Reviewing a Theme Park for Autism Friendliness

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Yeah, you should leave. All you've done is ignore what I've had to say, did you even attempt to understand, just ignore the perspective of the AS community, and just fabricate a bunch of straw man, that's dishonest and disgusting, and people shouldn't have to put up with it.



No it is certainly NOT.

Alright...discussion closed! I'm getting really tired and impatient with the arguing and pessimism going on here. You all can sort it out among yourselves. I'm outta here!

The same goes for you. I've been explaining why it's detrimental without arguing or pessimism, people shouldn't have to put up with the straw man nonsense.

I should leave? WTF, I don't think so. Leave where? The thread, the forum, the planet? What exactly have I done that is so terrible that I need to leave anywhere? Hint; I'm not the one throwing a fit over something that isn't harmful to anyone in the least and would be very helpful to many. Acting like an adult and voicing your objections calmly and rationally with well thought out arguments goes a long way toward making grownups listen to you.

What have you got against people have a good time?

You have gone completely overboard and are just being ridiculous by what you are saying. Parents killing their kids or you being unemployed has nothing whatsoever to do with finding out how loud Chuck E Cheeze is or how long the lines are at TomorrowLand or whether Kastle Burger has wheelchair accessibility. I'm ignoring you from now on, so you can keep posting whatever to me about this but I'm not reading it. It's not making any sense and you aren't worried about things that are actually connected. Go ahead and post whatever you think is a clever response to "put me in my place" and "tell me off" so you'll feel like you "won" whatever you seem to be trying to win here, but to be honest I don't have a clue how you think murder, unemployment or discrimination is connected to parents taking their kids to a water park. Either way, I'm not gonna read it.

I'm also going to continue with my idea and publish the guide, and it will help a lot of people pick places to go.

Hello straw man, I wasn't expecting to see you a second time.



So, according to your fabrications, you made me out to be a child that's throwing a tantrum. Well, I hate to break it to you, but
A) Going on an ad hom tirade doesn't validate any or your nonsense, nor does it invalidate any of my points.
and B) Anyone that goes back and reads the thread, will see that you're a bared faced liar, that my arguments where in fact "calmly and rationally."



What? Explain it for a second time? So you can fabricate more straw man arguments? So you can go on another ad hom tirade?



What a surprise, I explain the perspective of AS people, then because it doesn't match your view, just write it off and ignore it. Gee, I wonder how similar that experience is to dealing with Autism Speaks.



and the AS community will be right there to stand up against the hateful BS of the vile stigmas.

I'm backing out on my review project anyway. You're right, I'm not going to make a fool of myself and make the autism community look bad. Plus, I'm not even prepared to do a review. I'm not going to attract heat from trolls and haters.

And Moromilla, I'm anti-cure and pro-acceptance. My parents never let me use my Asperger's as a freebie pass for entitlement and such throughout my life. So I see your point and the error of my ways. But next time you come over to me and act like a prick, I won't be so nice.

to all parties involved in bickering, can we please tone it down a bit?

Agreed!

It's not making anyone look bad. Not at all. I'm happy to compile it and get it out there though. My idea covers more than theme parks though, and it also will cover more special needs than autism. It's going to have information pertaining to many, many special needs situations, all the way from people with simple dietary restrictions to those in wheelchairs, and deaf and blind folks as well as something as simple as ADHD and distractions.

I don't know why he's reacting this way, because having a guide to what accommodations and services are offered at different places, as well as information about noise level, usual busy times, wheelchair accommodations, dietary substitutions, etc isn't going to make anyone look bad. I have no clue how he's managed to come up with that, but trust me nobody is going to think bad about anyone for the fact that there is a guide out there to what is offered where so that parents can use that when planning outings and vacations. I honestly can't imagine anyone bothering someone who publishes it. Of course there is always somebody who is going to get mad and come up with some outlandish way that it must mean something entirely different than it actually does, but they will be few and far between and it's not going to bother me at all. Hell, when my oldest son had that march against racism for kids back in the late 90's and kids came from all over the state to be in it, it was on the news and I let them give our phone number for info concerning how to get here and when it would start, I got several calls from racists and haters and that was probably a lot more disturbing than somebody jumping to weird conclusions about a parents guide to places to take their kids. So, it won't bother me and I'm going to go ahead with it. I've had quite a few people tell me it's something that is really needed.

