provides house walls, yard walls, more shade and wind shelter. All this still has to be built.

The design of a perimiter wall means for one more 100' wall, and an arch roof, 2,000 sq ft is enclosed.

To build the same free standing would take another 140' of wall.

The center is the watershed, something to protect. It produces oxygen, and humidity. Most towns are heat islands, hotter than open land. Some places like golf courses are cool islands, 9 to 12 degrees cooler than the open land. Cool lowers evaporation.

In cold climates walls hold in heat, in hot climates they block it out.

The building plan of hot lands reduces the midday heat by 20 degrees or more, and it is cooler yet in the house.

Cool lands get more rainfall, and less evaporates. It is a cloud milking station.

I am a Dune Fremen about water.

The land will out last us all, we serve it, good or bad. It is not what you take, but what you leave behind. Adobe walls and houses will last 1,000 years.

A person is less than the earth, a person is but a moment in time.

I do not see this as serving AS, whatever that means, I am not good with such concepts, but as a model of caring for the land which should spread.

People are only a side issue to me. One of my special interests.

I know that in all the places where they live to become very old, happy and in good health, have good water, plain food, and are very quite. Where the sound level, a big AS issue, is a village equals one refriderator running, the children play quietly, even dogs bark in a whisper.

If you want to subject others to loud music, and discuss how the AS community can help you thrive, rural life is not for you.

I have spoken with one of my neighbors, twice in the last few years, I do not remember his name, and would not know him if I saw him somewhere else. That is the reality of AS. I only spoke to him because his little house dogs got out, and were in the street.

I deal with people by email over shared special interests, rarely in person. I make my living on the web, go to the post office twice a week, and do not know the name of the person behind the counter.

I do not share an identity with the face I see in the mirror, it changes, but the eyes seem familier.

They say it has to do with Mirror Neurons, but fail to explain what they mean, so it might as well be String Theory. Quantom Mechanics made more sense, the sudden phase change to a higher energy level. And the uncertainty of it all.

I can only deal with my world, where things are measured. Such concepts as community, thriving, have no meaning to me. Living space, I can measure, water, basic need and equal oppertunity, but I do not need people in general. I do need water, food, shelter and Internet. I do what I do to get it, often annoying, and seek a better deal.

I work for what I want, not for anyone else. I see an economic community based on an improving freehold. Land I can make thrive. I live in a community, run by suits with mob connections. I want to leave. I want to cut out the middle men. I did it in my business, I buy wholesale, manufacture, and sell to the final customer. All of the profits I generate are mine.

I am economic and mechanical, it works.

In economics when inflow exceeds outgo, you get rich. Land is either getting better or worse. When humans stop producing waste they should be burned and the ashes spread over the land. That is only because of dumb laws, a shallow pit and a tree planted would be a better use.

The only reason I want them is they are great waste producers. Cattle are too, but they eat grass and harm the land. My deal is with the thin film of life, and the water economy. The land will be here long after you are gone.

Ranching humans for waste production is it, and contented stock is best.

This is like plants producing flowers to attract pollenators, they do not care what the bees think, or how their hive runs. Plants have no use for honey, but can use dead bees. All bees die, but it is in the best interest of the hive, all future bees, that the plants thrive.

Archtype....I'm missing something to understand you but I'm clueless as to what it is...some code breaking stone?

Who serves what and who...If you force me choose between people with AS or the land...I have to go with the land. I have a clue which is better at supporting me,(Solient Green is people ), I prefer broccili. I will serve the land and the people who feed the land....when we start seperating ourselves from the environment we are doomed. WE ARE the eco-system. We need it more then it needs us, best not to piss it off

Inventor...you do have "faith"...in logic and systems and the history of peoples and observation of what has worked and what has failed and your own ability to untangle the mess. I only understand a little of this but also have faith in these principles. I can't do the math but have a strong back and am not afraid of sweating. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Nature abhors a vaccum. Some truths are self evident....others take a bit of working out.

Inventor; understood.

I do not disagree with you; I merely think it is not yet time. I think it needs to be time. There is a place for everything, and everything somehow needs to actualize itself.

For those who wish to serve the land; that is not a bad thing at all; we are meant as the custodians of the land, in my view; the consciousness of the land and all it produces.
In the future, slow marble statues will browse the library of flora, and mend browned and curling leaves with their gentlest stone hands.
Is is not quite the future yet, and I am not the stone god in my alcove of nestling branches, where the grass raises to brush my calves, and I, presiding over the orchard valley, see only with intuition, just ahead of each moment. Then I shall live stilly for one thousand years.
But that is another me, beyond this world we know and live within.

I am the consciousness of earth;; I am bred from its very womb. I awoke from the myth of humus, and I speak its language aptly. I am a woodsman.

I ran the river gullies swifter than a deer in any field; the rocks and stones themselves instruct my feet. They called me 'a faerie dancing in the woods' - those who marveled at my unguised bright and brilliancing elven-steps, for not a stone over-turned, and yet swifter I sprinted lightnessed and mindlessly deft.
I was applauded by leaves and consorts of delighted sunrays.

I do not longer think; it is a bad habit, twice-removed.
I see with intuitions broadcast to me from the legends that call and yearn to know themselves through my native proximity.

But that was then; and the future is five hundred year's hence. I was an elvenkind, then I shall be of silent and knowing granites.

