How would a country run by autistics and aspergians look?

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Let's see what the reality is, shall we?

I started a poll HERE, to see just how many WP members might be fit to run Autististan.

Add your status to the poll, and after a while we should see a trend.

I don't think this site gives a full showcase of our abilities, I don't think it always brings out the best in us either. I think at some point, technology and innovation will make a notion like this possible. Making the infrastructure happen would require us to agree to and follow a system, I think it would take a lot of planning and even more implementing to get to the part where we all have shelter and running water all on our own.

I guess I'm more of an optimist because I think we can make capable followers. I'm not sure what we'd gain by distancing ourselves from NTs, maybe the luxury of calling our AS traits normal?

Well, until we have a meet-up of all the active members of WrongPlanet, their posts are all we have to go by to give an assessment of the organizational capabilities of the autistic "community".

Frankly, I have no hope for the viability of "Aspergia", "Autististan", or any other real-world societal concept composed solely of people on the autistic spectrum.

Well, you've obviously missed the point. You can't judge a society of autistics based on criteria from an NT world, which is exactly what your poll is doing (aside from being purposefully confusing). Any one of your standards in that poll has a strong SOCIAL component to it.

1. Degree-- a piece of paper that society deems equal to actual knowledge. There are some people on these forums that are way more knowledgeable than your average degree holder in their special interest areas. There are also hardcore problem solvers among us and people with bachelor's level science/math knowledge that aren't even high school age. The common complaint with higher education I read here isn't about ability, it's generally about getting stressed out being in a highly social environment-- it seems to take a lot of us multiple attempts due to burnout, and some just never go back. We also have a few among us that aren't that well learned or even concerned about educating themselves, but I doubt that's much higher or lower than the NT average-- autism doesn't affect intellect one way or another.

2. Job -- social issues are the main complaint if you read these forums. Lots of autistics have problems with interviews, which are a social judgement as much as anything qualification related-- modern companies want to make sure you fit their culture. Second biggest thing I read is that people have problems functioning socially on the job. Complete fail on office politics, that's a pretty consistent theme. There are some that just can't do their job very well, or any for that matter, but in all honesty I really don't think that rate is any higher or lower than the NT average either, they just lack the social skills to cover their back and actually keep their job.

3. Lives on one's own-- this one is sneakily social. The independent living standard is actually only applicable over the last 70 years or so, and is still only applicable in mainly western countries. Not economically enriched mind you, but western. Plus, over the last eight years and the overall leveling of the economy, there are more than a few NTs not living independently at the moment. Yes, there are many more autistics, but it's not solely an autistic problem, and even here in the near future it may no longer be the social standard.

4. Relationship-- again, completely social in nature. Even an NT would tell you in today's standards that's a purely social judgement. As we've found over the last 20 years or so you don't really need a steady relationship to procreate, people tend to f**k and have kids without needing social commitment just like most other animals. Not to wade too deep into sexual studies, but people tend to be attracted to members of the opposite sex that are like them. When you're surrounded by autistics, autism becomes the "in" thing-- you'd be amazed what being with the "in" crowd does to your attractiveness level.

Not to mention you're posting it under Adult Autism Issues, obviously a support section of a community that's based largely on support-- not that that would skew anything .

I believe it would be a failure.

I actually wrote about this on my blog http://www.savagelightstudios.com/warpedlens/?p=301

You are all way past the biggest problem which would be to start it. The executive dysfunction of initiation would be a problem. If you can get past that, a location has to be agreed upon, the existing country has to agree to give it up or we have to take that land by force.

The country will not be 100 percent autistic. No completly non diverse place exists in 2016 and two autistic parents far from guarentees an autistic child. So the country has got to decide what to do with thier NT's and who is autistic which will be a huuuuuge obstacle.

I do think the problems of workers and distribition is solvable if the leaders can undo years of NT priorities programmed into thier brains. Retail will be ordering on line and Autistic friendly working conditions will allow many of those who can not have success in employment now have success in this country.

GRASP is a multicity organization run by autistics for autistics and it has been around since the early 2000's while Aspies for Freedom tinged with elitism fell apart quickly. There is a lesson to be learned going forward.

We re not close to bieng ready. Lets set up autistic run business first then maybe autistic dominated business and see what happens there.

The odds of success are very very very long but one never says never.

Exactly. The number of NT's would become exponentially greater overthe generations and the number of autistics smaller. Eventually they would have taken over most institutions and deform them into the to fit the NT mind.

There'd also be the problem of convincing neurotypicals already living in what were to become the territory of the new country to leave in the first place

Even in the really unlikely event that this were achieved (obviously through some kind of state coërcion), it'd start a longstanding conflict like the one brought about by the creation of Israel. I greatly doubt the autistic country could handle it---it'd have enough problems already without this.

Fnord. firstly, I apologise if my previous use of language was inappropriate. I had a different interpretation of that word.

The autistic state in this is a thought experiment.
We need more autonomy, and I think I could trust another autistic on some things more than NT's. We don't have to let them dominate us.
When someone crosses my absolute boundaries, they will not get their way.
I want those of us that can stand up to oppressive NT's to protect the interests of those that can't, and finding a way to get organised is the only way, right now that we can, as far as I can see.

Do we really want to rely on sympathetic NT's to advocate for us? They are usually very nice people, but they are not us, and they will never totally get it. They can help, and we should embrace their gestures of kindness or we will make the same mistakes the worst of them do. But we can't rely on them forever.

I understand your concerns Fnord. I hope we can think of ways to address them together, as a community

Good luck with that. Standing up for myself alone already takes a lot of time and effort.Who is this 'we' you refer to? The same 'we' that believes that anyone who succeeds in life has somehow cheated 'we as a community' out of their 'fair share'? The same 'we' that believes 'we as a community' are somehow entitled to the wealth that successful people have earned on their own? The same 'we' that whines and moans about how 'we as a community' somehow deserves to be treated better than people who earn their living through hard work and perseverance?

