Curious: What exactly do we hate about Autism Speaks?
11 Dec 2011, 6:47 pm
You know what I hate about Autism Speaks?
The endless circular arguments that begin every time their name is mentioned!! !
_________________
You may know me from my column here on WrongPlanet. I'm also writing a book for AAPC. Visit my Facebook page for links to articles I've written for Autism Speaks and other websites.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/JohnScott ... 8723228267
11 Dec 2011, 8:00 pm
"The endless circular arguments that begin every time their name is mentioned!! !"
When you wrote that I was picturing people on two spinning gears wagging their finger and screaming at each other. The only neat part about the imagery is the spinning gears. Not the screaming people.
11 Dec 2011, 8:16 pm
Tambourine-Man wrote:
You know what I hate about Autism Speaks?
The endless circular arguments that begin every time their name is mentioned!! !
yea agreed.ive actualy cured my imsomnia by reading anti A.S posts before bed,im asleep in minutes
The endless circular arguments that begin every time their name is mentioned!! !
_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
12 Dec 2011, 12:17 am
TheygoMew wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
In general, there are hardly any services out here for Autistic Adults. The focus of Autism has always centered around children with severe developmental problems related to Autism. So, ALL Autistic ADULTS, not just those with Aspergers, have had their unique individual needs ignored BY society.
Having said that, there are adults who may need only slight accommodations BUT there are also adults who will need a lifetime of services. It is a spectrum. Who is going to advocate for the latter group of adults i named? Who is going to advocate for those who lie in between ?
What is going to end up happening is THAT a group of parents with Adult Autistic children are going to align themselves with a powerful organization that can help them obtain the services that their adult autistic child needs. Eventually, the parent-child and parent-adult Autistic factions will come together, offer each other advice, and HELP their children make a smooth seamless transition from Childhood to Adulthood.
I take into consideration that self advocates are exploring new territory, and i give them credit for being out there. It takes courage. My humble advice to you is : Do not forget that it is a spectrum and if you want meet the demands of a particular group inside 'the spectrum', someone will step forward and do it.
Yeah, your posts are too soft. meow. LoL.
TheSunAlsoRises
Having said that, there are adults who may need only slight accommodations BUT there are also adults who will need a lifetime of services. It is a spectrum. Who is going to advocate for the latter group of adults i named? Who is going to advocate for those who lie in between ?
What is going to end up happening is THAT a group of parents with Adult Autistic children are going to align themselves with a powerful organization that can help them obtain the services that their adult autistic child needs. Eventually, the parent-child and parent-adult Autistic factions will come together, offer each other advice, and HELP their children make a smooth seamless transition from Childhood to Adulthood.
I take into consideration that self advocates are exploring new territory, and i give them credit for being out there. It takes courage. My humble advice to you is : Do not forget that it is a spectrum and if you want meet the demands of a particular group inside 'the spectrum', someone will step forward and do it.
Yeah, your posts are too soft. meow. LoL.
TheSunAlsoRises
Your text is kind of cute
Meow
Thank you. Ma'am. *blushes like a little school girl selling Girl Scout cookies on a Sunday morning*
TheSunAlsoRises
12 Dec 2011, 7:34 pm
aghogday wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Autistic adults are the main byproduct of autistic children.
Now Marketing, Grandparents, Parents, Psych Majors, and Charities can claim to be experts, but only one group has lived it.
I was fine as a child, except the reaction of experts, Teachers, Preachers, Neighborhood busybodies, who just had to mention that I was different, and should be burned at the stake.
So I see that same group now posting about how it is about autistic children who need to be fixed, and the adults who they became can just shut up.
By the numbers, which have been avoided, one in a hundred is not going to spend their life being non verbal in an institution. That may be the reality for 1% of the autistic, but the rest will just grow out of it as they always have.
Fear Mongering by Marketing. Using hopeless cases for poster children, focus on the rare worst outcomes, and dismissing the rest as not being "Real Autistics."
That Reality is only the view of Charities who Market misinformation for a living.
Intense treatment of the most disabled has not been shown to produce results. About the only thing that did work was getting their fingers on a keyboard.
In my personal experence, the most important things about me were my hand writing, and making eye contact. Animals four times my size yelled at me and told me how worthless I was, and I could sit there till I could write Cursive like they just learnt me. There was a constant threat, I am big and important, I can do anything I want, you are nobody.
Now I am being told I am worthless because I survived anyway.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
Now Marketing, Grandparents, Parents, Psych Majors, and Charities can claim to be experts, but only one group has lived it.
I was fine as a child, except the reaction of experts, Teachers, Preachers, Neighborhood busybodies, who just had to mention that I was different, and should be burned at the stake.
So I see that same group now posting about how it is about autistic children who need to be fixed, and the adults who they became can just shut up.
By the numbers, which have been avoided, one in a hundred is not going to spend their life being non verbal in an institution. That may be the reality for 1% of the autistic, but the rest will just grow out of it as they always have.
Fear Mongering by Marketing. Using hopeless cases for poster children, focus on the rare worst outcomes, and dismissing the rest as not being "Real Autistics."
That Reality is only the view of Charities who Market misinformation for a living.
Intense treatment of the most disabled has not been shown to produce results. About the only thing that did work was getting their fingers on a keyboard.
In my personal experence, the most important things about me were my hand writing, and making eye contact. Animals four times my size yelled at me and told me how worthless I was, and I could sit there till I could write Cursive like they just learnt me. There was a constant threat, I am big and important, I can do anything I want, you are nobody.
Now I am being told I am worthless because I survived anyway.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
The reality, of those who are diagnosed and identified as such, the 1 in 110, are eight year olds, for the most part that are in special education classes for the developmentally delayed, per government methodology of measuring ASD's.
The government estimates as many as 500,000 of these identified children will need support into adulthood in the coming decade, as they transition into adult life.
Most will be accommodated by their parents, as the available statistics on identified autistic adults suggest now; the 80% that rely on parents and 90% that don't hold steady employment.
There are likely many more individuals with autistic traits; up to 30%, many which function okay in adulthood, but these are not the individuals diagnosed and identified, where the concern of government and charities lie.
It is those 8 year olds in schools for the developmentally disabled, the ones that are for the most part, identified in the 1 in 110.
For many of those who have "grown out of it", they likely don't have a diagnosis, or have any idea that autism could possibly apply to them. For many of those individuals autism speaks likely doesn't mean much more than a puzzle icon they glanced at on the bumper of car.
Problem is, as recent research in the UK, indicates, where autism was studied in a cross section of the country, and identified in 1 percent of the adult population, many of those unaware of their autism, had definitely not "grown out of it", and were experiencing struggles to survive in life.
This, however was not a measure of the broader phenotype of autism reported much further out into the population.
Those people that do experience their autism as a disability, who do not "grow out of it" need diagnosis, identification, and support where possible and appropriate.
Behavioral therapy has shown to be effective in some developmentally disabled children with Autism, from recent research.:
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/medical/autism/story/2011/04/Research-Autism-treatments-fall-short/45725852/1
Quote:
•Behavioral therapy, which can last more than 30 hours a week, helps some children to talk more, improve their behavior and boost their scores on intelligence tests, the analyses show.
That's an important finding, given that doctors once thought autistic children had no hope of improvement, says Leonard Rappaport of Children's Hospital Boston, who wasn't involved in the new articles.
That's an important finding, given that doctors once thought autistic children had no hope of improvement, says Leonard Rappaport of Children's Hospital Boston, who wasn't involved in the new articles.
Quote:
Doctors are trying to do a better job of diagnosing babies and toddlers who are at high risk of autism, such as younger siblings of autistic children. About one in five of these younger siblings will also have autism, Rappaport says.
In the future, doctors may be able to develop more effective therapies based on discoveries about the genetics of autism, which may allow them to prescribe therapy targeted to a child's specific problem, Rappaport says.
