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DoodleDoo
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23 Mar 2012, 7:43 pm

Operationally on this site the term "NT" is for all others who are not gifted with apsieness.
NT's are not a monolithic mass of cud chewing drones, really there is a tremendous variety persona's - some we love, some we hate and some we just dont care about.



Raefila
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23 Mar 2012, 10:37 pm

Invader wrote:
snapcap wrote:
NT is an awful term. Every time I hear it, I think of the person saying it in a mocking looking down tone like normal people are soooo typical, easy to predict, mundane, a thorn in "our" side.

There's not such thing as a NT, whoever came up with the term felt grieved by people they felt typified some psychological profile, that is filled with a bunch of arbitrary characteristics.


Using a term in a negative or even hostile way does not invalidate what is being said.

The typical human being IS extremely stupid, and IS caught up in completely illogical behavioural and cognitive patterns, some of which the OP has listed. Whether or not it is arrogant to say so does nothing to change the factual accuracy of it.

Being rude does not equate to being wrong, this kind of thinking (or lack thereof) is very NT. :roll:


Sometimes, when I read what us 'supposedly better intelligence's' type, I actually feel stupider.

Because deciding we're better than them is totally ok, right? That's never had any negative consequences before, right?



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24 Mar 2012, 10:03 am

CosTransform wrote:
The point was to find a word that describe what is meant better. Not to deal with abuse or not.


The full term would be neurologically typical, so Aspies like us often shorten it to neurotypical (one word, no capitals).
Perhaps a more valid challenge is based on the overwhelming focus on pathology that is so central to psychiatry. When one
Aspie wit coined the term "neurotypical disorder" and parodied the DSM series with a description of this syndrome, the result
was splendidly funny.



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24 Mar 2012, 10:23 am

A more friendly term would be NA or not autistic I would suggest. Sometimes Neurotypical might be somewhat offensive to normal non autistic people because if you do look at it. It is like saying you are so typical minded etc. I dont use the term NT too often irl I just call them normal people or normies. That is just me though.


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25 Mar 2012, 12:56 pm

NTs in my opinon are often jealous of me when I was in school I foucsed on getting good grades all they wanted to do was play sports and go to parties do drugs an get drunk while I was making better grades them all of then an I was placed in a EC class which stood for exceptional children I think the term Neurotypical is awesome they labeled us so we in return gave them their own label.



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25 Mar 2012, 9:53 pm

CosTransform wrote:
Why care if it's politically incorrect?, following politically correct dogm is just a mental straitjacket.


I disagree with this statement... even though the average person only uses politically correct terminology because they have no choice, I believe most of the terminology should be used because it engenders an atmosphere of respect. Respect for one another is something that would make this world a better place.

I dislike the word as much as I do Aspie.. people should be defined by who they are, what they do, not by their genetic make up (or chemical poisoning, as one school of thought goes)


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25 Mar 2012, 9:58 pm

Invader wrote:
snapcap wrote:
NT is an awful term. Every time I hear it, I think of the person saying it in a mocking looking down tone like normal people are soooo typical, easy to predict, mundane, a thorn in "our" side.

There's not such thing as a NT, whoever came up with the term felt grieved by people they felt typified some psychological profile, that is filled with a bunch of arbitrary characteristics.


Using a term in a negative or even hostile way does not invalidate what is being said.

The typical human being IS extremely stupid, and IS caught up in completely illogical behavioural and cognitive patterns, some of which the OP has listed. Whether or not it is arrogant to say so does nothing to change the factual accuracy of it.

Being rude does not equate to being wrong, this kind of thinking (or lack thereof) is very NT. :roll:


‘I'm not stupid!' In Bean's experience, that was a sentence never uttered except to prove its own inaccuracy.


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26 Mar 2012, 1:59 pm

The alternative is to call neurotypical people "healthy" or "normal". If you consider what that makes us in comparison, you might realize that neurotypical is a much better term.



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26 Mar 2012, 4:02 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:
The alternative is to call neurotypical people "healthy" or "normal". If you consider what that makes us in comparison, you might realize that neurotypical is a much better term.


One only has to look at the comments in this thread to see that the word neurotypical is used like a slur to disparage a minority.

Non-Autistic is much harder to use in that manner. It sounds sounds silly to apply disparaging words to everyone that is not autistic. "Neurotypical" cannot even be identified in the real world, through appearances, so it used by some as a free pass to disparage nameless, faceless, anonymous individuals.