Is that whom you mean by 'we as a community'?

I ask this because I don't seem to recall 'we as a community' addressing any of my concerns when I was being abused as a child, when I was homeless and unemployed as an adult, or when I was lying naked on a gurney in pre-op while waiting for the cardiac surgeon to finish his coffee.

There's the rub right there, we shouldn't be thinking in terms of trying to function like NT society. We're not hardwired with social rules, and with time anything within established social norms could easily be thrown entirely out the window.

The major hurdles to overcome I think are going to be keeping the peace and the handful of symptoms that are problematic in a vacuum (such as executive functioning). Fnord may have a point on the latter, as such a community would need to be self-sufficient. I hate to say it but it might not be able to support everyone with more serious impairments, at least not initially. You need a large proportion of the population to be able to produce more than they consume to keep the economy working. The good news is, with modern technology, it would be much easier to support a decent way of life in a small group of people than in the past. The best way I can think to handle the job situation is to find a way to turn special interests into something productive; for example, I have an interest in horticulture, and I could see that becoming a position maintaining hydroponic farms for food production.

In my experience we tend to thing in terms of absolutes, which can be a problem when it comes to people. I could see vigilantism becoming an issue. I would suggest that the way to deal with this would lie in the way children are educated; there's a greater need to focus on teaching self control, perhaps even having meditation classes in school. I suspect children raised in such an environment are probably far less likely to grow up with social maladjustments.

Still, it's an interesting thought experiment. If, someday, someone actually tried this and made it succeed, it would be quite a compelling argument for neurodiversity.

A very good question indeed.I have my theories on this on my laptop about this.I think it would be a very literal place to live in,more democratic than now as everything would be more open and transparent policy wise.

Here are the points i'd like to address (these are just theories so don't take it word for word):
1.The govt would be a social democracy at least due to a more people centred govt in place,if not socialist (don't get me started on the pros and cons of this) or technocratic.
2.I'd see a lot more disclaimer signs in shops and public places
3.We'd be a lot more litigious society since everything is taken literally and any deviation from that in any case would quickly cause problems which would escalate in ways we'd never expect.
4.There'd be a much stronger clampdown on NTs causing problems or misunderstandings for people with autism which I'd be perfectly fine with since I don't like them very much to begin with due to my poor life experiences with them.
5.The internet would have to be heavily policed to accommodate the needs for improved internet safety for people with autism as online trolling/bullying is too pervasive and a new govt can change this.Again I favour this.
6.More frequent elections due to less tolerance of unethical or questionable practices.
7.The NTs would be kept in line to ensure they don't cause trouble for us,since they cause a lot of issues for people with autism to begin with.
8.I'd end up seeing some form of Affirmative action or positive discrimination to address historical injustices people with autism faced meaning we'd get jobs much more easily which is what I want to see.Like South Africa did for the Black community after the Apartheid regime fell.
9.Social services would have to be completely dismantled and rebuilt not just for the 21st century but the 22nd as well to adapt for future needs.
10.We'd have to have (affirmative) consent classes in schools,colleges and universities especially when romantic relationships are involved to reduce the risks of associated issues both psychological and physical.
11.Firm Zero tolerance policies implemented everywhere in shops,education institutions,hospitals,etc to stop harassment and poor customer service.
12.Staff would get much better autism awareness training (like cultural sensitivity training)
and much more.What do you think of my theories in each aspect of society if run by neuro diverse individuals?

^In other words, Aspergia / Autististan would, by necessity, be an over-reaching "Mama-State" that coddles its citizens from birth to death.

No thanks. I'll take my chances in the Real World.

Not necessarily an 'overreaching state' but a state with more intervention that now as the last thing I want is to turn it into somewhere like China,which takes some of my ideas too far.Political extremes at either end are problematic and this is not what I advocate for.I accept that I wasn't clear enough on this area before.

My proposal simply focused on the improved safety net side of things rather than actually abolishing some individual freedoms as you ultimately need help to understand your decisions,hence the term 'informed consent' rather than saying ok 'we make all the decisions for you' as that idea is simply unsustainable.

In order for society to progress there must be 4 things,the way I see it:
1.An evolved ideology that moves beyond freedoms vs social wellbeing of others (assumed loss of 'freedoms') to a point where we are ultimately not divided by ideology anymore but through the accepted and established common good principles including key social policy and technological advancements enabling them to be a reality.
b.A citizens income is a good start I think as it ensures nobody faces the fear of losing their homes whilst allowing them to spend their time more constructively such as either focusing on jobs more,raising a family or even a hobby with strong incentives to do the right thing in life.
2.A much more adaptable system of govt with policies that make sense at all levels and can be sustained for not just the rest of the 21st century but future proof as well.
3.A complete reengineering of all social attitudes that can achieve the goal of greater acceptance and integration for people with autism at all levels of society.Meaning that we must stop obsessing over ideologies not fit for the 21st century as most of our systems are based from the 20th and even the 18th century in some cases.Sustainability and social stability is important if we are to successful address all the challenges we face now,climate change,human rights issues,discrimination,integration of all people in all areas of live,improve the justice,systems of govt,etc

I hope this clears up what I had in mind.

To quote from one of my favorite movies :

Another man's freedom is always another man's tyranny. That's why I don't believe that a society ruled exclusively by even the most Spock-like Aspies inevitably leads to greater prosperity than the system we have today or the systems we've had in the past...

Then again, it's gonna be very hard to come up with something worse than what we have today :