In the future, doctors may be able to develop more effective therapies based on discoveries about the genetics of autism, which may allow them to prescribe therapy targeted to a child's specific problem, Rappaport says.
While there is at least one other site, where autistic adults voices have been censored by authority for differences in opinions, or just for looking too much. There is no significant evidence here that I see of anyone asking adult autistics to shut up.
And it does not appear to be something that is happening, on Autism Speaks Support group sites. The evidence is clear. All one has to do, is go there and look, and one can see offensive remarks made about that organization, by adult autistics, that remain on their support sites, uncensored.
A short while ago you claimed only those who lost speach were real autistics, Regressive Autism. Others claimed that only children counted, which here combines to 30 hours a week of Behavioral therapy @$3,000 a week as being the new goal.
All Autism is regressive, at the least a developmental delay, and even those fakers with Asperger's without language delay, still meet three other criteria. 30 hours of therapy or nothing, those with language delay will start to speak. If the Witch Doctor shakes the bone and feather rattle over them, that is of course the reason the child can now speak.
30 hours a week of Psychobabble, over several years, hopeless babies will learn to speak, and can be potty trained.
The normal range for speaking is broad, years, and therapy for the slow half, benefits therapists.
While these claims have been made, I have been asking, what therapy? It seems this is some Professional secret, not subject to peer reviewed science. I see it as teaching babies to walk, and claiming that without professional services, babies would never walk.
Where one child reaches a speech milestone at three, and another the same at four, forceing the delayed one may cause many more development problems later.
My view, there has been no study of adult outcomes, other than claims that they do not exist, are not real, and this experiment on children is being conducted without a background study, other than a claim of a Degree in History, and understanding the real truth of History, as only a Professional can.
It is nothing but dog training tactics being used on children.
This is justified by the same people who make money off of it.
What exists now is what always existed, and of the two stories, Monday Morning armchair Psychobabble, claiming a professional right to cattle prod children for money, or the many who have gone before who say, we just fit in, and are not the strangest people wandering around. I take the latter view.
Treating things that are not a problem, that are within the range of normal human development, and "Normal Human" is a wide range, without making a study of past outcomes, like autism did not exist until some thought to make money off of it.
Fraud, claiming childhood behavior needs professional adult help, drugs, therapy, and the main push I see is to make all of these "Services" billable under insurance. This is Psychobabble Welfare.
No one over thirty has a real Dx, because it never existed before. It is junk science and a catchall, for birth defects, retardation, FAS, and brain damage caused by external adult causes.
The only people who will benefit are Chartities, who are fronts for Psychobabble, who spend money on fake science research, hand picked subjects, the desired answer known, no controls, blind studies, or peer review, same experiment done by others.
Psychobabble makes tax deductable donations to a charity who kicks back money in Grants, to do studies, who's results say more Psychobabble is needed. Thirty hours a week per autistic child is the gravy train, $150,000 a year.
This is a Professional Advertising machine.
Results matter, and here the results are pockets full of money, useless treatments added to everyones cost of insurance, by a lobbying machine for Psychobabble, with some slick New York Marketing.
Science Fraud, Tax Fraud, and blocking the path for any real assistance for anyone not in the target group. Autism defined by others, for others.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
12 Dec 2011, 9:11 pm
Inventor wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Autistic adults are the main byproduct of autistic children.
Now Marketing, Grandparents, Parents, Psych Majors, and Charities can claim to be experts, but only one group has lived it.
I was fine as a child, except the reaction of experts, Teachers, Preachers, Neighborhood busybodies, who just had to mention that I was different, and should be burned at the stake.
So I see that same group now posting about how it is about autistic children who need to be fixed, and the adults who they became can just shut up.
By the numbers, which have been avoided, one in a hundred is not going to spend their life being non verbal in an institution. That may be the reality for 1% of the autistic, but the rest will just grow out of it as they always have.
Fear Mongering by Marketing. Using hopeless cases for poster children, focus on the rare worst outcomes, and dismissing the rest as not being "Real Autistics."
That Reality is only the view of Charities who Market misinformation for a living.
Intense treatment of the most disabled has not been shown to produce results. About the only thing that did work was getting their fingers on a keyboard.
In my personal experence, the most important things about me were my hand writing, and making eye contact. Animals four times my size yelled at me and told me how worthless I was, and I could sit there till I could write Cursive like they just learnt me. There was a constant threat, I am big and important, I can do anything I want, you are nobody.
Now I am being told I am worthless because I survived anyway.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
Now Marketing, Grandparents, Parents, Psych Majors, and Charities can claim to be experts, but only one group has lived it.
I was fine as a child, except the reaction of experts, Teachers, Preachers, Neighborhood busybodies, who just had to mention that I was different, and should be burned at the stake.
So I see that same group now posting about how it is about autistic children who need to be fixed, and the adults who they became can just shut up.
By the numbers, which have been avoided, one in a hundred is not going to spend their life being non verbal in an institution. That may be the reality for 1% of the autistic, but the rest will just grow out of it as they always have.
Fear Mongering by Marketing. Using hopeless cases for poster children, focus on the rare worst outcomes, and dismissing the rest as not being "Real Autistics."
That Reality is only the view of Charities who Market misinformation for a living.
Intense treatment of the most disabled has not been shown to produce results. About the only thing that did work was getting their fingers on a keyboard.
In my personal experence, the most important things about me were my hand writing, and making eye contact. Animals four times my size yelled at me and told me how worthless I was, and I could sit there till I could write Cursive like they just learnt me. There was a constant threat, I am big and important, I can do anything I want, you are nobody.
Now I am being told I am worthless because I survived anyway.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
The reality, of those who are diagnosed and identified as such, the 1 in 110, are eight year olds, for the most part that are in special education classes for the developmentally delayed, per government methodology of measuring ASD's.
The government estimates as many as 500,000 of these identified children will need support into adulthood in the coming decade, as they transition into adult life.
Most will be accommodated by their parents, as the available statistics on identified autistic adults suggest now; the 80% that rely on parents and 90% that don't hold steady employment.
There are likely many more individuals with autistic traits; up to 30%, many which function okay in adulthood, but these are not the individuals diagnosed and identified, where the concern of government and charities lie.
It is those 8 year olds in schools for the developmentally disabled, the ones that are for the most part, identified in the 1 in 110.
For many of those who have "grown out of it", they likely don't have a diagnosis, or have any idea that autism could possibly apply to them. For many of those individuals autism speaks likely doesn't mean much more than a puzzle icon they glanced at on the bumper of car.
Problem is, as recent research in the UK, indicates, where autism was studied in a cross section of the country, and identified in 1 percent of the adult population, many of those unaware of their autism, had definitely not "grown out of it", and were experiencing struggles to survive in life.
This, however was not a measure of the broader phenotype of autism reported much further out into the population.
Those people that do experience their autism as a disability, who do not "grow out of it" need diagnosis, identification, and support where possible and appropriate.
Behavioral therapy has shown to be effective in some developmentally disabled children with Autism, from recent research.:
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/medical/autism/story/2011/04/Research-Autism-treatments-fall-short/45725852/1
Quote:
•Behavioral therapy, which can last more than 30 hours a week, helps some children to talk more, improve their behavior and boost their scores on intelligence tests, the analyses show.
That's an important finding, given that doctors once thought autistic children had no hope of improvement, says Leonard Rappaport of Children's Hospital Boston, who wasn't involved in the new articles.
That's an important finding, given that doctors once thought autistic children had no hope of improvement, says Leonard Rappaport of Children's Hospital Boston, who wasn't involved in the new articles.
Quote:
Doctors are trying to do a better job of diagnosing babies and toddlers who are at high risk of autism, such as younger siblings of autistic children. About one in five of these younger siblings will also have autism, Rappaport says.
In the future, doctors may be able to develop more effective therapies based on discoveries about the genetics of autism, which may allow them to prescribe therapy targeted to a child's specific problem, Rappaport says.