There is no possible way that a guide to leisure places for parents would make the autistic community look bad. Does anyone think it would make the wheelchair community look bad? Or the allergic community, or the blind or deaf communities, or the ADHD community, or any other community that will have the information related to the particular issue look bad from it? All of these things present different things to deal with and look for or avoid when going places. There is nothing wrong with listing what you will or won't find in certain places and what the particular establishment offers to help with those things.

For goodness sakes, if your kid has an issue with loud noises, whether that is from autism or ADHD or anxiety or several other different things that could cause someone to have problems with loud noises, then having something that tells you whether or not it's loud there, or loud in certain places, or only certain rides or exhibits are loud, etc. doesn't make anyone look bad. Actually, if you want to talk about making the autistic community look bad or drawing attention to the negative aspects of autism then taking your child to a place and only finding out when it's too late that it's full of whatever it is that causes your child to have a full blown, public, no holds barred meltdown would do more to "make autism look bad" than simply picking another place to go to begin with. Having something like this would also go a very long way toward enabling parents to take their kids to a place that is a good match for them so they can enjoy themselves and have a wonderful time. Which looks worse for the autistic community; a kid having a meltdown because his parents didn't know about an aspect of the place they went to or a kid having a good time at a place that has whatever accommodations or features he needs?

Plus, autistics are not the only people in the special needs community. There are plenty of others who need just as many, or more, accommodations than we do. So, for whatever reason he's got his panties in a wad over this and he probably really believes that most people will see it like he's afraid they will, but I can assure you that they won't. Some autistics who are paranoid about the same things he seems to be paranoid about may see it that way, but the general public won't. They will simply see it the same way the would see the same thing if it were published for parents of multiples, or parents on a budget, or non English speaking parents, etc etc. It's simply a book for parents in a particular situation to use as a resource to find fun places to take their kids that match their particular need. I don't know if this guy is actually denying that there are autistic folks who need special things or if he's saying that until we achieve whatever goal he's got in mind for his version of acceptance and equality that nobody should even think about doing fun and trivial things like taking their kid to the zoo, or what. I honestly have no clue as to where he's coming from except that he somehow sees a link between other things and accommodations and different needs. So, honestly don't worry about it making us look bad. It won't make anybody on the spectrum look bad.

Also, to answer Boo's post after the one I'm answering, I'm calm and not bickering. In this post I'm just trying to explain it in detail to Saria, so I went over everything again. I wanted to make sure I didn't overlook anything. I'm not bickering with Moro anymore, or reading him as I said earlier. There is no need to worry about that, I've let all that go. I mentioned him in this post to Saria and what his fears seem to be and what I understand to be his point of view because Saria seems to be concerned about it, so I tried to address the points I saw in it and explain how it's not anything to worry about. I didn't bring it up to try to "attack" anyone or anything like that, only to bring up what I think Saria is saying he might be concerned about and to address it. No worries at all, there won't be bickering or anything between us.

Also Saria, since you said you are a fan of theme parks, would you have a list of some in the US that might be good to have reviewed? I haven't compiled my list yet of places, so if you would like to do that it would be very helpful. This will probably take about a year to complete, but it will be a fun project to work on and really helpful to tons of parents.

Sorry to combine the two answers to Saria and Boo, but it's so freaking slow since the update to the site that it literally takes four or five minutes for the reply page to load and when I an trying to quote another post, it sometimes won't load at all. So I just did it this way. This is like dialup! Am I the only one with these problems from the update?

Reverse psychology. Thanks for sticking up for me, Olive. I don't have the upgraded equipment to film at the parks, or go to a lot of them considering my budget. I'll put it on hold for now since some other stuff has come up, and I can't tear myself away from my responsibilities.

I plan on reviewing Kings Island, Cedar Point, Dollywood, HersheyPark, Busch Gardens (Tampa & Williamsburg), Dorney Park, Six Flags Magic Mountain, Knott's Berry Farm, Wild Adventures, Magic Springs, Six Flags over Georgia, Six Flags Great Adventure, Six Flags over Texas, and Michigan's Adventure, Coney Island, Lagoon, Knobel's, Kings Dominion, Carowinds, Nickelodeon Universe at Mall of America, and Silverwood and few other small parks that I can find in the US. A mix of small and large parks.

