I'd like to file a lawsuit

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Tangerine, it sounds like you're really upset and it's not helping that you aren't getting the help you need. But think about it this way: the alternative is that you get treated by these people, who obviously couldn't psychotherapy their way out of a paper bag, or they would know what to do with you.

It's not that Asperger's makes you a harder nut to crack, in itself. It's that these shrinks are themselves NTs, and deal mostly with NTs. They have more experience with that mindset. I'm not an expert on the topic (which is actually surprising, because psychiatry is my special interest), but I would assume that a professional who specialized in ASDs would have read more widely about them, seen several people with them already (practice makes perfect) and have a better idea of what level and kind of abnormality is normal and healthy for you. And because they would already have seen one or more people on the spectrum, they would be less likely to see you as just an Aspie (that is to say, attributing normal quirks to your Asperger's), and less likely to subscribe to damaging popular myths.

As for why this happened, these are the possibilities, as I see them:

They're so desperate to avoid ever making an error of commission (doing the wrong thing) that they will willingly make an error of omission (not doing the right thing). In this case, they would probably make for wishy-washy counselors anyway.

They're so desperate to avoid malpractice lawsuits that they turn away a possibly challenging patient (in which case they're greedy cowards, so you don't want them anyway).

They really know absolutely nothing about Asperger's Syndrome, and believe they're not good enough to help you or even to screen other doctors for you. (In which case, unless your Asperger's is extremely mild, they're probably right that they're not qualified to treat you.)

They're utter idiots who don't know the law. In this case, they probably do a bad job with all their patients.


So that's what I think. I don't think it's worth it to take this to court and waste more time and energy on them. Find a sympathetic friend or complain in Haven. Studies show it's just as effective. (Probably more effective, given that these are the professionals you're dealing with. )

have you heard of the term "neurodiversity"

homosexuals and feminists have considerable political clout. ASD do not.

If they continue treating a lesbian feminist with AS, but refuse to treat me b/c of AS, isn't that discrimination? If they are willing to treat other students with AS, then they cannot use AS as a reason to not treat me. Or, they should expel each and every patient with AS upon diagnosis equally. Personally I think such a policy is as discriminatory as one against lesbian feminists with narcisstic personality disorder.

Last edited by tangerine12 on 21 May 2010, 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I believe that all state schools and Universities should provide accommodations to ASD students.

So do I. What I'm leery of, however, is wasting all your time and money taking them to court over this. Can you instead talk to whoever is in charge of the U itself, or whoever is in charge of staffing?

Let's think this through. There's no call to act rashly, even though your frustration is justified and your cause just.

Also, if they're worried about hiring someone for just one student, why not seek out other members of the student body who also have Asperger's?

The thing is, if you're an Aspie, your deficits already put you at a disadvantage if you involve the law. First, you're less equipped to handle a lawyer, who will probably be greedy and deceptive. Second, poor eye contact will make you look like a liar.

Try to deal with this constructively. This is a good opportunity to educate the public (but if you have finals approaching, then don't let this take away from your studies), and it'll be even better if you team up with any other ASDers at your school. The incidence in the general population is just shy of 1%. That sounds like a small number on the face of it, but when you really think about it, that means that in a crowd of a thousand, there are probably ten. And at Uni? Well, you're already selecting for hyperfocused, intelligent, asocial people-- which means the incidence at your school is probably much higher. Of course, many will be undiagnosed. However, it should be possible to round up allies to help you. Then go see whoever runs the school itself-- is it a dean? A president? I must confess, the government of institutes of higher education is not my area of expertise. But whoever it is, go to him, with your new allies. Explain the problem. Remember to emphasize just how many Aspies there are, and how valuable we are to academia.

The same thing happened to me at my grad school. I merely mentioned at this point that I was considering getting a neuropsych because I possibly had PDD-NOS, AS or NVLD. All of the sudden it was all "Nope, sorry, you're too complicated for us." I eventually ended up going elsewhere, both to get a neuropsych and because the experience of being told that I was categorically too difficult to deal with because I might be on the spectrum was so unpleasant that I didn't feel comfortable going back.

What I don't understand is, these places probably deal with things (like schoolwork or social problems or relationships) that are by no means exclusive to NTs. What would it have cost them to keep on with me, or you in your case, for a few sessions to suss out what your particular problems were, and THEN determine, based on your particulars, whether they could help you? After all, it could be that some things they would suggest could help you too, even if you weren't their usual clientele That, at least, would seem like a reasonable accommodation - to assess individuals instead of categorically excluding people based on diagnosis.

Before going to get a lawyer, I would suggest talking or writing a letter to the dean of your school, saying that you're having trouble with (insert things here) that could affect your school performance, but that the school, despite your payments into its student health care system, is not willing to even try to help you, and is effectively forcing you to spend extra money for something you would have free access to otherwise but for your diagnosis. I wouldn't threaten them - I would just ask for any help or suggestions as to what to do. If the dean is being unsupportive, though, then I might look into other options.

The question is, ARE they treating Lesbian Feminists with AS? Or is a Lesbian Feminist just as likely to be turned away as anyone else due to AS?