In the future, doctors may be able to develop more effective therapies based on discoveries about the genetics of autism, which may allow them to prescribe therapy targeted to a child's specific problem, Rappaport says.
While there is at least one other site, where autistic adults voices have been censored by authority for differences in opinions, or just for looking too much. There is no significant evidence here that I see of anyone asking adult autistics to shut up.
And it does not appear to be something that is happening, on Autism Speaks Support group sites. The evidence is clear. All one has to do, is go there and look, and one can see offensive remarks made about that organization, by adult autistics, that remain on their support sites, uncensored.
A short while ago you claimed only those who lost speach were real autistics, Regressive Autism. Others claimed that only children counted, which here combines to 30 hours a week of Behavioral therapy @$3,000 a week as being the new goal.
All Autism is regressive, at the least a developmental delay, and even those fakers with Asperger's without language delay, still meet three other criteria. 30 hours of therapy or nothing, those with language delay will start to speak. If the Witch Doctor shakes the bone and feather rattle over them, that is of course the reason the child can now speak.
30 hours a week of Psychobabble, over several years, hopeless babies will learn to speak, and can be potty trained.
The normal range for speaking is broad, years, and therapy for the slow half, benefits therapists.
While these claims have been made, I have been asking, what therapy? It seems this is some Professional secret, not subject to peer reviewed science. I see it as teaching babies to walk, and claiming that without professional services, babies would never walk.
Where one child reaches a speech milestone at three, and another the same at four, forceing the delayed one may cause many more development problems later.
My view, there has been no study of adult outcomes, other than claims that they do not exist, are not real, and this experiment on children is being conducted without a background study, other than a claim of a Degree in History, and understanding the real truth of History, as only a Professional can.
It is nothing but dog training tactics being used on children.
This is justified by the same people who make money off of it.
What exists now is what always existed, and of the two stories, Monday Morning armchair Psychobabble, claiming a professional right to cattle prod children for money, or the many who have gone before who say, we just fit in, and are not the strangest people wandering around. I take the latter view.
Treating things that are not a problem, that are within the range of normal human development, and "Normal Human" is a wide range, without making a study of past outcomes, like autism did not exist until some thought to make money off of it.
Fraud, claiming childhood behavior needs professional adult help, drugs, therapy, and the main push I see is to make all of these "Services" billable under insurance. This is Psychobabble Welfare.
No one over thirty has a real Dx, because it never existed before. It is junk science and a catchall, for birth defects, retardation, FAS, and brain damage caused by external adult causes.
The only people who will benefit are Chartities, who are fronts for Psychobabble, who spend money on fake science research, hand picked subjects, the desired answer known, no controls, blind studies, or peer review, same experiment done by others.
Psychobabble makes tax deductable donations to a charity who kicks back money in Grants, to do studies, who's results say more Psychobabble is needed. Thirty hours a week per autistic child is the gravy train, $150,000 a year.
This is a Professional Advertising machine.
Results matter, and here the results are pockets full of money, useless treatments added to everyones cost of insurance, by a lobbying machine for Psychobabble, with some slick New York Marketing.
Science Fraud, Tax Fraud, and blocking the path for any real assistance for anyone not in the target group. Autism defined by others, for others.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
I never claimed that only those who lost speech were real autistics, It doesn't exist in the record here. Please check back, re-read what you may have interpreted as that, and you will see it doesn't exist. I stated these individuals have autism disorder, there are many individuals with autism disorder that do not lose speech per regressive autism.
I haven't been involved in ABA, don't know much about it, I provided a link to information from research that states it is has been studied and found to be effective in some cases. The article did not embellish any facts that I am aware of.
Obviously there is the concern that it is a waste of money for those that it does not help, and the evidence is clear it does not help all children. I would agree it is possible that it could possibly be adversive to a child as well, research is due on that aspect as well.
Regressive Autism is a clinical term to describe children that have some ability to communicate, regress and lose that ability to communicate. All autism Spectrum disorders are considered pervasive developmental disorders, but Regressive Autism a clinical term used specifically as stated above.
12 Dec 2011, 9:50 pm
My main issue with Autism Speaks is the pretension that:
1.) they speak for the Autism community... but they don't. They speak for those with the illusion and perception that those of us on the spectrum are missing out on some supposed "normal" life of supposed "joy" if only, just only, we could be "cured" of this pesky "disease".
2.) the fact that they can convince desperate families and even the government of this impending growing menace of the autism "boogyman" thus they deserve the $25 MILLION they get and can stifle our voices. Almost like McCarthyism with the "impending communist menace" or the "yellow hoard" or the other bigoted gibberish such manipulative power mongers use to hang onto that nice, juicy, fat $25 MILLION DOLLARS which is what REALLY matters to them.
The fact is this: I am an Aspie. I have no illusions of being the popular kid in the room. I use the gifts granted by AS to make my employers profitable so they like to keep me around. I married another person with Aspie traits and we live off the beaten path and spend our time to ourselves and our kids, with no close friends but ourselves. And thats OK with us. We are happy as we define it and Autism Speak's definition doesn't matter to us.
If Autism Speaks were ever to stumble onto some supposed cure we will be sure to promptly refuse. God made me this way, so who am I to try to fit it into some twisted little NT box called "normal". When NTs can stop divorcing each other at a 50% rate or avoid killing another 100 Million people in war like they did last century then they may have a bit of moral ground to talk to me about "normalcy". Other than that I am decidedly not impressed.
_________________
"Honey Badger Don't Care..."
13 Dec 2011, 2:01 pm
aghogday wrote:
Inventor wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Autistic adults are the main byproduct of autistic children.
Now Marketing, Grandparents, Parents, Psych Majors, and Charities can claim to be experts, but only one group has lived it.
I was fine as a child, except the reaction of experts, Teachers, Preachers, Neighborhood busybodies, who just had to mention that I was different, and should be burned at the stake.
So I see that same group now posting about how it is about autistic children who need to be fixed, and the adults who they became can just shut up.
By the numbers, which have been avoided, one in a hundred is not going to spend their life being non verbal in an institution. That may be the reality for 1% of the autistic, but the rest will just grow out of it as they always have.
Fear Mongering by Marketing. Using hopeless cases for poster children, focus on the rare worst outcomes, and dismissing the rest as not being "Real Autistics."
That Reality is only the view of Charities who Market misinformation for a living.
Intense treatment of the most disabled has not been shown to produce results. About the only thing that did work was getting their fingers on a keyboard.
In my personal experence, the most important things about me were my hand writing, and making eye contact. Animals four times my size yelled at me and told me how worthless I was, and I could sit there till I could write Cursive like they just learnt me. There was a constant threat, I am big and important, I can do anything I want, you are nobody.
Now I am being told I am worthless because I survived anyway.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
Now Marketing, Grandparents, Parents, Psych Majors, and Charities can claim to be experts, but only one group has lived it.
I was fine as a child, except the reaction of experts, Teachers, Preachers, Neighborhood busybodies, who just had to mention that I was different, and should be burned at the stake.
So I see that same group now posting about how it is about autistic children who need to be fixed, and the adults who they became can just shut up.
By the numbers, which have been avoided, one in a hundred is not going to spend their life being non verbal in an institution. That may be the reality for 1% of the autistic, but the rest will just grow out of it as they always have.
Fear Mongering by Marketing. Using hopeless cases for poster children, focus on the rare worst outcomes, and dismissing the rest as not being "Real Autistics."
That Reality is only the view of Charities who Market misinformation for a living.
Intense treatment of the most disabled has not been shown to produce results. About the only thing that did work was getting their fingers on a keyboard.
In my personal experence, the most important things about me were my hand writing, and making eye contact. Animals four times my size yelled at me and told me how worthless I was, and I could sit there till I could write Cursive like they just learnt me. There was a constant threat, I am big and important, I can do anything I want, you are nobody.