Now I am just a stupid man. With achievements to fight for, and lost within my own frustrations.
I feared once that I would lose myself; now I have forgotten how.
On particular days I can remember the past, or the future; but now is pressing on my mind. I cannot now enough, no matter how hard I try. Now has passed and another is here to mock my own discordance. It floats away, to where I used to remember being.

The desert is no place for woodsman elves dancing with deer and water, nor granite statues in alcoves kissed with berries and dandelions.
I shy with the birds, and once was an unknown creature to myself, who spied on peoples walking a waterfall's path. I slipped from brush to bush, and hid among the branches and curiously noted their passagings. They spoke in high voices as if noosed about the neck, and laughed while stumbling their feet on the ground. I may have had instincts of fur about me.

Be with measurements and known boundries; someone has to be. I die in there, after wilting for a year. I was attached to computer once, engineering robots to crawl in radio-active sewers. I wilted there, after a year; beneath unforgiving light, walled by cubicles everywhere struck up on the floor of an office.

Play with mud, and give your people your waste. Your history will be known for one thousand years - to the kindly pale statues that slowly roam and groom your drowsy forever forest. In five hundred years, time will remember to shift into neutral.

Hi Krex;

I am not understandable, even by me. I cannot be understood, nor grasp myself. I am always more than I suspected, when I look. I am 'everything', but that must always unfold randomly with time - for I do not always recall how to think - and 'everything' is not very understandable. I do not know what to expect.
I appear to speak in many languages; some I know, others I am unfamiliar with. I sang in tongues the other day for hours; I was not expecting that to happen, nor do I know where the songs came from, nor exactly what I said. But the songs used me, anyway, and I was exotic'd with gift and wonderfulling.
Yesterday I was a madman, launching myself against the world.
The day before, I was a businessman for a while.
The day before I sang in tongues.
I don't know what else to do, and have forgotten how.
I am far beyond all meaningful salvage.

I sprout utopias, but have no roots.

I am 99% archetype, the remainder is me; whatever it is.

These are the stones that break me.

I thrive on consciousness. The tress are dimly; it takes seasons for them to know me. Humans are not a good source of consciousness; all clogged up, conflicted, disparative. Noisy, chaotic, and hysterical consciousnesses.

I don't force a choice, but only spoke and inquired. Inventor already mentioned he has nothing to prove, and only wants to be left alone, unbothered and undisturbed. He does not understand my meaning; that is ok; his is fine for him.

The eco-system will not survive, unless I alter the inevitable.
Not yet 10% of the populace can save the eco-system.
Not 25% of the populace can save the eco-system.
Only 100% of the poulace can save the eco-system.

This is why I say it is not time, yet. One square mile will reclaimed will destroy the entire planet.
By thinking that you are saving the earth, you will destroy this planet.
The scale has tipped; only a full-out effort to raise all consciousness can save the eco-system.
This must happen immediately.
The worst is yet to come. We have only seen the beginning.

When resources run out, the eco-system will be stripped entirely.
All the forest and wood will be burnt for fuel.
All the fields will be barren and dead.
All creatures will be hunted and killed.
Hunter will shoot hunter for the game that was won.
Neighbor will kill neighbor for the last can of tunafish.
If you are still alive, then you have food; that is your death-warrant, since ravaging gangs will kill you for your food.
Diamonds and gold will be worthless; one round of ammunition will be priceless and unpurchasable.

The eco-system is already destroyed, unless I change that destiny.

I cannot understand why no-one else can see this simple fact.

I cannot understand why Inventor cannot see this simple fact.
He can speak of the cannibals after the fall, yet not see that only the desert itself will survive; the desert needs nobody - it is desert.
The land of adobes will fall under the hands of ruthless Texan barbarians.

He cannot hide from mankind in the desert; the desert is mankind's legacy, and will win. But he is 61, and will not see the extra 19 years that you will see. But even you will not see all of them, either.

We have killed the eco-system. It is not stopping; it accelerates every day. Deceleration will not stop it.
Deceleration will only occur after it is far to late, after it has to be mandated by force; such is the inevitibility of human legacy.

I cannot understand why those who want to save the eco-system, the planet, any piece of land, do not see that everything must be saved, by everyone, immediately.

I cannot understand how no-one can understand the simple concept that ALL people must be raised in consciousness, immediately, and that there is no other option ... only false hopes and denial of terror.

One square mile.

will not cause rain - while the rest of the South is stripped even further ... and not just one square mile of it, but regions.

One square mile.

cannot overtake the expansion of ecological destruction capitalism needs to escalate.

One square mile.

is not safe. is not far-enough away. its walls will not hold back the marauding bands of salivating human primates, as wave after wave pass through, surviving.

There is no escape. There is no hiding. There is no hope that 'things' will pass by.
The survivors will not be Aspies in a desert. The survivors will be killers in the last of the fertile land.
Everyone else will kill everyone else, then starve.

So I will be one of the killers in the last of the fertile land, since there will be no AS community as is required to save the very eco-system you will destroy by not addressing the real problem; huge, terrifying, and real.

We are on this planet, as it is, for real.
You are already separated from the land and eco-system; you just cannot see this yet.

It is still being destroyed, and an accelerated pace, and will continue to be ... until it is too late. Humans cannot stop themselves. They never can, ever.
If we do not, no-one will.

... and I can see that 'we' will not. So I now become "I" again .. and not 'we'.

I created the science of anthroponomy to save this planet from human ignorance. But everyone 'disagrees' with that science, and they place their moralities ahead of the survival of this planet. This is typical, and why I ever thought otherwise leaves me as an idiot having less than my 220+/- IQ.