I guess some people just have different mindsets.

Oh wow! You have a lot of places in mind! I'll have to get lots of other people to go to most places because I don't have the time or transportation to get there, but I know tons of people who do that anyway and plenty of people in other states who can go and answer the questions for me. I'm not planning on filming anything at all, just going and writing about everything that's pertinent to the special needs community. Also, I'm guessing that quite a few places will let either me, or whoever is going for me, in at either a reduced rate or free. I'm not looking for people to go and ride the rides or do things like that, but to check out everything and see what is needed and what is there, etc. I don't have my list of what to look for and what would be best avoided, and of course not everyone will want or not want the same things, so it will be more along the lines of a big list of questions about each place answered. This way parents can read through the answers and pick the place that fits their needs best, and also find places that offer special accommodations that they might need as well. It won't be exactly like a restaurant review, where you critique the service and the food and wine. It will be more about being extremely descriptive and listing everything possible about the place.

And it was no problem sticking up for you. You didn't do anything wrong, and in fact you had a good idea and gave me the jumping off point for something that I think will end up being great. Unlike a lot of times when I'm considering something, I've actually started researching this idea and getting my ideas together and getting feedback and this is extremely doable. It's not going to cost very much to get the first edition done, and publishing hardcopies wont be a problem, I'll grab a Writers Market and query appropriate publishers, and getting the website and online version up and running will be very easy for me, I'll get one of the kids friends to build the site - there are several who do that sort of thing for a living. So, it's just a matter of getting my lists of what info I need, and my list of places to review. I'll keep you updated on how it's going and when it's ready I'm absolutely going to put a special thank you to you in it, because if you hadn't mentioned it I would never have thought of it and I'd still be trying to find some place around here to do volunteer work to fill up my time now that my youngest has graduated. So, don't you give it a second thought, you did nothing wrong at all. In fact, you came up with the idea for something that is going to be a really great resource for tons of parents all over the country.

No, the AS community that will be invariably against this, are not "trolls and haters." Your idea, is ridiculous. I had no idea the issue was simply the theme parks. More than that, it's incredibly insulting to the AS community that have very real, and very serious problems to deal with. People that resent being represented as "having problems with theme parks," are NOT "trolls and haters."

So, now you accuse me of "acting like a prick." Despite the fact that everyone can plainly see that's not the case. That's disgraceful and appalling.



Yes it will. It will paint the spectrum as not only little kids, but drooling, daiper wearing invalids, non-functional, yet smearing poo on the walls, and having "special needs." It will perpetuate the vile stigmas that the AS community is fighting so hard to dispel. To anyone in support of this nonsense, put yourself in the position of someone that's though of as "poo swearer."



Ad pop doesn't make it a good idea. You bring them here, and I'll tell them it's a bad idea too.



AS people do not need pandering... We don't need "special treatment," from anyone. What we need, is to be accepted as normal people, and treated the same as anyone else. We don't need places of business to change their policies and regulate noise levels just for certain people. Loud places being too loud is a non-issue, what rot.



No, if a child is getting to the final stage of a meltdown then the blame rests squarely on the parents. You're not a caged animal when you're out in public, there are too many simple solutions to avoid sensory overexposure.



Are, you, KIDDING ME.

I made, a very well constructed argument, as to why it's an awful idea. YOU, completely ignored it, and made up a bunch of aspersions, and basically threw out my argument, and replaced it with an entirely fabricated straw man argument.

You asserted that I argued that such an idea will "cause parents to kill their kids, autistic folks to not get a job, and also genocide" when I said no such thing.

Then labeled all my well constructed points as "doom and gloom predictions," with the intention to "suck all the fun and enjoyment out of everything" when I didn't make any "doomsday predictions."

Then you started asking questions like:
"What in the hell have you got against parents taking their kids to a theme park?"
"Why don't you want parents to find out about certain "hot buttons" at a new place before they drive two hours there with their kids?"
"What have you got against people have a good time?"