Now I am being told I am worthless because I survived anyway.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
The reality, of those who are diagnosed and identified as such, the 1 in 110, are eight year olds, for the most part that are in special education classes for the developmentally delayed, per government methodology of measuring ASD's.
The government estimates as many as 500,000 of these identified children will need support into adulthood in the coming decade, as they transition into adult life.
Most will be accommodated by their parents, as the available statistics on identified autistic adults suggest now; the 80% that rely on parents and 90% that don't hold steady employment.
There are likely many more individuals with autistic traits; up to 30%, many which function okay in adulthood, but these are not the individuals diagnosed and identified, where the concern of government and charities lie.
It is those 8 year olds in schools for the developmentally disabled, the ones that are for the most part, identified in the 1 in 110.
For many of those who have "grown out of it", they likely don't have a diagnosis, or have any idea that autism could possibly apply to them. For many of those individuals autism speaks likely doesn't mean much more than a puzzle icon they glanced at on the bumper of car.
Problem is, as recent research in the UK, indicates, where autism was studied in a cross section of the country, and identified in 1 percent of the adult population, many of those unaware of their autism, had definitely not "grown out of it", and were experiencing struggles to survive in life.
This, however was not a measure of the broader phenotype of autism reported much further out into the population.
Those people that do experience their autism as a disability, who do not "grow out of it" need diagnosis, identification, and support where possible and appropriate.
Behavioral therapy has shown to be effective in some developmentally disabled children with Autism, from recent research.:
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/medical/autism/story/2011/04/Research-Autism-treatments-fall-short/45725852/1
Quote:
•Behavioral therapy, which can last more than 30 hours a week, helps some children to talk more, improve their behavior and boost their scores on intelligence tests, the analyses show.
That's an important finding, given that doctors once thought autistic children had no hope of improvement, says Leonard Rappaport of Children's Hospital Boston, who wasn't involved in the new articles.
That's an important finding, given that doctors once thought autistic children had no hope of improvement, says Leonard Rappaport of Children's Hospital Boston, who wasn't involved in the new articles.
Quote:
Doctors are trying to do a better job of diagnosing babies and toddlers who are at high risk of autism, such as younger siblings of autistic children. About one in five of these younger siblings will also have autism, Rappaport says.
In the future, doctors may be able to develop more effective therapies based on discoveries about the genetics of autism, which may allow them to prescribe therapy targeted to a child's specific problem, Rappaport says.
In the future, doctors may be able to develop more effective therapies based on discoveries about the genetics of autism, which may allow them to prescribe therapy targeted to a child's specific problem, Rappaport says.
While there is at least one other site, where autistic adults voices have been censored by authority for differences in opinions, or just for looking too much. There is no significant evidence here that I see of anyone asking adult autistics to shut up.
And it does not appear to be something that is happening, on Autism Speaks Support group sites. The evidence is clear. All one has to do, is go there and look, and one can see offensive remarks made about that organization, by adult autistics, that remain on their support sites, uncensored.
A short while ago you claimed only those who lost speach were real autistics, Regressive Autism. Others claimed that only children counted, which here combines to 30 hours a week of Behavioral therapy @$3,000 a week as being the new goal.
All Autism is regressive, at the least a developmental delay, and even those fakers with Asperger's without language delay, still meet three other criteria. 30 hours of therapy or nothing, those with language delay will start to speak. If the Witch Doctor shakes the bone and feather rattle over them, that is of course the reason the child can now speak.
30 hours a week of Psychobabble, over several years, hopeless babies will learn to speak, and can be potty trained.
The normal range for speaking is broad, years, and therapy for the slow half, benefits therapists.
While these claims have been made, I have been asking, what therapy? It seems this is some Professional secret, not subject to peer reviewed science. I see it as teaching babies to walk, and claiming that without professional services, babies would never walk.
Where one child reaches a speech milestone at three, and another the same at four, forceing the delayed one may cause many more development problems later.
My view, there has been no study of adult outcomes, other than claims that they do not exist, are not real, and this experiment on children is being conducted without a background study, other than a claim of a Degree in History, and understanding the real truth of History, as only a Professional can.
It is nothing but dog training tactics being used on children.
This is justified by the same people who make money off of it.
What exists now is what always existed, and of the two stories, Monday Morning armchair Psychobabble, claiming a professional right to cattle prod children for money, or the many who have gone before who say, we just fit in, and are not the strangest people wandering around. I take the latter view.
Treating things that are not a problem, that are within the range of normal human development, and "Normal Human" is a wide range, without making a study of past outcomes, like autism did not exist until some thought to make money off of it.
Fraud, claiming childhood behavior needs professional adult help, drugs, therapy, and the main push I see is to make all of these "Services" billable under insurance. This is Psychobabble Welfare.
No one over thirty has a real Dx, because it never existed before. It is junk science and a catchall, for birth defects, retardation, FAS, and brain damage caused by external adult causes.
The only people who will benefit are Chartities, who are fronts for Psychobabble, who spend money on fake science research, hand picked subjects, the desired answer known, no controls, blind studies, or peer review, same experiment done by others.
Psychobabble makes tax deductable donations to a charity who kicks back money in Grants, to do studies, who's results say more Psychobabble is needed. Thirty hours a week per autistic child is the gravy train, $150,000 a year.
This is a Professional Advertising machine.
Results matter, and here the results are pockets full of money, useless treatments added to everyones cost of insurance, by a lobbying machine for Psychobabble, with some slick New York Marketing.
Science Fraud, Tax Fraud, and blocking the path for any real assistance for anyone not in the target group. Autism defined by others, for others.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
I never claimed that only those who lost speech were real autistics, It doesn't exist in the record here. Please check back, re-read what you may have interpreted as that, and you will see it doesn't exist. I stated these individuals have autism disorder, there are many individuals with autism disorder that do not lose speech per regressive autism.
I haven't been involved in ABA, don't know much about it, I provided a link to information from research that states it is has been studied and found to be effective in some cases. The article did not embellish any facts that I am aware of.
Obviously there is the concern that it is a waste of money for those that it does not help, and the evidence is clear it does not help all children. I would agree it is possible that it could possibly be adversive to a child as well, research is due on that aspect as well.
Regressive Autism is a clinical term to describe children that have some ability to communicate, regress and lose that ability to communicate. All autism Spectrum disorders are considered pervasive developmental disorders, but Regressive Autism a clinical term used specifically as stated above.
All Autism is Regressive, seemly normal development till about three, then regression, loss of skills developed, delayed, speech and other milestones reached at a later date, or those talkative Asperger Types, who's mouth continues while their social interaction sinks. Speech does not measure the severity. Stopping speaking compared to never speaking, or never stopping in Aspergers.
That it is obvious as a regression, is what was behind the vaccine connection. It is not some Professionally defined Class, it is the defining issue of Autism.
If left alone, many will start speaking, Aspergers will not shut up, and it is about the same for eye contact, interacting with others, most will develop after a delay.
Not everyone without autism is talkative, outgoing, Many introvert children hardly ever speak. They are just called Shy. They do not make noise, prefer to play in their room alone, and in the case of girls who discover books, may spend eight to sixteen in their room.
No Professional Help is needed, and when confronted, made to speak, interact, many an Introvert will have Gut Problems, hyper ventiation, Barf, cry, or run off.
Professional Parentism has treated this for generations with a doll or teddy, a blanket and pillow, and reading stories about happy little bears who find their way out of being lost in the big woods.
What is being proposed for Autistic children is much worse than signing up that introvert child for Toast Masters so they can overcome their fear of public speaking. It is not one thing, they also fear other people, adults, and just being looked at can send them into meltdown.
Shy children can just freeze, have panic attacks, lose bladder control, just from being called upon by a teacher in school. We have to consider them normal.
They also have problems with eye contact, more often by activly looking in someones eyes, and an empathy problem with being able to read eye messages, but having no understanding of the message in adult eyes.
The adult may have other intent, but the child reads the eyes as hostile and threatening. That in connection with being much larger, and in a position of power, can lead to a panic attack.