There is no hope.

You buy solar panels; I will buy the gold of the future, the survival of the future ... ammunition - to kill you with and take your food, and charge my batteries, and fill my tanks.

I will not take up residence in the desert; I will take the last of the fertile land, when ammunition buys everything, since everyone else has run out. If it is not me, it will be those intelligent and clear enough not to tell themselves big lies about how saving one square mile is saving the eco-system.

I invest in ammunition. That is all I need. I have one thousand rounds so far. I am most proficient with all edged weapons. They are re-usable on most people. I kill strategically, and take their ammunition ... more than I need, exactly what others need.
You build adobes; I build weapons that puncture stark reality through such things as adobe walls.

It will be survival of the fittest; and I have no question that I am most fit to survive. I know where to relocate. It isn't in the desert. That's one reason why I am most fit to survive.

Beautiful poetry in the first part of your post, thanks for that.

Mad Max...
Survival of the fittest to kill, isn't even a world I have ever been interested in surviving in. I'm just here killing time until time kills me. Genuies or not, you wont change human nature or be able to kill them all. I made peace with that because the alternative was suicide.

My pleasure that you appreciated it. I was a poet that day.


I wouldn't expect or want you to.
I can survive in such a world ... so you don't have to. You do not carry a rifle; you continue to thrive and do as you do, and I take care of everything having to do with keeping them away from you; I was born to it.
I would never want to see someone like you - who obviously do not want to survive in such a fashion - having to survive in such a fashion, nor do I enjoy seeing the kind of survival which is currently typical.

There is no need for you to tell me that you do not wish to 'survive' - in any world; I do battle exactly so you do not ever have to.

There is nothing greater for me to do. I have always done that. I have always placed myself between the injustice and ugliness and the innocent and beautiful.

I am powerful and fearless.


I cannot change human nature, no; nothing can except Nature - and Nature does ... with us.

But I can change human understanding and perception, and therefore their behavior. I created Anthroponomy to do exactly this. Opinions cannot accomplish that, hard fact is the only way to accomplish that. Somewhere, you must always start with a 'given'; that 'given' is never a fact, it is always a theory. It is accepted as a given, as a self-evidence, because it mirrors reality.

People do not like Anthroponomy because they do not want it to be true. Anthroponomy is my very best at determining what is true ... regardless of how I feel about it. It has nothing to do with what I want to be true. If what I wanted to be true were true, there would be no need to create Anthropnomy, no need to 'survive' in any way, and I would be thriving instead of wanting my own life and the world around it to change.

First, I determine exactly what the world around me is.
Then I know what I want to change - and how to change it.

This is exactly logical, exactly obvious, makes all sense, feels correct, and I cannot see how or where there can be disagreemet with it.

Anything else accomplishes nothing.

I cannot kill them all. They will kill themselves.

The point is to either change that inevitability ... or to very simply not be around when they do destroy themselves.

That is one of the purposes of the AS community; to work toward that. Both to do everything possible to change the world, and to make sure we're not around when the world slaughters itself ... since it is improbably, I believe, that we will change the world, and should therefore make all provision that this will indeed happen. But regardless of improbability, we have to try, since there is no guarantee we will be able to survive the world when it destroys itself.

Bit it looks like we would be able to remain essentially uneffacted. I doubt nuclear arms would be used - those in the position to use them know that they, themselves, would not survive the outcome.
In that light, it is far more likely - in this age of of cmmunication - that those in power would use that power not to destroy each other, but to unify together and create their own world - and use their power to keep the world out. The President and those in power in the USA are not going to go to war with those in power in China; instead, they will cooperate together, and protect themselves from the world. Those in power will not kill each other for the sake of the common man; they will renouce the 'common man' and create their own world to survive - and thrive in - while the rest of the world destroys itself.

That is the most intelligent thing to do, and the only way those in power can or will survive - and continue to thrive.

They will do this ... but we will not?
Those in power will create their own world and keep the rest of the world out - so that they can survive and prosper.
But we will not?
They are smarter than us, after all?
They have no falsity of morailty; they will survive and eat their cake and caviar.
But we will have falsity of morality ... and we will join the rest of the world in surviving?

I am trying my best to show 'us' what is real and how to not just survive - but to thrive and prosper.

I meet arguments.
I am attacked because of symantics.
Everything I say is considered 'bad' ... and I am considered 'bad' for saying them - as if I chose this and wanted this to be real.
I didn;t choose it at all!! !
I was born into it, and I have been left on my own to figure it all out.
I am still on my own, even after I have figured it out - and everyone shakes their head and talls me how they don't want what I say.
Of course you don't ... but it doesn;t matter what you want. Unless you accept the truth about reality, nothing will change - so what is the purpose of even trying?
To make yourself feel better?
I don't care about people's personal philosophy; their philiosphies will not protect them from reality.
I don't care what you, Krex, persoanlly believe; your beliefs that you prefer to have will have not effect at all against the reality you place your beliefs over.

I have been accused of wearing "rose-tinted goggles". That is absurd. I am not even wwearing glasses, as my sight is 20/20, and my accuser is ewearing rose-tinted goggles, pretending that things are not the way they really are.

Someone else disagrees with me because they 'see themselves as part of the whole, and that everything is connected' and go on to say that 'they view similaries instead of differences'.
Those are rose-tinted goggles, eif I've ever seen them.
Sure, you tell that to the gang of human primates who are killing you for your last can of condensed milk. I'm sure they will see the light, and stop killing you, and share the last of their food with you - because, after all, we're all similar.

