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Pieplup
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09 Apr 2016, 9:25 am

GumbyLives wrote:
The other day I had to take a class for work, and one of the presenters (a therapist) made some really stupid remarks about people with aspergers. For example: "What would aspergers people do if there were no computer games? Hahaha" I tried to point out the obvious, but he didn't get it.

I have to take classes sometimes where we are supposed to "learn" about aspergers. Only my boss at work knows about me, and I keep it that way to prevent being sidelined, made fun of, or written off by my coworkers and other management.

Still it makes me REALLY uncomfortable to have to supposedly "learn" about myself when a good deal of the time the information offered us is stereotyped, shallow, demeaning, etc. I've known a lot of aspergians who've come a long way in their lives, learning to get along in the world. But I've never met someone who benefited from "therapy" or other "help" such as offered through the traditional therapy systems. Although in many ways it's better for younger aspergians that more people know they exist and can help if they have, for example, severe communication issues. But in general, I think younger aspergians have it harder than we "old" aspgerians did, because we didn't have to grow up learning the latest NT theories about ourselves and being hampered in finding what works for us.

In an ideal world, I wish I had grown up knowing of older aspergians in my life - people who know the drill from the inside out and could help me find my way through the NT minefield of high school, college, and work. But "therapy"? I'm glad I missed it.

I Benifit from my therapist but when she is wrong I let her know about it.


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I am pieplup i have level 3 autism and a number of severe mental illnesses. I am rarely active on here anymore.
I run a discord for moderate-severely autistic people if anyone would like to join. You can also contact me on discord @Pieplup or by email at [email protected]


aspiesavant
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18 Apr 2016, 1:21 pm

I would go as far as argue that Autism is not even a disability.

Back in the '60s, homosexuality was considered a disorder, correlated with pedophilia. This 1961 educational film by Sid Davis perfectly captures the common perception of homosexuality at the time :



Back then, some therapists employed aversion therapy to "cure" male homosexuality. This typically involved showing patients pictures of naked men while giving them electric shocks or drugs to make them vomit, and, once they could no longer bear it, showing them pictures of naked women or sending them out on a "date" with a young nurse. Needless to say, these cruel and degrading methods proved entirely ineffective.

Homosexuality became officially listed as a mental disorder in the DSM with the publication of the DSM-II in 1968. When the American Psychiatric Association (APA) asked all members attending its convention to vote on whether they believed homosexuality to be a mental disorder in 1973, 5,854 psychiatrists voted to remove homosexuality from the DSM, and 3,810 to retain it.

The APA then compromised, removing homosexuality from the DSM but replacing it, in effect, with "sexual orientation disturbance" for people "in conflict with" their sexual orientation. Not until 1987 did homosexuality completely fall out of the DSM. Meanwhile, the World Health Organization (WHO) only removed homosexuality from its ICD classification with the publication of ICD-10 in 1992.

The evolution of the status of homosexuality in the classifications of mental disorders highlights that concepts of mental disorder can be social constructs that change as society changes. Today, the standard of psychotherapy in the U.S. and Europe is "gay affirmative psychotherapy", which encourages gay people to accept their sexual orientation.

Personally, I don't see any reason why a similar shift in perception isn't possible for Autism. Sure, Autism comes with weaknesses... but it also comes with strengths. Consider the following racial differences :

Image
(source)

Each of these three races has their own unique strengths and weaknesses. Yet, no reasonable person would argue that either race is inherently disabled. Right?

When we look at gender differences, we see that women are more average than women... meaning that men are more likely to be on the outlier of a typical Bell Curve.

Consider, for example, the different distribution of intelligence between men and women :

Image
(source)

So, again we see that each of both genders has its own unique strengths and weaknesses. Yet, no reasonable person would argue that either gender is inherently disabled. Right?

Now, data increasingly suggests that the distribution of intelligence and many other characteristics for men with Autism compares to Neurotypical men like that of Neurotypical men compares with that of Neurotypical women. Like the average Neurotypical man is less average on average than the average Neurotypical woman, the average Autistic man is less average on average than the average Neurotypical man. (Note: I don't think I ever used the word "average" that often in one sentence, but I do believe this nuance is véry important!)

So what does it mean? Well, it means that Autistic men are more likely to be either higly intelligent or intellectually disabled, compared with the rest of the population. Much the same can be said about extroversion vs introversion, asexuality vs hypersexuality and many other human characteristics. Basically, people with Autism are just more extreme in many areas than the rest of the population... which comes with great weaknesses as well as great strengths!