These we call normal children, Parents and teachers are very familiar with the type. We call it childhood, and the entire world is adjusted to their needs, or there is a lot of cleaning up to be done.
Psychobabble seems to have missed normal, and is over reacting about the autistic who should be treated as extra shy.
This alien world and behavior modification, is not a good idea. My last kid, a girl, had some friends that I drove around, and never spoke to or looked at. I only spoke to her, she said where people sat, and fastened seat belts, and told me when I could drive.
Some of them were bold, and after six months even said hello to me. These were normal little girls of six to nine.
I took the word of my expert girl, told her she could run it or they all rode in the trunk, and they set the standards of behavior. I could drive the car, not look at them, speak to them, open the car door, tell them where to sit or fasten seat belts.
What adults take for granted, is what my kid saw as annoying behavior. Her dad died when she was five, she asked me to take care of her, and I agreed, but said I knew nothing about it, and she would have to tell me what to do. She liked the idea. Twenty years later she still likes the idea.
What I learned, from recent normal children, shy little girls, is how much they live in fear. Everyone else is larger, stronger, and they are even weak in the world of little girls. They are dependant on the good intentions of others. I was needed, as a driver, emergency medical, life guard at the pool, food supply, adult roles.
I was not wanted to speak thier names, look at them, speak directly to them, look them in the eye, or get anywhere near them. Even opening and closing the car door was out, and forget telling them where to sit and fastening their seat belt. They were in a new situation, on the edge of a panic attack, and barely keeping it together.
I mention them as they remind me of autistic children, and animals I have worked with that were mistreated by humans.
With horses and dogs it is behavior modification by humans who did not know what they were doing that caused the problems. In all cases just being around strange humans causes stress.
Humans can let you know that something about you is wrong, It is impossible to figure out. So mom went to the Autism Speaks web site, and now looks at you different, and you did not do anything. Next you get sent to strange humans who stare at you, demand you do things, and force you to do things you do not understand. They are not safe or friendly.
Stress levels go up, function goes down, and if continued, it leads to an emotional outburst, for children, dogs, horses, have no other defense. Like dogs and horses, autistic children are known to bite.
I find it is possible to get along with them all.
I object to this view that some superior human should fix, cure, control, what is easy to make friends with.
It will also have to be admitted that for a Billion spent, Autism Speaks has helped no one but themselves.
If they were working horses they would have been found crushed in the stall. Dogs, they would be torn to shreads, and adult autistics would likely trample them.
Dogs and horses both laugh, we will have the last laugh.
13 Dec 2011, 3:14 pm
Inventor wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Inventor wrote:
aghogday wrote:
Inventor wrote:
Autistic adults are the main byproduct of autistic children.
Now Marketing, Grandparents, Parents, Psych Majors, and Charities can claim to be experts, but only one group has lived it.
I was fine as a child, except the reaction of experts, Teachers, Preachers, Neighborhood busybodies, who just had to mention that I was different, and should be burned at the stake.
So I see that same group now posting about how it is about autistic children who need to be fixed, and the adults who they became can just shut up.
By the numbers, which have been avoided, one in a hundred is not going to spend their life being non verbal in an institution. That may be the reality for 1% of the autistic, but the rest will just grow out of it as they always have.
Fear Mongering by Marketing. Using hopeless cases for poster children, focus on the rare worst outcomes, and dismissing the rest as not being "Real Autistics."
That Reality is only the view of Charities who Market misinformation for a living.
Intense treatment of the most disabled has not been shown to produce results. About the only thing that did work was getting their fingers on a keyboard.
In my personal experence, the most important things about me were my hand writing, and making eye contact. Animals four times my size yelled at me and told me how worthless I was, and I could sit there till I could write Cursive like they just learnt me. There was a constant threat, I am big and important, I can do anything I want, you are nobody.
Now I am being told I am worthless because I survived anyway.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
Now Marketing, Grandparents, Parents, Psych Majors, and Charities can claim to be experts, but only one group has lived it.
I was fine as a child, except the reaction of experts, Teachers, Preachers, Neighborhood busybodies, who just had to mention that I was different, and should be burned at the stake.
So I see that same group now posting about how it is about autistic children who need to be fixed, and the adults who they became can just shut up.
By the numbers, which have been avoided, one in a hundred is not going to spend their life being non verbal in an institution. That may be the reality for 1% of the autistic, but the rest will just grow out of it as they always have.
Fear Mongering by Marketing. Using hopeless cases for poster children, focus on the rare worst outcomes, and dismissing the rest as not being "Real Autistics."
That Reality is only the view of Charities who Market misinformation for a living.
Intense treatment of the most disabled has not been shown to produce results. About the only thing that did work was getting their fingers on a keyboard.
In my personal experence, the most important things about me were my hand writing, and making eye contact. Animals four times my size yelled at me and told me how worthless I was, and I could sit there till I could write Cursive like they just learnt me. There was a constant threat, I am big and important, I can do anything I want, you are nobody.
Now I am being told I am worthless because I survived anyway.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
The reality, of those who are diagnosed and identified as such, the 1 in 110, are eight year olds, for the most part that are in special education classes for the developmentally delayed, per government methodology of measuring ASD's.
The government estimates as many as 500,000 of these identified children will need support into adulthood in the coming decade, as they transition into adult life.
Most will be accommodated by their parents, as the available statistics on identified autistic adults suggest now; the 80% that rely on parents and 90% that don't hold steady employment.
There are likely many more individuals with autistic traits; up to 30%, many which function okay in adulthood, but these are not the individuals diagnosed and identified, where the concern of government and charities lie.
It is those 8 year olds in schools for the developmentally disabled, the ones that are for the most part, identified in the 1 in 110.
For many of those who have "grown out of it", they likely don't have a diagnosis, or have any idea that autism could possibly apply to them. For many of those individuals autism speaks likely doesn't mean much more than a puzzle icon they glanced at on the bumper of car.
Problem is, as recent research in the UK, indicates, where autism was studied in a cross section of the country, and identified in 1 percent of the adult population, many of those unaware of their autism, had definitely not "grown out of it", and were experiencing struggles to survive in life.
This, however was not a measure of the broader phenotype of autism reported much further out into the population.
Those people that do experience their autism as a disability, who do not "grow out of it" need diagnosis, identification, and support where possible and appropriate.
Behavioral therapy has shown to be effective in some developmentally disabled children with Autism, from recent research.:
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/health/medical/autism/story/2011/04/Research-Autism-treatments-fall-short/45725852/1
Quote:
•Behavioral therapy, which can last more than 30 hours a week, helps some children to talk more, improve their behavior and boost their scores on intelligence tests, the analyses show.
That's an important finding, given that doctors once thought autistic children had no hope of improvement, says Leonard Rappaport of Children's Hospital Boston, who wasn't involved in the new articles.
That's an important finding, given that doctors once thought autistic children had no hope of improvement, says Leonard Rappaport of Children's Hospital Boston, who wasn't involved in the new articles.
Quote:
Doctors are trying to do a better job of diagnosing babies and toddlers who are at high risk of autism, such as younger siblings of autistic children. About one in five of these younger siblings will also have autism, Rappaport says.
In the future, doctors may be able to develop more effective therapies based on discoveries about the genetics of autism, which may allow them to prescribe therapy targeted to a child's specific problem, Rappaport says.
In the future, doctors may be able to develop more effective therapies based on discoveries about the genetics of autism, which may allow them to prescribe therapy targeted to a child's specific problem, Rappaport says.
While there is at least one other site, where autistic adults voices have been censored by authority for differences in opinions, or just for looking too much. There is no significant evidence here that I see of anyone asking adult autistics to shut up.
And it does not appear to be something that is happening, on Autism Speaks Support group sites. The evidence is clear. All one has to do, is go there and look, and one can see offensive remarks made about that organization, by adult autistics, that remain on their support sites, uncensored.