Over and over again, I am accused of exactly what every accusor is, themselves, doing.

I am only stating what is true ... folkd ... not what I want to be true.

If you want to know what I want to be true, I can tell you; I would like a beautiful world in which all people are fully empathic, where we are the gentle and loving custodians of all that is this planet, where we are radiant with life and fullfillment and joy, where we are all connected beneath the surface, where we need not even speak - since we are all exactly the same and there are no differences between our essences which we are all fully conscious of.
I'll take that world over the world I describe as real ... anytime now.

But what I want to be true has nothing at all with what is true and what will be true. It can be true ... in about 500 years; provided we are still existing.

I don't know why you, or anyone, would argue with this. Perhaps I am not explaining myself adequately. I see everything very clearly, so I may not be explaining the things I see that are obvious to me.

There is no separatism between us; any separatism does not come from me. There is one truth and only one; anything else is what we want to be true, instead. I am not separate from this truth; but everyone else seems to be.

You, Krex, have no urge to live in a Mad Max world of survival. So you deny what I say as true.
By everyone denying the truth, you create the very reality you argue against ... but that will become. By you, Krex, saying that I am wrong because you don't want to live in a Mad Max world, you make that Mad Max world inevitable.

What we want to be true can be true, but only if we understand exactly what we want to be true - and this also requires understanding exactly was it true - and from there, and understanding that 'what we want to be true' can be true only if we take the precise necessary actions to make it true.

I don't see any purpose in anything else; anything else is only more of the same ... the same misunderstanding of the truth, the same circularity, the same working to accomplish nothing, the same creation of more problems, the same complete ineffectivity in the face of the truth, the same lack of addressing the truth - and so the same "waiting" for "something" to happen ... and so the same increasing destruction which is the truth remaining unaddressed.

I am that something which everyon is waiting for and that is happening, right noe ... so there's no need to wait anymore.
When I say that, people accuse me of being a psycho-narcissist.
But that's only what they want to be true; it's easier to say that then to actually DO SOMETHING NOW.

I don't ask you to survive in a Mad Max world ... I ask you if you would like to thrive in a better world we have created for ourselves - while humans survive and kill in a Mad Max world they created for themselves.

I simply state:

1) This is the world as it is, as humans have created for themselves to survive in.
2) It appears that we do not like that world, nor do we agree with 'surviving'.
3) Therefore we create our own world so we can thrive in it
4) We keep 'them' out ... so it remains our world in which we can thrive. If we let 'them' in, their nature will be to destroy it and make it a place to 'survive' in.

I, alone, can only survive in a Mad Max world; but we, together, can create our own world and keep the world of 'survival' outside of our world of thriving.

Is there anything you see as incorrect about this?

It is very simple for me to see, and it is very obvious to me because I see it clearly. Am I not explaining something correctly? I cannot understand why there would be any disagreement about this.

OK.

I keep trying to check out your anthroponomy site but it wont load, so I can neither agree nor disagree with your truth.

So here is my truth. Humans are parasites. We take and offer the planet nothing back that any sh*****g/dying animal could not provide. The earth can and will save itself when we are gone or low enough in numbers to do no large damage. With a few natural disasters it maybe able to shake us off without our assistence. Time is on it's side. Can humans evolve(or have they in us) enough to survive in peace with the planet ? Maybe, if our numbers were reduced but we already have enough weapons to do lot of damage and enough insanity to use them. If we hade our numbers down by 10% there would still be some crazy person who could figure out how to launch those weapons. Perhaps the planet could even heal with this and time...


I never meant to claim we were going to save the planet or change the eco-system by living in the dessert. I just thought it would be healthier to be away from toxic humans as much as possible. Are there better locations? None that I can afford. I have thought it would be interesting to join a survivalist group but the only ones I know of seem to be Nazis or religious, so I probably wouldn't get along well with them. If there was such a place for aspies, I would check it out.

My inability to survive in a mad max world has nothing to do with morality as I see morality. I'm not sure I even understand that word, so maybe I'm wrong. My objection is just that I don't believe (and I could be wrong, I have survived a lot), that I have the personal strength to kill. I'm more rabbit then wolf. I don't know that for sure unless I was cornered...sometimes I think my beast is not buried that far below the surface....Some days feel like I am nothing but claws and teeth, perhaps that is why buried it? What if I liked it? Mostly I think seeing something suffer hurts more then suffering myself. I'm very unclear about this and hope I don;t have to find out as either would mean pain.


Anyway, I think you have the impression that I think your wrong. I don't know enough to know what is right...I'm still learning.

No disagreement here. I see the same.

Water lillys grow in a pond, slowly their numbers double, they take over more and more. Each doubling is faster than the last, and one day the pond is half filled. It wil fill it's boundries, all food will be used, and it will try to double again. It will grow, and starve, and there are no new ponds.

In the last oil crisis wood stoves made a comeback, and that which would burn was burned. Smoke hung over suburbia. firewood bandits went forth and cut trees on land they did not own, and fence posts. To save the forests, they were cut before they could be stolen. People were burning tires and railroad ties, getting heat any way they could. From loss of habitat, and bandits in the woods, the deer were killed.

People had money, they could buy stolen wood, but this time is different. That clear cutting started a drought which continues, it has pushed ranching onto what was grain land, and other grain is now an industrial chemical, ethanol.