Then you go on an ad hom tirade against me, saying I'm "throwing a fit," and "acting like a child," and you then give some extraordinarily condescending advice, on how to make arguments go a long way towards making "grownups listen to you," are you kidding me?

and you're STILL at it.

Are you here just to cause drama? It sure as hell looks that way to me.

Well excuse me for offending you! Besides, the project is scrapped anyway because I've got other things to do. I'll just resort back to taking off-ride videos of roller coasters. Now let's bury the hatchet, and forget any of this ever happened.

There are plenty of people who get upset over nothing and you shouldn't let them ruin your fun. I'm going to pursue this and publish a guide, it's a great idea. Everybody I've mentioned it to thinks it's something thats needed. The girl I know who is a teacher in a special school said that she knows lots of parents who rarely take their kids anywhere because they don't know of a lot of places that offer the accommodations they need for their kids. This will help more than autistic kids, there are lots of other types of special needs that aren't thought about and addressed in the entertainment and leisure field, and even when those accommodations are there to be offered, they aren't advertised in regular ads because the shorter your ad is, the less it costs and they advertise for the majority and expect those who want something different that may not be talked about to get in touch with them and ask. A lot of people don't think about doing that, and that is what this guide is for.

So far I have quite a few things on my list to look for, but I still need many more.

Also, every single thing that has ever been introduced, from the smallest to the biggest has been fought by somebody or put down by somebody because they either thought it was a stupid idea and not needed or they thought it was evil incarnate and would ruin the world. So, you have objections from small to completely overblown and insane to everything. Don't let it bother you. You can't please everybody.

Do you make those films from actually being on a roller coaster or a ride to show what it's like riding something? I've seen those and think they are cool. I'd like to see something like that in 3D. That would actually be a cool idea for an imax movie. We have an imax theater in Bham and they show all kinds of things. I don't know much about that, but isn't it sort of like 3D? An imax movie of being on lots of roller coasters and other thrill rides would probably make a lot of money. If you have the ability to do something like that then talk to whoever you have to talk to about to get it done and maybe make that a project to work on. Or even just make one without the imax. Hell, it sounds fun to do even if you just make it and put it on YouTube for folks to watch.

In other words, do what you want to do and don't let somebody discourage you. There is always somebody, somewhere out there to put everything down. Many people go overboard about things they are passionate about and aren't even logical about it because they are going with feelings rather than their brain. I'm like that about one thing, and I'll go off about it without even giving it too much though, because it's been happening all my life and I'm sick of hearing ignorant and uninformed and stubborn as*holes who have no clue what they are talking about constantly put me and everybody else down here down because we are Southern and they ASSume that we are racist when we aren't. So that's my issue that I go insane and illogical about. I have logical arguments but lately I'm too sick of the s**t to use them and I just bite rather than growl and bark about it. But then some people don't even have logical arguments and go with personal feelings rather than facts, and they skew the facts to support their argument, which is something that is so annoying it's unreal. You'll see a lot of that in people wanting to put a stop to something they personally don't like. It happened down here when they voted in alcohol sales because our county was dry. People were saying that if you vote yes to booze sales then you would go to hell. Some of them sort of wanted it to pass because they thought that it would make Jesus come back sooner to rapture all the Baptists away from the booze soaked sin filled county which was in their minds the last bastion of Christianity in a Pagan world. It passed and we have two liqour stores in town and all but the Piggly Wiggly sells beer and wine too, and Jesus hasn't come back and nothing bad has happened, so it's really best to just ignore illogical arguments and not let them bother you. This applies to everything in life, not just this one thread. I'm not just talking about this one thread and one guy's ideas either, so don't take it that way. You'll run into this kind of thing all your life and it's really best to ignore it and walk away from it.

So don't let somebody else's ideas stop you from doing what you want to do. If it's obviously not going to actually hurt someone, then go for it.

and If your "do what thou wilt" approach harms innocent people, is it still OK to do it? What about if acting on your wants, destroys the reputation of another, is that OK to do whatever you want? What if your actions end up spreading the vile stigmas, is that OK with you?



Except it will, as per all the points I've made that you can't or won't refute. Trying to rationalise it away with a few anecdotes won't magically make it harmless.

As if the decision was yours to make ...