It also can be used as an attempt at intellectual bullying. Ironically, when used this way it shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of the complexity of variation that exists among human beings.

There are some with autistic traits trying to gain acceptance in the world, with deficits in social communication.

Tens of thousands of people view this site that have a vicarious interest in finding out what aspergers is, on a daily basis.

The disparaging way that "neurotypical" or "NT" is often used, lends no credence to the idea that people with Aspergers are looking for acceptance in society. It is evidence of the same "us" vs "them", mentality that is propogated by minority slurs among different groups in the rest of the population.

Non-Autistic is a good term to use, if one does want to be an unwitting part of an "us vs them" ideology, propagated by some.



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26 Mar 2012, 5:03 pm

there is nothing wrong with term neuroypical it is just a term.one must have a word to refere to those who are different.its simply a factual statement nothing more.if people use it as a slur it may become one.most of our curse words where once legitimate terms until they were continuly abused.the F word meant farming literaly putting seeds into the soil.(it did not mean for unlawfull carnal knowledge).the C word meant angle or where two points conjunct in an angle,it wasnt until it was applied to the human body that it became a curse or a slur type word.maybe one day N.T will be a slur but not until it is overused and abused.right now it is a fact


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26 Mar 2012, 8:12 pm

aghogday wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
The alternative is to call neurotypical people "healthy" or "normal". If you consider what that makes us in comparison, you might realize that neurotypical is a much better term.


One only has to look at the comments in this thread to see that the word neurotypical is used like a slur to disparage a minority.


But they are no minority. Quite the opposite. The word wasn't meant to be a slur, and I for one don't use it in that way.

Quote:
Non-Autistic is much harder to use in that manner. It sounds sounds silly to apply disparaging words to everyone that is not autistic.


There is nothing disparaging about the word neurotypical. It's a word like heterosexual. And it doesn't just mean non-autistic, it also means non-schizophrenic, non-bipolar, and so on. We could use the phrase "mentally healthy" instead, but things will turn ugly for the non-neurotypical minorities if people apply the opposite term to them. I'd rather be neuro-atypical than crazy or mentally unhealthy.



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27 Mar 2012, 3:13 am

CrazyCatLord wrote:
aghogday wrote:
CrazyCatLord wrote:
The alternative is to call neurotypical people "healthy" or "normal". If you consider what that makes us in comparison, you might realize that neurotypical is a much better term.


One only has to look at the comments in this thread to see that the word neurotypical is used like a slur to disparage a minority.


But they are no minority. Quite the opposite. The word wasn't meant to be a slur, and I for one don't use it in that way.

Quote:
Non-Autistic is much harder to use in that manner. It sounds silly to apply disparaging words to everyone that is not autistic.


There is nothing disparaging about the word neurotypical. It's a word like heterosexual. And it doesn't just mean non-autistic, it also means non-schizophrenic, non-bipolar, and so on. We could use the phrase "mentally healthy" instead, but things will turn ugly for the non-neurotypical minorities if people apply the opposite term to them. I'd rather be neuro-atypical than crazy or mentally unhealthy.


The problem is when one refers to the individuals that they are having problems at work with that they identify as "NT"'s and one employee is Bi-Polar, one has facial tics, one is introverted, one has ADD, one has ADHD, Dyslexia, Dyscalculia, Migraines, Cluster Headaches, and so on; diagnosed or not all of these conditions have been defined as having neurological based differences. And there is no requirement for anyone to wear a label to provide evidence for their neurological difference.

Neurotypical has no clear definition. It's not even included as as valid word in commonly used dictionaries. Nor, does Wiki have a clear definition. The neurological differences in introverts are understood as well or better than the neurological differences in Aspergers.

Some people would suggest that introverted people are neurotypical, but they do not have typical neurology. Some people suggest that neurotypical means non-autistic, some people aren't sure if schizophrenia should be a part of the category of atypical neurology. And some use the term neurotypical as a slur for people that are impossible to identify.

It is literally impossible to determine if someone does not have an atypical neurological condition by talking to them or knowing them for years. In addition, there are cases of epilepsy that do not show up on an EKG or Brain Scan. And, there are no measurable differences in brain scans among some individuals with Autism spectrum disorders. However, they are still considered neurological problems, per seizures and the issues associated with Autism Spectrum Disorders.

Many of these atypical neurological conditions do not affect social communication. This is the boundry that causes many people with autism related disorders problems in relating to others.

At least the term non-autistic, identifies something discrete, a person without a diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. However even at that level of identification, traits of autism have been researched as existing as far out as 30 percent of the population; there are likely neurological differences underlying those traits as well.