The pond is full. Food is mostly an energy cost, and the price of energy went up ten fold. There will not be a can of food to fight over, it will all be eaten in the first week. The trees that will be cut this year for next winter's heat will change the land, and spread the drought. The price of grain is up 50% to 70% worldwide this year, and next?

Food supplies, and National Guard armories, will be looted. This will stop the flow of food and energy coming in. As soon as next winter with no food or fuel?

In the New Orleans flood the only thing of value was bottled water. 1500 died from lack of water, in a week.

Nature is getting ready to do it's part. Over thousands of years you could set your watch by the New Madrid Quake, every 200 years, and it is a big one. It is right in the middle, and all food, oil, gas, power, flow through there. It is starting up now, and will lead to a big one that the last continued for months. Waterfalls formed in the Mississippi, in places it ran backward.

Crops will not be harvested, stored, transported, and we have no surplus stored. Imported at a price, will take several months by ship. Road, rail, barge traffic will cease. Just restoring power might take a few years, and you have to wait till the ground stops shaking.

It will be the beginning of Winter, and suddenly, blackout over the East Coast, with no food or fuel coming in. New York will be out of food in three days. The water will stop flowing, all depending on power and computers. I doubt they will last till New Year's.

Those who get out will overburden every support system, and those who stay and survive will be the cannibals. The wealth of the world will become frozen when Wall Street goes dark, the major banks. Two and a half years later New Orleans is just as it was when the water was pumped out.

I do keep bottled water, MRE's, and a backpack. I could get several hundred miles. There is not much around here. I got out before the flood, had cash, and bought food and gas. It took six weeks to get back home. Everyone became unemployed in a day.

We were 500,000, and the rest of the country was still running. There was water, food, gas, a hundred miles away.

The land is fragile, but tough. Human economy is just fragile. The last lilly is blocking the last sunlight that kept the pond alive.

Mad Max was a movie, where did the food, water, fuel, spare parts come from? They will be on foot, and cannot survive more than a few days from water. The desert has high water needs, and few can cross it.

The Mad Max farmers could not have fed a tenth of their population. It was a movie set.

Those who will die are called customers. Without markets people do not produce. What is produced will be for export, people who can pay in oil.

The Black Death increased wages and lowered costs. There were houses and lands for the taking. Higher wages lead to developing technology, to afford higher labor. Property values dropped so wealth could be invested in improving the lands. The Fifteenth Century was much better than the Tenth.

I see this like the Plague, which came one winter, and killed half the people. By spring it was gone, and those who wintered in the country came back to find they could have a much better house and lands. The land lay fallow, and gained fertility, the catte ate and grew.

I had a place to go when New Orleans flooded, and I did come back. Those with no place to go are still gone, starting over somewhere else. 250,000 gone forever. 100,000,000 gone forever would be better.

The desert is a fight with excess energy. Water is the key ingredient. Only those who know where the water is can travel the land. Only those who know where they are going can get there. You cannot besiege a desert town without water, and no one on foot can carry much. Defenders have a natural three to one advantage, and more so in hostile country. Attackers have to get in, defenders only have to wait.

Some need a full time home, and would put up with the summers. Others would like a winter home, where it is warm and sunny, and still others, a place to go when it all falls apart. Still others, and the same as above, would want an investment backed with basic value. Housing is not good, comparing the market to the devalued dollar, the market is way down, and falling. Raw land is useless, developed land is not.

Developed land has value added that will keep it's value up, no matter what the economy. it is disaster and depression proof. Both the value in the land and in what is built is preserved to investors and builders. It will take energy to start it, but after a couple of years, the main increase is the land responding to care and water.

Where costs are quickly recovered, capital is invested in the land next door. It is close to production and labor, and has one wall built. Our income is use, it costs to be anywhere. So it comes with a built in income that recovers cost, and expands.

This is planned for a Freehold, paid for, but there is nothing to stop anyone from buying their own land nearby. I am sure there would be community support for the idea. Where there is value the surrounding area gains value, and what will this be worth in ten, twenty, fifty years?

I am going to almost retire, leave but keep working. An acre is large to me. Those who can bring their income with them can do well. People on Social Security will be rich. The rest is up to the people. Some want seclusion, some work, business. A low cost base with potential support, others who are looking for work, and it is an economy.

I bring money from out in the world to me, and I have nothing to spend it on but more means of production. The problem is, I have used my time, to the point where I am creating employment.

To rise, you must bring up those around you.

I am the lilly pond, my world is full, I must make someone else a lilly pond, and us two more.

The saying, "There is always room at the top." is very true.

I enjoy working, it is the best thing I do. Social isolation does not mean economic isolation.

We are alone in a crowd, but there is a crowd of us.

I too think you write well.

Howdy, Krex

Arrgh. I do have to get a new host. The webpage that is up is only rudimentary, more of a placeholder, and it isn't in proper sequence. I don't think it says too much more than I've already said.

Understood, and agreed.
The only questions that remain are the questions you asked.
If the eco-system/biosphere goes into a positive feedback loop, it will be disasterous; to what extent - unknown.


Understood, and agreed.


Understood. "Morality" is a very difficult word; I have my own concepts for it, and specific scientific definitions.
There is no consensus on what 'morality' means; no-one can define it, which is why I have. But my definition needs to be well thought-out, and needs to be agreed upon in order to use that definition. Otherwise, people are speaking different languages.
You're not alone; nobody really knows what 'morality' is. So, you can't be wrong, as it's up to personal interpretation. That's a problem in itself.