I see what DandelionFireworks is trying to say.

For example, if you had Depression and were feeling lonely, what would that conversation sound like?

Counselor: Depression is often made worse by lack of social interaction. If you are feeling lonely, you need to just meet more people!
You: And how am I supposed to do that? I don't know where to start!
Counselor: You know, just talk to people in your classes. Join a club!
You: No, I don't know. I can't just randomly approach people; that makes no sense.
Counselor: Well, you have something in common with people around Uni, don't you?
You: I suppose, on a superficial level that I can deduce.
Counselor: Uh...yeah. Just, you know, talk to people about random stuff.
You: Like?
Counselor: You know, like, small talk.
You: No, I don't know. What do I talk about without sounding like an awkward loser?
Counselor: Like, weather, music, televison, movies.
You: And what if these people have no idea what kind of entertainment I like? I'm just yammering on while they look at me funny.
Counselor: Well, uh...maybe you can ask them what they like?
You: But what if I have no idea what they're talking about? That conversation will last all of 30 seconds.
Counselor: You can...pretend to be interested?
You: And what's the point of doing that? If I have nothing in common, then why bother attempting to forge a friendship that will be fruitless and based on feigned interest?
Counselor: I don't know. Try someone else?
You: Egads. You've asked me to work up the courage to speak to one random stranger, and now you want me to try with two?
Counselor: As often as it will take, I guess.
You: This won't get me anywhere. I'd be better off playing World of Warcraft at this pace.
Counselor: Being perfectly honest, I can't help you anymore. This is too confusing.
You: *Storm off*

And all of that is without even mentioning the word "Asperger's". Fact is, a counselor is not a fully trained psychologist let alone an infallible being. Being a counselor has more to do with experience establishing rapport with the "average" person than it does with attaining specialized degrees and treating persons with 'different' view points. Chances are, the counselors at your Uni are meant for a "shoulder to cry on" rather than anything else. Chances also are, that the centre would be just as likely to turn away someone with Bipolar or Anxiety disorder when it came to mood-related counselling.

A person with a mental illness could also theoretically claim discrimination if the centre turned them away because they wanted a diagnosis and perscription. The centre simply doesn't have that in their mission statement. They supply counselors, not psychiatrists and not psychologists.

In order to talk and receive help for problems that you have, it would be a better use of your time to simply see a "psychologist" that specialized in AS.

actually at my Uni, they are full time staff clinical psychologist with clinical pscy phD for 1-hour long, and psychiatrist for medications.


B/c of HIPAA I cannot say what other students are being treated for, although the waiting room usually 2-3 other students are waiting.

IF it turns out they are treated other students with AS, say a lesbian feminist with AS, then their representation to me is false and discriminatory.

If they were to treat 1 student with AS, then they cannot discriminate against other students with AS. I've not seen any official sources stating that the training of a clinical psych phD prohibits treating AS, or that such training could result in harm to AS.

No but the counselor in question may not be professionally trained/certified in this area which is why she brought up the "professional ethics" phrase. A school counselor is a licensed occupation and if her supervisor agreed with her she was telling you that she could not continue to treat you without violating her scope of practice under that state's licensure law. As for specifically hiring someone funding of public universities is allocated by the state legislature because they are publicly supported.

Tangerine, it may be that the counsellor believes that your depressed mood, anxiety and loneliness issues is closely related to your AS (even if you do not feel that way yourself), and that she believes that a professional with a more ASD-related expertise will be far better at offering you adequate help and a safe place than her own clinic. A student clinic may only offer so much help, and I'm sure that you are not the only student they have declined to treat. (I'm quite sure that they've referred other students with conditions they do not have much expertise in to other specialists, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation and disability.) Accept that they cannot offer you what you need and ask them for a referral. I am sorry to say that I am almost 100% certain that you will not win a lawsuit.

Anyone can make an excuse not to treat anyone under these terms.

Do you have any official documentation from any official source like the APA that clnical psy phD should not attempt to treat ASD under general practice?

probably not. Actually I do want them to have a ASD expert then on an adjuct basis.

Unless the demographics of your school warrant it, then it is unlikely that they will hire an adjunct professional for your exclusive needs. It would be appropriate for them in that case to refer you to an independent specialist for you to consult. I would not expect them to pay for, reimburse, or supplement the cost of your visits. From what I can see, this is the result of an unreasonable expectation for services based on a shared contribution for health services. Such services are not a panacea or a failsafe for any problem that may occur; special cases will require someone with appropriate knowledge and skills.


M.

I understand the cost in legal fees and time (i.e taking deposition, talking to opposing counsel) would far surpass the personal cost of me going to a so-called indepedent specialist.

As for unreasonable expectation, do you have any statement from APA or other creditted organization that such a referall is necessary, and are there other psych conditions where this sort of thing also occurs?

Could, for example a clinically trained psych PhD refer out say borderline personality disorder or bipolar to a "specialist"?

What exactly then are APA accredited clinically trained psych Phd supposed to see?