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reika
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27 Apr 2008, 2:35 am

Hodor wrote:
I want to read the Curious Incident just to see how accurately Mark Haddon portrays his AS character. I've read the London Eye Mystery, in which the main character (supposedly) has Asperger's but it's overdone, forced and his traits are more like those of Classical Autism. The author obviously hasn't done her research, or more likely, she spent one rainy afternoon looking at the Wikipedia article on Asperger's Syndrome. :roll:


Just wanted to add that the author worked with autistic individuals when he was a young man, (it says this on the third page of the book.) And he's not a "she." Just wanted to set the record straight :)
It wasn't the best book I'v ever read, but it wasn't the worst either. Good story if nothing else.


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28 Apr 2008, 4:53 pm

im in the middle of reading it again from the second time. The first time i read it my boyfriend at the time gave it me to explain his aspgers...I wouldn't recommend this, back then he thought i was NT and from reading think i was NT it just confused me as he isnt clueless of the world like the boy is.

reading it again now knowing i'm an aspie i can understand it more about when he says 'I never lie' and he doesnt like people touching him but thats about it .

in the cover of the book it does say aspegers.


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28 Apr 2008, 5:27 pm

wob182 wrote:
...in the cover of the book it does say aspegers.

There were two versions of the book printed, differing only in the cover. One version was for "adults" (serious cover artwork) and one for "teenagers" (prettier cover artwork). One of the two mentions Asperger's syndrome in the cover notes, the other doesn't. The author definitely intended his character to be an aspie. See this Guardian interview with Mark Haddon.


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28 Apr 2008, 5:43 pm

I think Chris was more severe AS then, not mild.



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29 Apr 2008, 7:00 am

I also think that he was more severe, as well. I've never had that many problems, when I was younger. I think he has it a lot worse, than 99.99% of us.


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29 Apr 2008, 1:22 pm

lau wrote:
wob182 wrote:
...in the cover of the book it does say aspegers.

There were two versions of the book printed, differing only in the cover. One version was for "adults" (serious cover artwork) and one for "teenagers" (prettier cover artwork). One of the two mentions Asperger's syndrome in the cover notes, the other doesn't. The author definitely intended his character to be an aspie. See this Guardian interview with Mark Haddon.


I wonder what he'd make of hearing opinions from a bunch of aspergians that the character in the story is more autistic? This isn't the first time or place I've heard people saying "That's not AS, that's autism!" ...too late for the book now, obviously, and I guess having it so extreme makes for good characterisation (Christopher IS a good character, regardless of what he 'has'), but he could still have put 'autism'. Even so, be interesting to see what he says about that. He seems a good guy though in every interview I've seen.


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29 Apr 2008, 8:51 pm

jamescampbell wrote:
it's quite a good book but fails to explain that not all aspies are lilike that.!

cause my freind it thinks that all aspies are as bad as this boy and that all aspies have the same symtoms. i trid to explain that it's an "hidden" condition because it's quite hard to dignose as the symtoms change and vary in strength with each person. this all started with me metining my aspie test and he said "you don't have it, your not as bad as that boy in the book". btw if you haven't read it the symtoms the boy has:

inablity to express fealings
really good at maths
intrested in a subject to the point where non aspies think his "obssesed"(yup i'm like that)
hates people shouting at him(so like me)
hates people touching him non-firmly
hates too many questions in a short time(like me so much.


so has anyone else read the book?


It is a fiction book, and therefore Mr Haddon is probably working under the reasonably safe assumption that most of his readers will get the idea. After all, one does not watch Alien, and then assume that all films involving alien life forms will include parasitic phallic monsters with acid for blood. Nor does everyone who reads Harry Potter then think that all boarding schools in books have wizards in them, or that all train stations have secret extra platforms with steam locomotives running to said boarding schools. Not every cop is a rogue who plays by his own rules, and not every japanese woman born in the mid-twenties was a geisha.

Hopefully, Haddon has broadened peoples perceptions about autism and AS, and maybe the brighter readers will go away thinking "I should look into this subject a little more before I form opinions.|"


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29 Apr 2008, 11:53 pm

Asperger's can actually be as severe as autistic disorder in many ways; it just has somewhat "normal" semantic language development plus a few less things along for the ride (usually motor mannerisms and parts of objects).

Everyone likes writing about the "severe" or rare cases, filming too; Rain Man and Simon with their special skills (which aren't that common) for example.

It's fiction.



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30 Apr 2008, 12:36 am

Macbeth wrote:
It is a fiction book, and therefore Mr Haddon is probably working under the reasonably safe assumption that most of his readers will get the idea. After all, one does not watch Alien, and then assume that all films involving alien life forms will include parasitic phallic monsters with acid for blood. Nor does everyone who reads Harry Potter then think that all boarding schools in books have wizards in them, or that all train stations have secret extra platforms with steam locomotives running to said boarding schools. Not every cop is a rogue who plays by his own rules, and not every japanese woman born in the mid-twenties was a geisha.


Most of those aren't really good comparisons, because the book takes place within the real world. There are no fantasy/science-fiction elements. Rightfully or not, many people form opinions of reality based on fiction, and not always with the proper amount of research. (I'd also add that your geisha example seems odd to me--so many people stereotype Japanese women that way!) I criticize the book as a work of literature because the protagonist doesn't seem like a fully developed character to me so much as a collection of stereotypes. Is there any autistic trait he doesn't demonstrate?! For an example of an explicitly autistic fictional character who is very well-developed, I'd point to Lou in "The Speed of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon. There are many good aspects to the book, but I don't think it serves very well as an introduction to autism. (Of course, no book focusing on a single individual is a great introductory text to autism.) I do wonder how many people come out of reading the book with false conceptions, though that's certainly nothing new.