I have never killed anything (except some insects). I don't know what it would be like. I'm sure I cold kill to protect myself and others from being killed, however. I wouldn't be going pillaging, however; one of the reasons to form a community - so that is never a question.

Understood.
I present my lifetime's culmination of work for your perusal. It's valid if you find it valid. I can answer questions about it. Although I haven't yet place it in a concentrated format.

Hi, Inventor

I understand, from your previous-to-last post much more about you, as you defined your perceptions. You are very unique, and view the world - and yourself in relation to the world - fundamentally different than I view the world and my relation to it. It's immensely interesting how you are so different than I, that you don't recognize people as I would .. and such ... which I would normally see as very handicapping - but that I am far more 'dysfunctional' than you.
Perhaps if people weren't as impacting as they are on me, I would be able to function in the world better, and be better able to financially, etc., support myself.

In light of this, it makes sense to me that you would do as you are doing; as that makes sense. It wouldn't make sense to me - now - for you to do something different.

I don't know when 'd-day' will come, but I know that it will. I am completely cut off from informational sources, so I don't have anything to go by.


Human economy is completely unstable, even though the science of economics has made incredible progress. But positive feedback looping under less typical circumstances will still arise. The Human infrastucture is ridiculously fragile. Cities are a horrifying prospect in any infrastructure breakdown. A lot of people will die in the cities, and yes; those escaping will flood and overburden all the surrounding areas - even to the rurals, where they won't be too knowledgeable about how to survive, and where nobody is likely to help them to do so - while those who remain in the cities will do cool things like take over gas-stations as their 'turf' and make barricades around them. By that time, no-one will be able to get out of the cities, as they'll be gunned-down. Those who leave the cities have nowhere to go, their money is useless, and won't be able to survive. Suburbia is it's own type of desert, and rural territories will defend themselves with fatal force. Racism will become extreme, where whites in rural areas will not accept - and probably threaten to shoot - any non-whites who want entry into their farm communities, so there's nowhere for 50% of the population ('minorities') to go; they will have it extra-bad, and have to return to the urban areas ... so it would be likely that they would launch raids into the nearest suburban areas closest. Once that begins, blockades will be set up with no mercy and 'shoot-first' demeanors ... so it's likely that the 50% of the population in the cities will die quickly; but they won't go silently, so we could count on a war-zone retreating backwards from the urban areas, and high casualties on the suburbanite side, as well.

Aside from cities, which cannot support anyone once there's an infrastructure collapse, there is another danger area ... which is the less-fertile areas like the desert. Unlike the fertile and lush sliver of a valley I live in, with a year-round river ... which valley is surrounded by other valleys and farmland and forest for miles in every direction ... which can sustain the smaller population - although there will be no medical resources, and many will not survive with a lack of modern medicine, so a substantial percent of the rural areas populace won't make it through the first winter - less fertile lands are also dependent on infrastructure to support the population with survival. Although the population may be scarce, there will still be no food for most ... quickly. Some will stay, and others will pack up and use the last of their gas to get somewhere greener; there's no-where for anyone to go, however.
The SW along the Rio Grande will be inundated by 'refugees', gangs and scavengers from across the river, who are used to less luxury of services, and who will be more able to survive.
Colder areas, higher elevations, deserts ... all such environments will not be able to support the populace; just as much reliance on infrastructue is needed by such people as is by those in urban areas.
There will be a run on gas until gas-stations and oil companies and oil trucks will be targeted quickly for take-over.
Communities in sparser areas which are self-supportive will have to defend themselves from organized bands (like "The Postman" .. or whatever the post-apocalypse movie was with Kevin Kostner), perhaps paying tribute so as not to get attacked. In remote areas, any such bands coming across any civilization will have to fight in order to survive; they will attack when no-one is alert, perhaps at night. The most remote areas probably won't see much after the initial wave of bandits have died off - from starvation or battle. Such areas aren't profitable-enough to stay around and vandalize. But the initial waves will be ferocious.

No oil will come from the Mid-East, as there will be no more Chinese industry fed by American manufacturing; the situation is likely to become a free-for-all to obtain power over the Mid-East, which will become THE gobal battle-ground. Oil-producing facilities will be destroyed so 'the other guy' doesn't get them.
Alask will fall, and the pipeline will never stand, so no oil will come from there; China and Russia - with probably Japan, Canada, and a few others will content for those oil fields.
Which leaves only the Gulf and Texas areas to supply the USA military and the rest of the Country. Obviously, the military and the newly-established materiel manufacturing industry will take first dibs on that energy source. The remaining will not be enough to supply everyone.

However, by designating what the remaining Guf oil goes toward, it may be possible that the USA can limp on, with oil surplus going then to food production and transport and rationing. This scenario may end up saving the urban areas, but remote areas may have difficulty receiving any of this aid. But certainly there will be no other infrastructure; no electricity, no heating oil, no automobiles, etc..
The scenario depends on how much oil the Gulf produces.

So there are possible saving graces ... unfortunately. It might end up somewhat like the Great Depression.

What's "MRE's" ?


Yes, and it isn't exactly accurate and wasn't a reference intended to correspond to a reality; but it's useful in generally depicting a type of civilization downfall.

Oh, too funny.