A short while ago you claimed only those who lost speach were real autistics, Regressive Autism. Others claimed that only children counted, which here combines to 30 hours a week of Behavioral therapy @$3,000 a week as being the new goal.
All Autism is regressive, at the least a developmental delay, and even those fakers with Asperger's without language delay, still meet three other criteria. 30 hours of therapy or nothing, those with language delay will start to speak. If the Witch Doctor shakes the bone and feather rattle over them, that is of course the reason the child can now speak.
30 hours a week of Psychobabble, over several years, hopeless babies will learn to speak, and can be potty trained.
The normal range for speaking is broad, years, and therapy for the slow half, benefits therapists.
While these claims have been made, I have been asking, what therapy? It seems this is some Professional secret, not subject to peer reviewed science. I see it as teaching babies to walk, and claiming that without professional services, babies would never walk.
Where one child reaches a speech milestone at three, and another the same at four, forceing the delayed one may cause many more development problems later.
My view, there has been no study of adult outcomes, other than claims that they do not exist, are not real, and this experiment on children is being conducted without a background study, other than a claim of a Degree in History, and understanding the real truth of History, as only a Professional can.
It is nothing but dog training tactics being used on children.
This is justified by the same people who make money off of it.
What exists now is what always existed, and of the two stories, Monday Morning armchair Psychobabble, claiming a professional right to cattle prod children for money, or the many who have gone before who say, we just fit in, and are not the strangest people wandering around. I take the latter view.
Treating things that are not a problem, that are within the range of normal human development, and "Normal Human" is a wide range, without making a study of past outcomes, like autism did not exist until some thought to make money off of it.
Fraud, claiming childhood behavior needs professional adult help, drugs, therapy, and the main push I see is to make all of these "Services" billable under insurance. This is Psychobabble Welfare.
No one over thirty has a real Dx, because it never existed before. It is junk science and a catchall, for birth defects, retardation, FAS, and brain damage caused by external adult causes.
The only people who will benefit are Chartities, who are fronts for Psychobabble, who spend money on fake science research, hand picked subjects, the desired answer known, no controls, blind studies, or peer review, same experiment done by others.
Psychobabble makes tax deductable donations to a charity who kicks back money in Grants, to do studies, who's results say more Psychobabble is needed. Thirty hours a week per autistic child is the gravy train, $150,000 a year.
This is a Professional Advertising machine.
Results matter, and here the results are pockets full of money, useless treatments added to everyones cost of insurance, by a lobbying machine for Psychobabble, with some slick New York Marketing.
Science Fraud, Tax Fraud, and blocking the path for any real assistance for anyone not in the target group. Autism defined by others, for others.
Fraud, the misrepresentation of a material fact for personal gain.
I never claimed that only those who lost speech were real autistics, It doesn't exist in the record here. Please check back, re-read what you may have interpreted as that, and you will see it doesn't exist. I stated these individuals have autism disorder, there are many individuals with autism disorder that do not lose speech per regressive autism.
I haven't been involved in ABA, don't know much about it, I provided a link to information from research that states it is has been studied and found to be effective in some cases. The article did not embellish any facts that I am aware of.
Obviously there is the concern that it is a waste of money for those that it does not help, and the evidence is clear it does not help all children. I would agree it is possible that it could possibly be adversive to a child as well, research is due on that aspect as well.
Regressive Autism is a clinical term to describe children that have some ability to communicate, regress and lose that ability to communicate. All autism Spectrum disorders are considered pervasive developmental disorders, but Regressive Autism a clinical term used specifically as stated above.
All Autism is Regressive, seemly normal development till about three, then regression, loss of skills developed, delayed, speech and other milestones reached at a later date, or those talkative Asperger Types, who's mouth continues while their social interaction sinks. Speech does not measure the severity. Stopping speaking compared to never speaking, or never stopping in Aspergers.
That it is obvious as a regression, is what was behind the vaccine connection. It is not some Professionally defined Class, it is the defining issue of Autism.
If left alone, many will start speaking, Aspergers will not shut up, and it is about the same for eye contact, interacting with others, most will develop after a delay.
Not everyone without autism is talkative, outgoing, Many introvert children hardly ever speak. They are just called Shy. They do not make noise, prefer to play in their room alone, and in the case of girls who discover books, may spend eight to sixteen in their room.
No Professional Help is needed, and when confronted, made to speak, interact, many an Introvert will have Gut Problems, hyper ventiation, Barf, cry, or run off.
Professional Parentism has treated this for generations with a doll or teddy, a blanket and pillow, and reading stories about happy little bears who find their way out of being lost in the big woods.
What is being proposed for Autistic children is much worse than signing up that introvert child for Toast Masters so they can overcome their fear of public speaking. It is not one thing, they also fear other people, adults, and just being looked at can send them into meltdown.
Shy children can just freeze, have panic attacks, lose bladder control, just from being called upon by a teacher in school. We have to consider them normal.
They also have problems with eye contact, more often by activly looking in someones eyes, and an empathy problem with being able to read eye messages, but having no understanding of the message in adult eyes.
The adult may have other intent, but the child reads the eyes as hostile and threatening. That in connection with being much larger, and in a position of power, can lead to a panic attack.
These we call normal children, Parents and teachers are very familiar with the type. We call it childhood, and the entire world is adjusted to their needs, or there is a lot of cleaning up to be done.
Psychobabble seems to have missed normal, and is over reacting about the autistic who should be treated as extra shy.
This alien world and behavior modification, is not a good idea. My last kid, a girl, had some friends that I drove around, and never spoke to or looked at. I only spoke to her, she said where people sat, and fastened seat belts, and told me when I could drive.
Some of them were bold, and after six months even said hello to me. These were normal little girls of six to nine.
I took the word of my expert girl, told her she could run it or they all rode in the trunk, and they set the standards of behavior. I could drive the car, not look at them, speak to them, open the car door, tell them where to sit or fasten seat belts.
What adults take for granted, is what my kid saw as annoying behavior. Her dad died when she was five, she asked me to take care of her, and I agreed, but said I knew nothing about it, and she would have to tell me what to do. She liked the idea. Twenty years later she still likes the idea.
What I learned, from recent normal children, shy little girls, is how much they live in fear. Everyone else is larger, stronger, and they are even weak in the world of little girls. They are dependant on the good intentions of others. I was needed, as a driver, emergency medical, life guard at the pool, food supply, adult roles.
I was not wanted to speak thier names, look at them, speak directly to them, look them in the eye, or get anywhere near them. Even opening and closing the car door was out, and forget telling them where to sit and fastening their seat belt. They were in a new situation, on the edge of a panic attack, and barely keeping it together.
I mention them as they remind me of autistic children, and animals I have worked with that were mistreated by humans.
With horses and dogs it is behavior modification by humans who did not know what they were doing that caused the problems. In all cases just being around strange humans causes stress.
Humans can let you know that something about you is wrong, It is impossible to figure out. So mom went to the Autism Speaks web site, and now looks at you different, and you did not do anything. Next you get sent to strange humans who stare at you, demand you do things, and force you to do things you do not understand. They are not safe or friendly.
Stress levels go up, function goes down, and if continued, it leads to an emotional outburst, for children, dogs, horses, have no other defense. Like dogs and horses, autistic children are known to bite.
I find it is possible to get along with them all.
I object to this view that some superior human should fix, cure, control, what is easy to make friends with.
It will also have to be admitted that for a Billion spent, Autism Speaks has helped no one but themselves.
If they were working horses they would have been found crushed in the stall. Dogs, they would be torn to shreads, and adult autistics would likely trample them.
Dogs and horses both laugh, we will have the last laugh.
I wasn't providing my opinion on Regressive autism, I was providing what is known from peer reviewed research about regressive autism. There is no scientific research or opinion that I have been able to find that suggests that all autism is regressive.