Basically, my position on Autism is this :
* Autism CAN result in one or more disabilities (mutism, intellectual disability, social anxiety disorder, ...), but it doesn't per se
* Autism CAN result in one or more extreme talent (talent for maths, talent for art, great memory, ...), but it doesn't per se

______

Further reading

From Autism doesn't have to be viewed as a disability or disorder :

Quote:
Autism may represent the last great prejudice we, as a society, must overcome. History is riddled with examples of intolerance directed at the atypical. We can sometime fear that which diverges from the “norm”, and sometimes that fear leads us to frame those who are different as being in some way lesser beings than ourselves.
Quote:
Autism is framed as a disability, with mainstream theories presenting autism via deficit models. Popular theory is often passed off as fact with no mention of the morphic nature of research and scientific process. Most mainstream theory is silent regarding autistic strengths and atypical ability; indeed, what is in print often presents a damning image of autism as an “epidemic”. Hurtful words such as risk, disease, disorder, impairment, deficit, pedantic, obsession are frequently utilised.
Quote:
A common misconception around autism is that it is inextricably linked to intellectual disability. However, many of the world’s great thinkers and innovators displayed autistic characteristics. “Autism and intellectual disability often occur together in clinical settings, and this has made many researchers think that the conditions must share the same genetic causes. Our research challenges this assumption,” says Dr Rosa Hoekstra, lecturer in psychology at the Open University, who led a recent study which found that the genes for autism are distinct from those for learning disabilities. Autistic people exhibit a range of intellectual ability, including exceptional intellect. An obvious cause of this discrepancy is that very intellectually able people are less likely to be diagnosed. Furthermore, some diagnosticians actively withhold diagnoses in those deemed to be coping.


From Why the Tech Industry Needs More Autism :

Quote:
Autism is NOT a disorder

In the DSM-5, Autism is classified as a neurodevelopmental disorder. However, this notion is controversial and outdated. Many people who have been diagnosed with Autism do not consider their Autism a disorder and scientists are increasingly starting to join their ranks.

Because Autism comes with both extreme weaknesses (flaws) and extreme strengths (gifts), scientists are starting to support the notion that Autism is just a natural but extreme variation in functioning rather than a disorder to be cured. This means that Autism — although at the edges of what qualifies as normal human behavior — is a part of normal human biodiversity.

It is also argued that many (if not all) symptoms associated with Autism are not so much caused by Autism but rather by Autistic people being forced to conform to the mould of a society designed for “Neurotypical” people. That means that these symptoms can and should be alleviated by allowing Autistic people to be themselves instead of forcing them to behave in ways that are alien to them. One might even argue that in a hypothetical society run by Autistic people, it’s the “Neurotypical” who appears to be have some kind of “disorder”.

From this perspective, labeling Autism as a disorder is not just wrong but damaging for the Autistic community, because it creates a false perception that people with Autistic are intrinsically less productive members of society, whereas many people with Autism are not just equally productive but even more productive than “Neurotypicals” when fostering an environment that allows their strengths to compensate for their weaknesses.

Changes in the scientific perception of Autism

Eugen Bleuler, a Swiss psychiatrist, was the first person to use the term Autism in 1911, as a reference to one group of symptoms of schizophrenia. Bleuler defined Autism as a detachment from reality associated with rich fantasy life:

“The […] schizophrenics who have no more contact with the outside world live in a world of their own. They have encased themselves with their desires and wishes […]; they have cut themselves off as much as possible from any contact with the external world. This detachment from reality with the relative and absolute predominance of the inner life, we term Autism.”

Bleuler described a rich variety of clinical manifestations of Autism: poor ability to enter into contact with others, withdrawal and inaccessibility (in the extreme cases, negativism), indifference, rigid attitudes and behaviors, deranged hierarchy of values and goals, inappropriate behavior, idiosyncratic logic, and a propensity to delusional thinking. This enumeration demonstrates that Autism is resilient to a simple medical definition because none of these manifestations is sufficient or necessary to diagnose Autism.

In the 1940s, researchers in the United States began to use the term “Autism” to describe children with emotional or social problems. Leo Kanner, a doctor from Johns Hopkins University, used it to describe the withdrawn behavior of several children he studied. His 1943 paper described 11 children who shared high intelligence, a profound preference for being alone and an “obsessive insistence on the preservation of sameness.” Kanner considered Autism a form of “childhood Schizophrenia.”