Yes, in he aftermath, if we survive, we can all be looking at beachfront property in Laguna and Newport


Perhaps, perhaps not. A limited amount of fuel can carry many people in larger-capacity vehicles ... as well as supplies. There is horseback, as well, in some areas. Long-range rifles, medieval weaponries (like catapults - which can deliver any type of payload), and such can be used effectively against defenders. When you can't pop your head up, and it's raining large rocks and fire-bombs, things can take a turn for the worse.
The preparation for such a proposition is necessary, as there are too many unknown to count on anything in specific. 100 soldiers from Mexico might well advance into the USA with some heavy ordnance. Police have to survive as well, and they are most lkely to unite and become the most ferocious of para-military marauders. They will likely take over the best and more defendable land where-ever they might be, and then sent out guerilla scavenger parties to locate things like: women, food, energy. Police are generally hostile, and are becoming increasingly separated from the civilians they supposedly protect and serve.

There's really too much to take into account in predicting the future.

But one thing that makes sense is to prepare for whatever the future might hold in store.

I understand the potenial benefits in taking a place that seemingly nobody else wants, but much of what you say about the desert being a self-sufficiency really take time to happen. It takes a lot of time to produce enough waste that crops can be grown. Although green land does hold and produce more rain, a square mile of green will not rain on itself ... and it will take much time before it can even produce that green. What is the timeline of the restoritive cycle you speak of; I see that it makes sense, but I don't see it happeningexcpet over a period of many years. I don't see any additional rain coming, unless everyone take a square mile of the desert and reclaims it; but that doesn't appear to be happening.



The value of the developed desert is nil if there is a 'd-day'; who would want to live in a hut in the desert - or pay $0.50 for one - when 85% of the existing buildings all over the Country are vacant?

The land is certainly affordable in a used-up desert, however. But I dont see the cycle you speak of happening. I don't see that land as able to support many people. I don't see where more rain or water comes from; there would need to be 100 miles of plush green for rain to start appearing.
It looks to me like the theory is very sound, and is bio-spherically-correct , but how long does that cycle take to become a reality?


I adore space. I was looking at a ranch in Wyoming - 44 square miles of ranch - for $25million; that's $887/acre. On a mortage, this would be $8.87/month per acre. I can afford a few acres of that - either buying it or paying the mortage on my acres. I could pay for 20 acres, and use 10 and let the othe ten be used by others who might not have an income.
For much better land, it might go up to $2,000/acre. I pay $2,000/month in the winter for rent + heat. On a mortgage for something like 20 square miles of such topographically rich and fertile land, an acre would be about $20/month. I could afford 5 acres of such land, and give one to someone who didn't have an income. It woudn't matter where my acres were and where someone else's were; it's just that I could put into the community that way. Perhaps I use 3 acres, 2 other people use a half-acre each (which is still a nice amount according to me, as I have about 0.6 acres, which is rather too large to mow - methinks), and the other acre goes ito community land. Even if there's one person per 5 acres, it's $100/month ... and I do believe that Aspies working together and assisting innumerous projects they take a liking to, would end up making some serious funds; I can't see how $100/person couldn't be afforded.
But that is just the land...

It seems that the real cost ends up being not the land, but the structure and the meeting of building codes and the various facilities.

How much is the estimated per-100ft unit going to cost? I have about 300ft x 100ft - or close - of land where I currently reside.
There's a lot of privacy from now to late Autumn because of the terrain and foliage.

I'm on SS, so I guess I'll be rich??? I only make $547/month, though.

hmmm.. one square mile ... perhaps thee could be a few different 'zones' for such things as 'seclusion people' and 'work people' and 'attempting-to-socialize people' ... and because Aspies tend to be musically gifted ... a 'musically-gifted-and-using-it people' area. The rest could just be general.

Oh, btw, I had a studio, but I only used electronic instuments and headphones. I only used speakers when mastering music - and the I was careful that nobody was around. I did sound check swith my neighbors to find out what level of sound they could hear. Just because I made music, didn't mean I disturbed anyone; that's not what music is for. I was very courteous. Across the hall from me, however, was a singer/songwriter, who'd be up at 3:00am and playing his baby grand piano. That was a little disturbing and egotistical and discourteous.

MRE Meal, Ready to Eat. They even come with a heater pouch. Good for five years, room temp storage, plastic bag, mostly food weight.

In scale, 38 acres just north of Deming sold last night for $4300. That area has plentiful groundwater of good quality at 100' to 125'. It is within five miles of an I-10 on ramp and a 24 hour Super Walmart.

20 acres just off the Rio Grande with electric is $6000 with no bid. Water is a guess out there. Guessing is expensive.

People are dumping their desert ranch because money is tight, with more to come. That was $110 to $300 an acre, and cash.

Texas has done a lot of work on land restoration. In general, it is not worth it. Clearing brush costs $1000 an acre, on land worth $300. Then comes seeding in native grasses, then five years till a sod develops that could support light grazing. But five years to restore 150 years of damage is not bad. It was grassland, and has been proven that it will return to that state with local rainfall, and keeping the cows and goats off.

The other brush is salt cedar along the rivers, the curse of the west. It costs $1000 an acre to clear, but beneath it is farm land. Problem is the river is 2000 to 5000 mg/l of salts, which is way high for irrigation. Farms were abandoned to salt cedar because irrigation salted the land.

Solar stills can produce very fresh from the river, and flushing the soil will restore it to some of the best in the country. What it needs is drainage to five foot, a fresh rinse, and drip irrigation. It is year around crop land, four or five crops. Staggered plantings produced melons all winter.