Fifty percent is the highest that was reported in 1979, before DSM criteria for Autism was even available; that statistic is reported below, but obviously no longer a valid statistic since the spectrum of ASD's has increased since that time.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2857525/?tool=pmcentrez
Quote:
In clinically ascertained samples, regression has been found in as low as 20% (Lord, 1995) and as high as 50% (DeMyer, 1979) of participants, with two moderately sized studies finding rates around 30% (Kurita, 1985; Tuchman & Rapin, 1997). Two recent epidemiological studies found regression in 15.6% (Fombonne & Chakrabarti, 2001) and 27% (Lingam et al., 2003) of large population-based samples. Regression is most often observed between the first and second birthday, with mean ages of regression reported across different samples between 16 and 20 months (Fombonne & Chakrabarti, 2001; Goldberg et al., 2003; Kurita, 1985; Ozonoff et al., 2005; Shinnar et al., 2001).
As far as ABA goes, there are some parents that have found therapists, and just the correct amount where their children are responding well to the treatment, and are reported to be improving and happier as a result of it. There are whole threads about it here that are as controversial as any pro/con discussion on autism speaks.
In general for many different purposes, thousands of studies have shown it to be effective in the last 30 years, but it only works for some autistic children as reported in the link I provided, and the only current treatment shown to have effective results for autistic children.
I've seen the therapy reported as demonized and reported as a life changer for some children. I don't see that at all surprising because of the research that shows it works for some and doesn't work for others.
I'm glad I wasn't subjected to this therapy as a non-verbal young child, however I was not banging my head on the wall; no one is going to convince a parent whose child benefitted from the therapy and no longer bangs their head on the wall, that the therapy is not beneficial.
That's an extreme example of an issue, but if it is the only thing that works; I don't have an alternative suggestion.
13 Dec 2011, 5:42 pm
i dont think all autism is regressive.CDD and the "lame duck" retts disorder are regressive.but even retts disorder which is not considered autism anymore,only the loss of use of the hands is regressive.girls with retts, social skills continue to improve through out life.this is likely the reason for retts being declasified as autism,for by the twenties the disability is primarily physical
_________________
Forever gone
Sorry I ever joined
15 Dec 2011, 11:48 pm
As for the therapies approved in thousands of studies over the last thirty years, Thorizine, Ice Water Baths, Restraints, Electroshock, ABA has caused the least deaths and law suit payouts.
Up until 1974 locking people up for life on the word of Psychobabble was Standard.
Back in the 50's it was LSD injections, and electroshock, Professional treatments, without legal recourse.
The largest drug crime ever, and the largest fine, was from Psychobabble taking kickbacks to use drugs off label on autistics.
These studies claim it was 20%, 50%, maybe 30% unless it was 17.5%. which shows why Psych is not considered a Science.
What is being said for ABA is just what was said for the belt. It works on some children. Or it could be said, it works for some parents.
While studies go back to ,"Spare the rod and spoil the child," and a million Rabbis have commented on it, it has still not been defined as a Science.
The history of the last hundred years toward autism, has been what form of punishment works best. It is a more extended version of usual child rearing practice. Professionals have long been used, Nurse, Nanny, Governess, all of which used a riding crop, which lead to schools where corporal punishment was standard fare. As this was best for all normal children, a stronger version was seen as the answer for children with "Behavior Problems."
I cite recent stories of treatment in Church run orphanages in Ireland. For hundreds of years this group supplied what Psych has only recently tried to turn Secular. ABA developed and perfected by wild eyed Nuns with leather straps is well documented in current legal actions, and so is it's support up to the top, Our Holy Father, The Panzer Pope.
It did work, in that those who survived were conditioned in a way Skinner would be proud of, and the failures seem to have vanished with all records of their existance, into unmarked graves.
It was an improvment on prior practice, like the English Convent found with thousands of infant skeletons in the celler. Later orphanages raised some of the children as sellable stock.
Early private institutions for orphans and defective children, behavior problems, all seem to have a graveyard on the property, cause of death listed by the same people as ran the institution, and rapid private burial without outside examination of the body.
What we have learned from the Irish children, is some children were sent to another institution, which was a threat they all lived under, but there is no record of this instituion ever existing. There is no further record of the missing children. This is documented up until the 1950's.
American institutions continued till the 1970's, with no questions about cause of death, as it was overseen by a Doctor. From the survivors we do know something about the Experiments run in the name of Science, many funded by the CIA from the 40's to the 70's. Enhanced Interrogation Methods were developed on children in mental Institutes. The question of how far they could go before the subject died, or was mentally dead, was developed as a science.
There were also experiments run in prisons, and Bio Warfare Tests.
This is the Foundation of Psychology. It was a nothing until the work developed in Concentration Camps was discovered, The Brainwashing of Korea, then it became a branch of Military Science. Psych Warfare, was developed and tested in the mental institutions of America.
Methods of conditioning Autistic children also have applications in manipulating the whole population. There should be no secret about what works on shy children, what they claim could be of use to K-4 Teachers.
Because it is treated as a secret, done by Professionals behind locked Security doors, out of sight of all, and by people with a history of being funded by Drug Companies and the CIA, who are only reviewed by each other, I question the new story.
What I have been able to gather, it is the same brainwashing that gets people into Cults, or out of Cults, Psychology as Marketing, just seeing what you can get people to believe. It has the same adversive reinforcment as dog training. The Judge's Center for Electroshock is the main example.
Just judging from what has been shown to work, Sister Angelica of the Strap had a whole generation of children bare their bottom and grab thier ankles without complaint. Skinner documented it as Science, later it was called Stockholm Syndrome, and Kraft Ebbing documented adult outcomes.
As someone said, "When your only tool is a hammer, all problems look like nails."
16 Dec 2011, 1:09 am
Inventor wrote:
As for the therapies approved in thousands of studies over the last thirty years, Thorizine, Ice Water Baths, Restraints, Electroshock, ABA has caused the least deaths and law suit payouts.
Up until 1974 locking people up for life on the word of Psychobabble was Standard.
Back in the 50's it was LSD injections, and electroshock, Professional treatments, without legal recourse.
The largest drug crime ever, and the largest fine, was from Psychobabble taking kickbacks to use drugs off label on autistics.
These studies claim it was 20%, 50%, maybe 30% unless it was 17.5%. which shows why Psych is not considered a Science.
What is being said for ABA is just what was said for the belt. It works on some children. Or it could be said, it works for some parents.
While studies go back to ,"Spare the rod and spoil the child," and a million Rabbis have commented on it, it has still not been defined as a Science.
The history of the last hundred years toward autism, has been what form of punishment works best. It is a more extended version of usual child rearing practice. Professionals have long been used, Nurse, Nanny, Governess, all of which used a riding crop, which lead to schools where corporal punishment was standard fare. As this was best for all normal children, a stronger version was seen as the answer for children with "Behavior Problems."
I cite recent stories of treatment in Church run orphanages in Ireland. For hundreds of years this group supplied what Psych has only recently tried to turn Secular. ABA developed and perfected by wild eyed Nuns with leather straps is well documented in current legal actions, and so is it's support up to the top, Our Holy Father, The Panzer Pope.
It did work, in that those who survived were conditioned in a way Skinner would be proud of, and the failures seem to have vanished with all records of their existance, into unmarked graves.
It was an improvment on prior practice, like the English Convent found with thousands of infant skeletons in the celler. Later orphanages raised some of the children as sellable stock.
Early private institutions for orphans and defective children, behavior problems, all seem to have a graveyard on the property, cause of death listed by the same people as ran the institution, and rapid private burial without outside examination of the body.
What we have learned from the Irish children, is some children were sent to another institution, which was a threat they all lived under, but there is no record of this instituion ever existing. There is no further record of the missing children. This is documented up until the 1950's.
American institutions continued till the 1970's, with no questions about cause of death, as it was overseen by a Doctor. From the survivors we do know something about the Experiments run in the name of Science, many funded by the CIA from the 40's to the 70's. Enhanced Interrogation Methods were developed on children in mental Institutes. The question of how far they could go before the subject died, or was mentally dead, was developed as a science.
