Don't breed, writer urges mental health victims

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(Woodpecker)

I think it is eugenics. The attitude as well, 'if you don't behave as we do you are not human', I get that at work and am within an inch of leaving, which isn't great because there are about to be no jobs up here on wearside (we always get hit bad by a recession), meaning either dole queues or moving away (far away) to get a menial job elsewhere. Worse, carry this kind of dehumanising attitude to its absolute logical conclusion and it is not good. I refer to the propaganda of that party in the 30's and 40's, as well as the work of the church(es) regarding Africans, sub-humans and trans-atlantic slavery.

(nothingunusual)

that's pretty damn outrageous. I laugh now but a similar thing happened when first going into my current job; there was a group of us sent for a diversity awareness presentation and when told just what percentage of the the UK were considered to have some form of disability (17-20% i think) one member of the group joked that "some selective breeding was needed". The irony that this was said at a diversity presentation was not lost on me. I know it was intended as a joke but that kind of thing comes out all too easily for some people.

Last edited by TitusLucretiusCarus on 11 May 2009, 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

When I was pregnant with my eldest child 11 years ago, the psychiatrist put a huge amount of pressure on me to have a 'theraputic termination' and I had to really battle him (and others) to keep her.

What a sick article.

I like the sarcastic evil comebacks haha

That's absolutely disgraceful. Nevermind it being totally inappropriate, but is it even legal for a clinician to abuse their position like that?

In Psychiatry there seems to be a fine line between therapy and abuse. I'm sorry you had to go through being treated in such a way.

It's my life, and I'll have kids if I want to, kids if I want to, kids if I want to...you would have kids if it happened to you...do do do do do.

Thank you all you so much, as your understanding and support here truly gives me strength because at times where I live in South Island New Zealand I feel like a leper speaking out, and even start doubting myself for doing so, thank god for the autistic community the only place I seem to feel excepted at times. None ASD individuals prefer to talk at me rather than too me, its like the harder I try and let some of them into my world the more they keep me at arms length, of course like the community here there are some that keep me sane...

But with all that I do I realize so often I am still so on my own at times in regards to awareness here and have decided today my only way forward is to work with a disability organization here in New Zealand where in stead of continually being discriminated against for reaching out,will get the support I need and hopefully be able to get the word out at a higher level, as the more I work with none autistic individuals how ever much I do and however strong I seem to them, more than often I end up being exhausted by there lack of real understanding.

At times I feel like I am talking to a brick wall, others continually wanting me to conform to fit into there acceptable standard and they have no idea on the impact they have on me, the joke is some of these none autistic individuals have children on the autism spectrum and at times rather than see me for the person I am, they want me to be and act what I am not, consequence from time to time I get so people overdosed I wonder how I get the strength, then look at my sons and know worth fighting for... don't worry just having one of those moments, but I am far from giving up

Personally? I would never have children, lest my AS genes be inherited and my son/daughter go through the same struggles that I did. I would never really forgive myself. If I was advising an AS person, as a private citizen and not a clinician (since I have no degree)? I would ask them if having an AS child that would suffer all over again what you suffered, and one day when he/she is 13 he/she comes home from school and asks why you made him/her knowing that the child would have AS would be worth it. In a societal sense, I am against eugenics laws. I am disposed to some eugenics views, but I view them as a matter between the parents of the soon to be born child, their families, and their god/religious leaders.

I do NOT support killing those already born with any disorder, although I think that if a person really wants to kill himself he will find a way. It reminds me of a man who was found in a car wreck in a remote part of Nevada's Carson Valley in December. He was brought back to health, and everybody hailed it as a miracle. In March of the following year he was found dead in his new car, a bullet in his head. He had wrecked his own car in the hopes of dying, but he was found, so he decided to do a more effective method. Most people will not kill themselves and go through with it 100%, as they're falling off the bridge they will pray to god to let them live. Suggesting that people with disorders "put themselves out of OUR misery" is just evil.

Well done you have just put yourself along side the person who wrote the article, discriminating against AS individuals - we do not give birth to cardboard copies of self and no 2 people are alike on this planet...!

My life has been horrendous in parts until I discovered Apergers and true self, and now like my autistic child very proud to be an autistic individual, society is often what causes us to dislike sadly ourselves... not have confidence in self.. all I can say we can all learn from the wrong and help make it right, its what we do as individuals that makes the real difference, children from this generation need not suffer like the last...

Last edited by asplanet on 12 May 2009, 12:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

No s**t.... I have kids and it won't bother me one bit if either of them happens to have AS. School sucked for me, but today there is SO MUCH that can be done to help these little folks along. Besides.... I happen to "like" myself.... despite anything crappy that may have happened to me during school. Life is full of misfortune. You don't have to have AS to be dealt a bad hand at life!! !