All things taken into consideration, if there is such a thing as neurotypical it is likely the minority of the population, not the majority. Introverts are suggested to exist out into up to 50 percent of the population.

The process of neuroplasticity and epigenetics can change one person's neurology through the course of a lifetime, in positive and negative ways.

Since the term neurotypical was suggested to mean something, by the people in the autistic community that came up with it over a decade ago, science has provided evidence that neurology is in flux through the course of everyone's lifetime, impacting almost every aspect of their life, including social communication.

The bottom line is it is impossible to categorize typical neurology; if it were possible neurologists would have already come up with a term to describe it and a definition for it.

At this point all they have is remarkable and unremarkable brain scans whether they are MRI's, Cat Scans, or EKG's. A finding of unremarkable isn't called normal brain function or typical neurology, because it is not evidence of it. Neuroscience still can't provide full answers as to how neurology and the brain work.

I don't see a problem with using the term, if it is not used disparingly to describe an imaginary group of people. However, considering there is no commonly understood definition for the term, it is of little use in communicating something that exists in real life.


These are just a list of the commonly identified neurological disorders. There are between 300 or 400 disorders in the list, I don't even have the patience to count them one by one. Technically Bi-Polar and Schizophrenia aren't even considered a part of this list of neurological disorders, however it is understood that there are differences in neurology that underly the conditions, just as there are among introverts.

http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/neurological-disorders-list.shtml

There is little to no chance that a room of 10 individuals with Aspergers could agree on which of these neurological disorders meet their own personal idea of what typical or atypical neurology is. And, it is impossible to accurately exclude all of these neurological disorders from any person that one meets in real life, through obervation alone.

Given all these facts it's hard to objectively justify the use of the term neurotypical in real life to describe someone that one comes into contact with.

Quote:
Neurological Disorders A

Acquired Epileptiform Aphasia
Acute Disseminated Encephalomyelitis
Adrenoleukodystrophy
Agenesis of the corpus callosum
Agnosia
Aicardi syndrome
Alexander disease
Alpers' disease
Alternating hemiplegia
Alzheimer's disease
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (see Motor Neurone Disease)
Anencephaly
Angelman syndrome
Angiomatosis
Anoxia
Aphasia
Apraxia
Arachnoid cysts
Arachnoiditis
Arnold-Chiari malformation
Arteriovenous malformation
Asperger's syndrome
Ataxia Telangiectasia
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
Autism
Auditory processing disorder
Autonomic Dysfunction

Neurological Disorders B

Back Pain
Batten disease
Behcet's disease
Bell's palsy
Benign Essential Blepharospasm
Benign Focal Amyotrophy
Benign Intracranial Hypertension
Bilateral frontoparietal polymicrogyria
Binswanger's disease
Blepharospasm
Bloch-Sulzberger syndrome
Brachial plexus injury
Brain abscess
Brain damage
Brain injury
Brain tumor
Brown-Sequard syndrome

Neurological Disorders C

Canavan disease
Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS)
Causalgia
Central pain syndrome
Central pontine myelinolysis
Centronuclear myopathy
Cephalic disorder
Cerebral aneurysm
Cerebral arteriosclerosis
Cerebral atrophy
Cerebral gigantism
Cerebral palsy
Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease
Chiari malformation
Chorea
Chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy (CIDP)
Chronic pain
Chronic regional pain syndrome
Coffin Lowry syndrome
Coma, including Persistent Vegetative State
Congenital facial diplegia
Corticobasal degeneration
Cranial arteritis
Craniosynostosis
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease
Cumulative trauma disorders
Cushing's syndrome
Cytomegalic inclusion body disease (CIBD)
Cytomegalovirus Infection

Neurological Disorders D

Dandy-Walker syndrome
Dawson disease
De Morsier's syndrome
Dejerine-Klumpke palsy
Dejerine-Sottas disease
Delayed sleep phase syndrome
Dementia
Dermatomyositis
Developmental Dyspraxia
Diabetic neuropathy
Diffuse sclerosis
Dysautonomia
Dyscalculia
Dysgraphia
Dyslexia
Dystonia

Neurological Disorders E

Early infantile epileptic encephalopathy
Empty sella syndrome
Encephalitis
Encephalocele
Encephalotrigeminal angiomatosis
Encopresis
Epilepsy
Erb's palsy
Erythromelalgia
Essential tremor