There were also experiments run in prisons, and Bio Warfare Tests.
This is the Foundation of Psychology. It was a nothing until the work developed in Concentration Camps was discovered, The Brainwashing of Korea, then it became a branch of Military Science. Psych Warfare, was developed and tested in the mental institutions of America.
Methods of conditioning Autistic children also have applications in manipulating the whole population. There should be no secret about what works on shy children, what they claim could be of use to K-4 Teachers.
Because it is treated as a secret, done by Professionals behind locked Security doors, out of sight of all, and by people with a history of being funded by Drug Companies and the CIA, who are only reviewed by each other, I question the new story.
What I have been able to gather, it is the same brainwashing that gets people into Cults, or out of Cults, Psychology as Marketing, just seeing what you can get people to believe. It has the same adversive reinforcment as dog training. The Judge's Center for Electroshock is the main example.
Just judging from what has been shown to work, Sister Angelica of the Strap had a whole generation of children bare their bottom and grab thier ankles without complaint. Skinner documented it as Science, later it was called Stockholm Syndrome, and Kraft Ebbing documented adult outcomes.
As someone said, "When your only tool is a hammer, all problems look like nails."
Up until 1974 locking people up for life on the word of Psychobabble was Standard.
Back in the 50's it was LSD injections, and electroshock, Professional treatments, without legal recourse.
The largest drug crime ever, and the largest fine, was from Psychobabble taking kickbacks to use drugs off label on autistics.
These studies claim it was 20%, 50%, maybe 30% unless it was 17.5%. which shows why Psych is not considered a Science.
What is being said for ABA is just what was said for the belt. It works on some children. Or it could be said, it works for some parents.
While studies go back to ,"Spare the rod and spoil the child," and a million Rabbis have commented on it, it has still not been defined as a Science.
The history of the last hundred years toward autism, has been what form of punishment works best. It is a more extended version of usual child rearing practice. Professionals have long been used, Nurse, Nanny, Governess, all of which used a riding crop, which lead to schools where corporal punishment was standard fare. As this was best for all normal children, a stronger version was seen as the answer for children with "Behavior Problems."
I cite recent stories of treatment in Church run orphanages in Ireland. For hundreds of years this group supplied what Psych has only recently tried to turn Secular. ABA developed and perfected by wild eyed Nuns with leather straps is well documented in current legal actions, and so is it's support up to the top, Our Holy Father, The Panzer Pope.
It did work, in that those who survived were conditioned in a way Skinner would be proud of, and the failures seem to have vanished with all records of their existance, into unmarked graves.
It was an improvment on prior practice, like the English Convent found with thousands of infant skeletons in the celler. Later orphanages raised some of the children as sellable stock.
Early private institutions for orphans and defective children, behavior problems, all seem to have a graveyard on the property, cause of death listed by the same people as ran the institution, and rapid private burial without outside examination of the body.
What we have learned from the Irish children, is some children were sent to another institution, which was a threat they all lived under, but there is no record of this instituion ever existing. There is no further record of the missing children. This is documented up until the 1950's.
American institutions continued till the 1970's, with no questions about cause of death, as it was overseen by a Doctor. From the survivors we do know something about the Experiments run in the name of Science, many funded by the CIA from the 40's to the 70's. Enhanced Interrogation Methods were developed on children in mental Institutes. The question of how far they could go before the subject died, or was mentally dead, was developed as a science.
There were also experiments run in prisons, and Bio Warfare Tests.
This is the Foundation of Psychology. It was a nothing until the work developed in Concentration Camps was discovered, The Brainwashing of Korea, then it became a branch of Military Science. Psych Warfare, was developed and tested in the mental institutions of America.
Methods of conditioning Autistic children also have applications in manipulating the whole population. There should be no secret about what works on shy children, what they claim could be of use to K-4 Teachers.
Because it is treated as a secret, done by Professionals behind locked Security doors, out of sight of all, and by people with a history of being funded by Drug Companies and the CIA, who are only reviewed by each other, I question the new story.
What I have been able to gather, it is the same brainwashing that gets people into Cults, or out of Cults, Psychology as Marketing, just seeing what you can get people to believe. It has the same adversive reinforcment as dog training. The Judge's Center for Electroshock is the main example.
Just judging from what has been shown to work, Sister Angelica of the Strap had a whole generation of children bare their bottom and grab thier ankles without complaint. Skinner documented it as Science, later it was called Stockholm Syndrome, and Kraft Ebbing documented adult outcomes.
As someone said, "When your only tool is a hammer, all problems look like nails."
I remember taking Behavior Modification Courses in Psychology back in the 80's. My teacher said she found a husband by putting a Rubber Band around her wrist and popping herself everytime she was too shy to speak to an eligible bachelor.
I suppose my largest problem with it, was at that point in life I set myself above the animal kingdom, and felt like just because it worked with dogs, doesn't mean it would work with me, in my special human armor.
For the most part animals, including humans live on the basis of actions and consequence/results. Those more likely to survive choose actions in anticipation of positive results, based on experience.
Intermittent reinforcement being the strongest reinforcement for action, obviously, because one must work harder to gain the positive result; the closest approximation to the reality of life in the wild, and thousands of years of evolution.
There are lessons of value to be learned by the science of behavior modification, I think, that reflect our animal natures, and the natural process of action and consequence.
The primate pressing the bar for cocaine and/or sugar, with the availability of instant gratification, often leads to eventual negative results.
Prolonged instant gratification, is a fairly phenomenon in animal nature, a manmade one available through culture.
And potentially a significant contributing factor to the general level of mental illness in cultures where instant gratification is a way life.
I suggest that modern culture as a whole, is in someways a behavioral modification experiment, for the part of the human species that participates wittingly or unwittingly.
Everything marketed and associated with sex, sugar, or fatty foods, engaging the opiate reward system, along with stimulatory rewards to excite the central nervous system as well.
The illusion of course is what feels good can't be bad for one.
I suggest that the concerns of potential long term harm of ABA related to autistic children, voiced by some, is similiar to the concern also voiced by some, for the potential negative results of behavioral modification, that may occur from Instant gratification, in society, as a whole.
In neither instance, is there much study for long term effects.
When I was a child I dreamed of swimming in an ocean of soft drink and potato chip heaven. Eventually I learned that happiness had more to do with delayed gratification than instant gratification. Not an easy lesson to learn, when one is born into a life of instant gratification.
Seems like much of it started with Soft Drinks and Potato Chips. And has peaked with 24/7, online pornography. This experiment continues. Not subject to FDA approval, or even significant acknowledgement that the experiment exists when so many are engaged in different aspects of it.
16 Dec 2011, 7:20 am
@aghogday.the syndrome your describing is childhood disintigrative disorder,regressive autism.kanner syndrome or classic autism means speech was never there in the first place.some times there is delay in speech other times speech never aquired.some people with classic autism will regress in speech when they go through puberty,but thats because of changing of hormones.
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16 Dec 2011, 8:17 am
Why is it that certain people keep homing on the extremes of autism all the time? Videos of low-func this, expressions of degenerative that.
And all the time it's all unconfirmed. Secondary sources with simple spelling mistakes, no actual diagnosis on the video is expressed.
What is wrong with this forum?
16 Dec 2011, 12:24 pm
MarcusTulliusCicero wrote:
Why is it that certain people keep homing on the extremes of autism all the time? Videos of low-func this, expressions of degenerative that.
And all the time it's all unconfirmed. Secondary sources with simple spelling mistakes, no actual diagnosis on the video is expressed.
What is wrong with this forum?
And all the time it's all unconfirmed. Secondary sources with simple spelling mistakes, no actual diagnosis on the video is expressed.
What is wrong with this forum?
this forum didn't create any videos like you are describing, so i am not sure what you are saying is wrong with this forum. what certain people are you speaking of? it's hard to answer your question without specifics.
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