The border is defended from both sides, looters will be stopped by Customs, Immigration, and never get near the border. Mexico does not need Gringo refugees. Canada will most likely double in population over night. Mexico has the army deployed fifty kilometers back from the border, and all the border controls.

I can live on snakes and rabbits, seeds, some of the cactus is very good for food and water. I prefer Sushi and green tea. I would not eat fish from the Rio Grande. Mexico does sell fresh fish from the Pacific, caught twelve hours before.

Just from gas prices, my grocery is no longer stocking Prime Rib, but family pack ground meat. I expect the price of cattle to fall, as the price of grain to feed them on feed lots just doubled. Beef was a narrow margin business, five cents a pound on the hoof is bankruptcy. A 10% downturn in beef consumption, 1,000,000 unemployed cows. A lot of ranches are going back to the bank.

So just the current disruptions are causing land to be sold cheap, and some was off the market because of problems before. In between was what realators listed, which now has a two year backlog, and sales are dead, because no one can get financing. Making others poor so they would feel richer is catching up with them. Just take over payments would make me laugh, it is worth maybe half that.

Our value is in use, and in labor. We do have some cash, but I do not expect to live on cactus, I would fund a Sushi bar. In four months, it is a place you could live in a tent for six months, and then in thick adobe. There are no County building codes. I would put in septic, for it is useful stuff.

Two 40' x 100' sheets of plastic would make a solar still that would provide irrigation water, and a few months later, crops, the place was famous for melons and onions. It has also grown barley, wheat, corn, beans, squash, and more. I have a deal to have adobe delivered from Mexico, cheap, fast and ready to build.

Not only will we live cheaply, we have cash, food is cheaper in Mexico, and we can grow lots. After distilling it twice, I would drink river water. I know how to make very pure water. The main thing is labor, stacking those adobes, clearing salt cedar, and buying up more of the river. There is a hard road, but it only goes to the Federal checkpoint, so bandits would have problems.

This land went under for the people who had it exploited it and the river, and would not use the technology that would have kept it productive.

"Putting ten hecrtares of land into production is worth more than winning a battle." Old Persian.

Food producers are protected. When the world falls apart, there will be no need to defend it, because everyone around will be defending it. Shogun, "how many rice bowls do you fill?"

Now I do see the price of desert dropping, and it will never be of great value. A square mile might raise six cows. Farm land can produce melons and onions. It has produced since 1200AD. The problem is dams, and cities upstream. They take the water and make the rest salty. As long as there is water, I can make it pure, and there is a volume.

Clearing salt cedar, building a solar still, laying drainage, is work beyond building houses. Within a year, it is crops. Paid for it is $3000 an acre above the price of the land, and before housing. Done with your own labor, it is cheaper. I would hire/buy a Ditch Witch to lay pipe and drainage, the rest is hand labor.

California and Arizona are running out of water, crops are a good long term bet.

Once crops are growing, hire people to work the fields. We have paid for land, houses, money coming in, and become a large emplyer.

Areas of the southwest with water are the only place to expand. I would not want Saint Louis or Detroit.

Mexico is a wonderful country, our only border with a non English people. They think all Gringos are strange, so I get by much better in other cultures and languages. Besides, it is very cheap, basic foods, house frunishings, plumbing fixtures, and they deliver. Catered Thai is an option.

Power and phone run along the river. Hard road, a few miles from the grocery, or the bridge to Mexico.

AS complains about employment, well go out an pick melons at dawn. One problem with farming was lack of labor, with the every changing border controls. We need the AS Welfare Farm. Everything is fairly easy, preparing the fields, planting irrigating, then comes pick and pack the crop, which is high labor for the winter. It is also the resort vacation season, when it is cool nights, and mild days.

Cheap to get there, no cost of living, good wages, and there will always be more salt cedar to clear. In the old days some of these farms had $7,000,000 payrolls. They lost their labor force, and the water salted. We could fix both problems, and spread along the river. I know of several hundred miles.

I am the villas along the river type, looking for olives that will ripen in the climate, think I found the way. Even if they do not produce well, rooted cutting sell for $6. Most of the olive zones are to the east, which get more rain, but with irrigation, it might work, or produce 100,000 cutting for the next project.

The main complaints I hear on WP are employment, and personal space. Orchard work would suit them. 65% of the value of the olive crop goes to picking labor. Then there is planting, irrigating, pruning, so 80+% labor. Olive oil is a high value in demand crop.

It is in a date palm belt. Both dates and olives are salt tolerent. That takes time, but trees can be growing while field crops grow below them.

I am not going to pay them to read Wiki, or play video games, and I do not know what else they would be good for. I think they can pick melons and clear brush.

I have found a few in art and technology, I like them better than humans. Poor is a universal trait, so we will not have the Vegas Convention. Out on the farm at low density, being paid, they would still not make eye contact or have conversations, but would be in the same County.

I think they would be great at clearing salt cedar. Every acre cleared will put people to work long term. It has to be started, but then the land will pay them. It took me a while to develop my own economy, but I know the principals, start, grow, spend the income on growing more.

The reason I am going to build is production is going to pay for it, and the new building will have much higher earnings. I will have to teach and pay people to keep up, then they can keep it running, while I work on growing.

I do not believe in this AS stuff, we are just weird over intelligent people with quirks. It is true we do not fit in that other economy, which keeps us poor, but we do fit well on Wrong Planet. Whatever it is, we have a lot in common.