Something like an ASD would probably be seen as torture for your typical bubbly extrovert.

She's probably just seeing it from her perspective, rather than it being personal to anyone.

I have to add, the individual with AS in the article who says people like such are her only problem..., obviously doesn't have AS, or she's oblivious to her own deficits. By definition, people with AS won't bother with the opinion of others if it's counter to theirs; they'll just ignore it.

sadly that often is my main problem in life! so I feel we all need to continue to speak out in order to help turn things around...

This is not so much a joke, but part of an inevitable and discriminatory outcome of the Crown's discrimination against adults with ASDs.
In New Zealand, the majority of people with high functioning and/or verbal types of ASD are completely undiagnosed, unrepresented in all statistics used to support resource allocation decision making, and are excluded from any realistic role in shaping public perception/identity (of people with ASDs).

In essence our identity as a group (in New Zealand) is defined for us by people associated with children like us/like we were (when we were children). In New Zealand, we are locked out of self-determination in public perception about us, and our public identity so that people with ASDs are either burdensome problems of afflicted families, or children (sometimes both).

The lack of identification of adults, and the lack of services/interventions/accommodations/supports across the spectrum for adults (but particularly those who are at least superficially "high functioning") means that there is no regular group of professionals involved (knowingly) with as us adult individuals, to represent our needs and advocate for us (and more funding in their area of interest) as there are for families of children (and sometimes the children themselves we would hope).

The fact that few of us know who we are, and that those who do cannot necessarily afford external validation, nor access it through the public health system (which often will not recognize privately obtained diagnosis). locks us out of both equitable consideration in the public realm of resource allocation, legislation, access to public amenities/services, etc, but also out of any self-determination in the public identity and understanding of AS, from Joe-Average Citizen, through to public policy makers, and front line service delivery staff (ie health professionals, social workers, educators, court staff, police officers, etc) in between.

All this stems from the arbitrary discriminatory decision to exclude people over 18 from accessing diagnostic services, while knowing that there must be people over 18 who have these life-long conditions, have never been diagnosed, have never received any therapeutic intervention to "improve their outcome" and therefore are debilitated and suffering as a result of being without equitable services, support or even access to basic human rights like reasonable accommodation and freedom from discrimination in the work-force/education/significant spheres of public life.

It's convenient for TPTB, because it removes any need to develop adult assessment capacity, and defers the need to provide adult services (only as the fraction of diagnosed people with ASDs reach 18 is there any "officially recognized" need, and then the numbers will continue to be small enough to rationalize denying services until the gap between diagnostic rates and actual prevalence rates is significantly reduced). There is no empirical or evidenced based reason for the decision to deny access to publicly funded ASD assessment/diagnostic services on the basis of age. It's just mighty convenient for them, and places all the emphasis on meeting the needs of parents of people children with ASDs. Even their needs tend to be thrown out the window when people with ASD reach the age of 18 (although this varies from one public health authority region to another).

People and in particular adults with ADS are excluded from and discriminated against in New Zealand both at grass roots level and institutionally from the top down.

After all, for what other disability would a person be incarcerated in a prison cell, in circumstances where it would be usual for anyone else to be cared for in a health care setting?

^^That's a great post.

I can't describe how much I want to see a whole civil rights movement grow out of topics such as this. Denial of services, discrimination in all walks of life, promotion of violence against those on the spectrum, disenfranchisement. Not just in this thread but others, members write about being told not to have children by representatives of the state and health professionals (broadest sense of the term) - there is at least one member who has had, if i remember correctly, two of his baby daughters taken from his care by social services for what seem to be reasons associated with having AS.

As a diaspora (if it's appropriate to use the term) we seem very spread out across the globe, but if it were to 'piggyback' along with another - mental health etc. - we could redress the imbalance of numbers and geographic distance.

Will the new Malcolm X please stand up?

Looks like the writer of the article urged herself to not breed.

asplanet, I've seen similar hideous ideas put forward before as seen way back in time of WWII therefore, to see such again makes me extremely sick.. Honestly, I've always been aware there are people whom would love to perpetuate the notion of genocide by so-called getting rid of members of the populace whom some sick-minded person feels are insignificant or worthless..Well, I don't care for no such cruelty whatsoever so, somone can go around saying this crap but, hopefully nothing comes about from it I'd hope...


ProfessorX

Eugenics (read: preemptive euthanasia) is as old as civilization. Ancient Spartans and Romans would often
discard or abandon sick or deformed infants. Such societies are ultimately self destructive, when was the last
time you saw a Spartan or a Roman?

Here is a question once asked by Oliver Sacks I think, "What if it turns out that people with Downs Syndrome,
Autism, or some other disorder don't get certain forms of cancer, don't you think we might want to find out
why?"