Neurological Disorders F

Fabry's disease
Fahr's syndrome
Fainting
Familial spastic paralysis
Febrile seizures
Fisher syndrome
Friedreich's ataxia
FART Syndrome
Neurological Disorders G

Gaucher's disease
Gerstmann's syndrome
Giant cell arteritis
Giant cell inclusion disease
Globoid cell Leukodystrophy
Gray matter heterotopia
Guillain-Barre syndrome

Neurological Disorders H

HTLV-1 associated myelopathy
Hallervorden-Spatz disease
Head injury
Headache
Hemifacial Spasm
Hereditary Spastic Paraplegia
Heredopathia atactica polyneuritiformis
Herpes zoster oticus
Herpes zoster
Hirayama syndrome
Holoprosencephaly
Huntington's disease
Hydranencephaly
Hydrocephalus
Hypercortisolism
Hypoxia

Neurological Disorders I

Immune-Mediated encephalomyelitis
Inclusion body myositis
Incontinentia pigmenti
Infantile phytanic acid storage disease
Infantile Refsum disease
Infantile spasms
Inflammatory myopathy
Intracranial cyst
Intracranial hypertension

Neurological Disorders J

Joubert syndrome

Neurological Disorders K

Kearns-Sayre syndrome
Kennedy disease
Kinsbourne syndrome
Klippel Feil syndrome
Krabbe disease
Kugelberg-Welander disease
Kuru

Neurological Disorders L

Lafora disease
Lambert-Eaton myasthenic syndrome
Landau-Kleffner syndrome
Lateral medullary (Wallenberg) syndrome
Learning disabilities
Leigh's disease
Lennox-Gastaut syndrome
Lesch-Nyhan syndrome
Leukodystrophy
Lewy body dementia
Lissencephaly
Locked-In syndrome
Lou Gehrig's disease (See Motor Neurone Disease)
Lumbar disc disease
Lyme disease - Neurological Sequelae

Neurological Disorders M

Machado-Joseph disease (Spinocerebellar ataxia type 3)
Macrencephaly
Megalencephaly
Melkersson-Rosenthal syndrome
Menieres disease
Meningitis
Menkes disease
Metachromatic leukodystrophy
Microcephaly
Migraine
Miller Fisher syndrome
Mini-Strokes
Mitochondrial Myopathies
Mobius syndrome
Monomelic amyotrophy
Motor Neurone Disease
Motor skills disorder
Moyamoya disease
Mucopolysaccharidoses
Multi-Infarct Dementia
Multifocal motor neuropathy
Multiple sclerosis
Multiple system atrophy with postural hypotension
Muscular dystrophy
Myalgic encephalomyelitis
Myasthenia gravis
Myelinoclastic diffuse sclerosis
Myoclonic Encephalopathy of infants
Myoclonus
Myopathy
Myotubular myopathy
Myotonia congenita


Neurological Disorders N

Narcolepsy
Neurofibromatosis
Neuroleptic malignant syndrome
Neurological manifestations of AIDS
Neurological sequelae of lupus
Neuromyotonia
Neuronal ceroid lipofuscinosis
Neuronal migration disorders
Niemann-Pick disease
Non 24-hour sleep-wake syndrome
Nonverbal learning disorder
Neurological Disorders O

O'Sullivan-McLeod syndrome
Occipital Neuralgia
Occult Spinal Dysraphism Sequence
Ohtahara syndrome
Olivopontocerebellar atrophy
Opsoclonus myoclonus syndrome
Optic neuritis
Orthostatic Hypotension
Overuse syndrome

Neurological Disorders P

Palinopsia
Paresthesia
Parkinson's disease
Paramyotonia Congenita
Paraneoplastic diseases
Paroxysmal attacks
Parry-Romberg syndrome (also known as Rombergs Syndrome)
Pelizaeus-Merzbacher disease
Periodic Paralyses
Peripheral neuropathy
Persistent Vegetative State
Pervasive developmental disorders
Photic sneeze reflex
Phytanic Acid Storage disease
Pick's disease
Pinched Nerve
Pituitary Tumors
PMG
Polio
Polymicrogyria
Polymyositis
Porencephaly
Post-Polio syndrome
Postherpetic Neuralgia (PHN)
Postinfectious Encephalomyelitis
Postural Hypotension
Prader-Willi syndrome
Primary Lateral Sclerosis
Prion diseases
Progressive Hemifacial Atrophy also known as Rombergs_Syndrome
Progressive multifocal leukoencephalopathy
Progressive Sclerosing Poliodystrophy
Progressive Supranuclear Palsy
Pseudotumor cerebri