Ironically, I first started the book having no idea of my being on the spectrum. I did think that the way Haddon represented Christopher's thoughts had some similarities to my own cognition. I didn't get beyond the first ten pages until after diagnosis and I decided to research autism. Having read the entire book, I don't really relate very well to Christopher on the whole. I can't relate to his detached way of perceiving the world.



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30 Apr 2008, 8:43 am

srriv345 wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
It is a fiction book, and therefore Mr Haddon is probably working under the reasonably safe assumption that most of his readers will get the idea. After all, one does not watch Alien, and then assume that all films involving alien life forms will include parasitic phallic monsters with acid for blood. Nor does everyone who reads Harry Potter then think that all boarding schools in books have wizards in them, or that all train stations have secret extra platforms with steam locomotives running to said boarding schools. Not every cop is a rogue who plays by his own rules, and not every japanese woman born in the mid-twenties was a geisha.


Most of those aren't really good comparisons, because the book takes place within the real world. There are no fantasy/science-fiction elements. Rightfully or not, many people form opinions of reality based on fiction, and not always with the proper amount of research. (I'd also add that your geisha example seems odd to me--so many people stereotype Japanese women that way!) I criticize the book as a work of literature because the protagonist doesn't seem like a fully developed character to me so much as a collection of stereotypes. Is there any autistic trait he doesn't demonstrate?! For an example of an explicitly autistic fictional character who is very well-developed, I'd point to Lou in "The Speed of Dark" by Elizabeth Moon. There are many good aspects to the book, but I don't think it serves very well as an introduction to autism. (Of course, no book focusing on a single individual is a great introductory text to autism.) I do wonder how many people come out of reading the book with false conceptions, though that's certainly nothing new.

Ironically, I first started the book having no idea of my being on the spectrum. I did think that the way Haddon represented Christopher's thoughts had some similarities to my own cognition. I didn't get beyond the first ten pages until after diagnosis and I decided to research autism. Having read the entire book, I don't really relate very well to Christopher on the whole. I can't relate to his detached way of perceiving the world.


I would have thought more people stereotype japanese women as having huge eyes and wearing school uniforms whlist shouting something incomprehensible and loud. Admittedly I got carried away with the examples, but then I often do.

The issue is that its all but impossible to create a fictional aspie that will satisfy every variant on the spectrum. All fictional aspies have the same issue - they cannot realistically portray the whole spectrum - such that the best examples of aspie-ness are usually not aspies at all. Much of the spectrum is so subtle that you would be hard pressed to locate the autistic traits.


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jamescampbell
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30 Apr 2008, 11:07 am

why not have mutiple aspies with varience in how severe they are.



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30 Apr 2008, 11:10 am

jamescampbell wrote:
why not have mutiple aspies with varience in how severe they are.


Mozart and the Whale had two, and people still moaned that it wasn't representative. It would have to be a whole support group of them.


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04 May 2008, 12:20 am

One of my friends said I should read the book...she doesn't know, and hopefully if it's as vague as I think, she still doesn't ;)

Haven't read it yet, but I might check it out some time.

srriv345 wrote:
I did think that the way Haddon represented Christopher's thoughts had some similarities to my own cognition.


A fictional character I can really relate to is Will Graham from Thomas Harris's Red Dragon. Just the way his attention drifts so quickly between things (the sun and the seagulls while talking to his wife at the beginning), how detailed his descriptions are, how his thoughts have relevant segues into seemingly unrelated thoughts (the cupie dolls), sensory sensitivity (overwhelmed by the smell of blood, inducing headaches), speech deficiencies (mimicking Crawford), etc... Of course, it's logical that being in FBI forensics he'd be that way, but he's REALLY really good at it.



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15 May 2008, 12:58 am

I kind of liked the book. It was a bit depressing, especially when he found out that his father had killed Wellington and that his father had lied to him, but still overall an interesting book. I sort of identified with Christopher in that I'm picky with food, I used to like Sherlock Holmes, I tend to pick out patterns, and I'm uncomfortable around people, especially strangers, but I'm not as sensitive as I used to be, so I most likely wouldn't have complete meltdowns in public like he does. He had a lot going on in his life, though, with his mother gone and everything, so that could definitely contribute to his sensitivity and anxiety. I didn't go to a "special" school, though, nor was I in special education, so that part is obviously different. I also suck at math.



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15 May 2008, 8:10 am

jamescampbell wrote:
it's quite a good book but fails to explain that not all aspies are lilike that.!

cause my freind it thinks that all aspies are as bad as this boy and that all aspies have the same symtoms. i trid to explain that it's an "hidden" condition because it's quite hard to dignose as the symtoms change and vary in strength with each person. this all started with me metining my aspie test and he said "you don't have it, your not as bad as that boy in the book". btw if you haven't read it the symtoms the boy has:

inablity to express fealings
really good at maths
intrested in a subject to the point where non aspies think his "obssesed"(yup i'm like that)
hates people shouting at him(so like me)
hates people touching him non-firmly
hates too many questions in a short time(like me so much.


so has anyone else read the book?

why is it that people always think people with AS are good at math, i'm terrible at math, can't stand it, i'm much better at english or other subject.


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15 May 2008, 8:48 am

Because it is something that some aspies are good at just like some non aspies are too. It's another one of those stereotypes about us. :evil:

What bugs me is when they all act all proud of it saying it's their AS that makes them good with it. BS. I have seen normal people good with math too. It's a human thing. Some are good with it, some aren't.