Around the same time, in 1944, Hans Asperger — an Austrian pediatrician — described four children in his practice who had difficulty in integrating themselves socially. Asperger identified in four boys a pattern of behavior and abilities that included “a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversations, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements”.

In spite of his unfortunate usage of the term “psychopathy”, Asperger passionately defended the value of Autistic individuals, writing :

“We are convinced, then, that Autistic people have their place in the organism of the social community. They fulfill their role well, perhaps better than anyone else could, and we are talking of people who as children had the greatest difficulties and caused untold worries to their care-givers.”

Asperger called these children “little professors” because of their ability to talk about their favorite subject in great detail. Asperger noticed that many of the children he identified as being Autistic used their special talents in adulthood and had successful careers. One of them became a professor of astronomy and solved an error in Newton’s work he had originally noticed as a student. Another one of Asperger’s patients was the Austrian writer and Nobel Prize in Literature laureate, Elfriede Jelinek.

Nevertheless, Asperger’s paper was published during wartime and in German, so it was not widely read elsewhere. For several decades, Kanner’s notion of as a form of “childhood Schizophrenia” persisted in academic literature, and psychoanalysts typically blamed emotionally emotionally distant mothering (known as the “refrigerator mom” theory of Autism). This theory is considered debunked by (almost?) all experts today.

In his 1961 work The Myth of Mental Illness, Thomas Szasz famously argued that what is commonly qualified as mental illness is merely a deviation from societal norms. Szasz argued that mental illness is a metaphor and not a genuine disease, that it is merely a way of dealing with problematic people in society. “Psychiatry is conventionally defined as a medical specialty concerned with the diagnosis and treatment of mental diseases,” he wrote. “I submit that this definition, which is still widely accepted, places psychiatry in the company of alchemy and astrology and commits it to the category of pseudoscience. The reason for this is that there is no such thing as ‘mental illness.’” By the late 1960s, he was perhaps the most famous psychiatrist in America. However, he was also the most despised among peers. This, and his theories being rooted in the discredited field of psychoanalysis, resulted in his work usually being either ignored or vehemently attacked.

In 1971, Israel Kolvin conducted seminal research that highlighted the distinction between Autism and Schizophrenia, which influenced the decision to include Autism and Schizophrenia as two separate categories in in the DSM-III. Still, most of Kanner’s description of Autism wasn’t challenged until Asperger’s research was referenced in a 1981 paper, Asperger’s syndrome: a clinical account, by English researcher Lorna Wing.

Objective criteria for diagnosing Autism soon followed, as did a clear separation from childhood schizophrenia, although it was not until 1991 that an authoritative translation of Asperger’s work was made (by developmental psychologist Uta Frith), which officially introduced Asperger’s work to the English speaking world. Following this publication, the early 1990’s marked the beginning of a gradual change of the perception of Autism towards a very diverse spectrum condition.

In 1997, Professor of developmental psychopathology Simon Baron-Cohen (a cousin of actor and comedian Sacha Baron Cohen) developed the empathising–systemising theory, which suggests that people may be classified on the basis of their scores along two dimensions: empathizing (E) and systemizing (S). Baron-Cohen suggested that the typical male brain is has a stronger affinity with systemising and the typical female brain has a stronger affinity with empathising.

Baron-Cohen further suggested that people with Autism show stronger affinity with systemizing over empathizing compared with their “Neurotypical” peers (irrespective of sex). This led to the conceptualisation of Autism as an “extreme of the typical male brain”. Later, in their 2008 study, Bernard Crespi and Christopher Badcock expanded upon Baron-Cohen’s theory and conceptualized Psychosis as an “extreme of the typical female brain” and the diametrical opposite of Autism.

Note that Psychosis being the “diametrical opposite of Autism” doesn’t mean that Autism and Psychosis are mutually exclusive. It merely means is that they are distinct and radically different brain strategies that are associated with respectively extreme Masculinity and extreme Femininity. While some individuals can be considered as purely Autistic or purely Psychotic, others experience symptoms of both Autism and Psychosis. Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder are typical examples where Autistic and Psychotic symptoms co-occur. The exact differences and similarities between these different “conditions” nevertheless remain very poorly understood.

By the late 1990s, online groups of Autistic persons started publicly defending the notion that that Autism is but a variation on the neurological norm and should be recognized and respected as a social category on a par with gender, ethnicity or sexual orientation. Since the beginning of the 21st century, this concept is now increasingly picked up by scientists as well, although it’s still considered controversial and thus far from universally accepted.