Neurological Disorders R

Ramsay-Hunt syndrome (Type I and Type II)
Rasmussen's encephalitis
Reflex sympathetic dystrophy syndrome
Refsum disease
Repetitive motion disorders
Repetitive stress injury
Restless legs syndrome
Retrovirus-associated myelopathy
Rett syndrome
Reye's syndrome
Rombergs_Syndrome
Rabies

Neurological Disorders S

Saint Vitus dance
Sandhoff disease
Schytsophrenia
Schilder's disease
Schizencephaly
Sensory Integration Dysfunction
Septo-optic dysplasia
Shaken baby syndrome
Shingles
Shy-Drager syndrome
Sjogren's syndrome
Sleep apnea
Sleeping sickness
Snatiation
Sotos syndrome
Spasticity
Spina bifida
Spinal cord injury
Spinal cord tumors
Spinal muscular atrophy
Spinal stenosis
Steele-Richardson-Olszewski syndrome, see Progressive Supranuclear Palsy
Spinocerebellar ataxia
Stiff-person syndrome
Stroke
Sturge-Weber syndrome
Subacute sclerosing panencephalitis
Subcortical arteriosclerotic encephalopathy
Superficial siderosis
Sydenham's chorea
Syncope
Synesthesia
Syringomyelia

Neurological Disorders T

Tardive dyskinesia
Tay-Sachs disease
Temporal arteritis
Tethered spinal cord syndrome
Thomsen disease
Thoracic outlet syndrome
Tic Douloureux
Todd's paralysis
Tourette syndrome
Transient ischemic attack
Transmissible spongiform encephalopathies
Transverse myelitis
Traumatic brain injury
Tremor
Trigeminal neuralgia
Tropical spastic paraparesis
Trypanosomiasis
Tuberous sclerosis

Neurological Disorders V

Vasculitis including temporal arteritis
Von Hippel-Lindau disease (VHL)
Viliuisk Encephalomyelitis (VE)

Neurological Disorders W

Wallenberg's syndrome
Werdnig-Hoffman disease
West syndrome
Whiplash
Williams syndrome
Wilson's disease

Neurological Disorders X

X-Linked Spinal and Bulbar Muscular Atrophy

Neurological Disorders Z

Zellweger syndrome



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27 Mar 2012, 4:48 am

I don't mind being called NT since thats what we have in use here, however NA or something similar is a more useful term, in that it makes the distinction something a person doesn't have (an ASD) vs some imaginary characteristic they do have (Nuerotypicality).



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27 Mar 2012, 7:08 am

its just a word thats all.this is being taken way to seriously.are we now going to get upset if someone in the army calls us civilian.i would not be upset if someone called me a new englander.i have even been to london where someone kindly and jokingly called me a damn yankee.come on guys lets lighgten up


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31 Mar 2012, 1:14 am

CosTransform wrote:
Is the term "Neuro Typical" really proper? it uses the fact that a certain type of behavior is common and thus "typical". But let's say that aspies would populate the world, then it would fall flat. A term that concentrate what something is, rather than how common it is would be more to the point.

Some traits:
* So what is the term for obsessive disorder to comply in decision making with peers as the highest priority. Add to that constant anxiety to fulfill this.
* Being engaged in talk about things that are of really no concern, where the real message is in how the message is presented and to whom is the message.
* Trying to instigate intrigues or drama.
* Status chase. (I bought the car because it's fast OR I bought the car because it's faster than my neighbor)
* Impulses to do things with others, much of the time.

Not all is present all the time. But ought to be a starting point for a better term?

What about NTs who are introverts?


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03 Apr 2012, 1:40 am

I am glad to find there are others owho think the term NT refers to a nonexistent category of persons.

One alternative that I like is to instead make a distinction between those on the autistic spectrum (Autistics, for short) vs. those who are more "social thinkers" by their nature. The term "social thinkers" refers to people who are generally driven more by emotions and social instincts.

For the term "neurotypical" to have any substance, IMO it would have to be mindful of the myriad characteristics that distinguish one brain from another. Moreover, given the prevalence of "disorders" that are currently recognized--including Mood Disorders, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorders, Attention Disorders, Personality Disorders, Substance Abuse Disorders, Anxiety Disorders, Impulse Disorders, and so on--the so-called "neurotypical" person cannot possibly be free of all neurological challenges. IMO, such a person would have to be categorized neuro-atypical. :)


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