With recent works like Paris Williams’s 2012 publication Rethinking Madness and Wouter Kusters’s 2014 Philosophy of Madness, a similar paradigm shift has begun involving Psychosis — the “opposite” of Autism. ADHD has also been mentioned in this context, and the term neurodiversity has been coined in reference to a more general application of this concept, roughly echoing the ideas of Szasz many decades after they were first voiced.

Meanwhile, Olga Bogdashina’s little known 2003 publication is one of the first scholarly works to accurately describe Autism in all its diversity and accurately correlate Autistic behavior with corresponding emotions and cognitive styles. This work is the first of several to provide an in depth analysis of the many subtleties and nuances found in the language and perception of Autistic people.



Dinesaur
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18 Apr 2016, 2:03 pm

After I notified work of my recent diagnosis, I was invited to attend a "What is ASD/Aspergers" session for managers because I was keen to learn how work viewed it. I ended up filing a complaint because of the sheer number of stereotypes:
- Aspies are into train timetables
- Aspies think it's raining cats and dogs when you say it
- Aspies can't be girls
- Aspies are annoying
- There is a chance ASD/Aspergers can suddenly disappear in an individual/be cured

I am not saying some of these points aren't true for individuals out there but after the session, my manager no longer believed my diagnosis because I didn't fit the official company-approved stereotype. It was very upsetting.



Jo_B1_Kenobi
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25 Apr 2016, 5:54 am

Pieplup wrote:
I Benifit from my therapist but when she is wrong I let her know about it.


I think that sounds like a really good way of dealing with it. I went for an initial visit to a therpist once who came out with all sorts of nonesense which worried and scared me. However, I wasn't strong enough to tell her what I thought of her views. Since it was only an initial visit I decided not to go forward with the therapy - I bought a new semi-acoustic jazz guitar instead with the money which turned out to be very therapeutic indeed!

Later I had therapy again but this lady was really smart and she realised very quickly that I needed a more practical directed form of therapy. This helped me enormously and eventually led to me being diagnosed with ASD. I've since read that more directed therapy is often very effective for people on the Spectrum.


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Diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ICD10)


League_Girl
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29 Apr 2016, 2:44 am

What exactly is directed therapy?


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Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.


Jo_B1_Kenobi
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12 May 2016, 8:54 am

League_Girl wrote:
What exactly is directed therapy?



Sorry for the delay, I missed seeing your post until today.


Directed therapy isn't a kind of therapy - what I was talking about was therapy that is more directive in nature compared to, say, client centred therapy or standard CBT. Basically, my counsellor used a much more practicle approach, very similar to CBT but with her suggesting ways I could handle social things which were going wrong.

In her and my opinion, what I needed at the time was like a social interpreter.

(1) So I would explain a situation which had gone wrong and how upset I was feeling and she would actively listen which made me feel safe and contained my feelings.

(2) Then she would explain what could actually have be happening and what the other people might have been thinking so I could get a better understanding of it - an NT perpective if you like.

(3) Then she would give me some options for handling something like that. I would choose one and try it and then feedback to her how things went the next week. (This is the directive bit, she's not getting me to come up with solutions, she's coming up with them and I can choose which I want to try.)

It worked brilliantly because, it diffused my distress around the things which were going wrong, it explained the situations I was not understanding and gave me options for how to deal with it which I could practice. It was like counselling for my distressed feelings and then one to one social training - brilliant!


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Diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ICD10)


B19
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26 May 2016, 3:07 am

Dinesaur wrote:
After I notified work of my recent diagnosis, I was invited to attend a "What is ASD/Aspergers" session for managers because I was keen to learn how work viewed it. I ended up filing a complaint because of the sheer number of stereotypes:
- Aspies are into train timetables
- Aspies think it's raining cats and dogs when you say it
- Aspies can't be girls
- Aspies are annoying
- There is a chance ASD/Aspergers can suddenly disappear in an individual/be cured

I am not saying some of these points aren't true for individuals out there but after the session, my manager no longer believed my diagnosis because I didn't fit the official company-approved stereotype. It was very upsetting.


I can imagine how upsetting that was. What a horrible exposure to intolerable ignorance. I really admire you for filing the complaint. It's the brave thing to do. You sound surrounded by ignorance in your workplace, so you have the isolation of contending with that too. Please update us when you can and stay in touch. I hope you have support outside of work too, at least one person who understands.

If you haven't already discovered it, can i suggest the the website Autism Women's Network as a source of interesting and pertinent articles written from female perspectives.