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Magna
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06 Oct 2019, 4:18 pm

I've signed up for their newsletter. One useful feature I found from the AANE website is a "wallet card" template to print off and use to give to law enforcement or first responders. I wish they'd update it to be autism spectrum focused rather than simply Asperger's, but it's better than nothing.

They also seem to have a free adult Asperger phone consultation that I'm going to sign up for just to see what that's about. I'll report back.



Mona Pereth
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07 Oct 2019, 5:07 pm

Magna wrote:
Your ideas on this subject are always something I welcome, Mona. The council you suggest is in line with what I'm talking about with there being an organization. Bottom up sounds good, but in order for a leadership council that would coalesce the geographically dispersed small groups, the leadership council would need to exist. In that sense, the organization aka leadership council or whatever else it would be called would have to be formed in order to prompt a network. In this sense, top down.

This is the challenge: Start entirely "bottom up" and each small group stays autonomous and oblivious to other groups and the formation of small groups would remain spontaneous and not driven by any organizational motivation.

I'm going to spend as much free time as I desire into researching the formation of an organization as well as working on forming a local group in my community since nothing like that exists now.

The larger organization should start out informal. It's premature to think about a formal non-profit organization until there are at least half a dozen of us who have gotten to know each other well enough to trust each other with things like money -- which means we shouldn't be in any hurry at all to do this.

One thing I have found out is that a formal nonprofit organization, here in the U.S.A., needs a board of directors of at least three people. This means it needs an already well-established core membership of more than three known-to-be-trustworthy people, so that, if a director quits, s/he can be replaced.

The preliminary informal network can start out as including just you and me and anyone else on Wrong Planet who wants to start a local group. All we would need to do, at the beginning, is hold periodic scheduled online chats (in addition to whatever all we need to do to launch our own local groups, of course).

Once we have members running at least three local groups that have each held monthly meetings for at least six months and have sites on Meetup.com with a visible track record of meetings, we will then be in a better position to be taken seriously by older, more established local peer-led Aspie/autistic adult groups, at which point we can start drawing representatives of those groups into the leadership council too.

We should aim to grow steadily but avoid biting off more than we can chew at any phase of development. We should avoid getting fancier or more bureaucratic than we need to be at any given phase, and we should avoid big-bang development. Based on my reading of the history of social movements, big-bang development tends to collapse into really nasty infighting.

Magna wrote:
On the collaboration factor for those that would be interested in pursuing anything related to this, there is a free online collaboration tool called: slack.com. It's a place where ideas can be exchanged and things can be worked on as a group. I'm thinking of creating a Magna gmail account to use for the purpose of online collaboration and brainstorming.

We can experiment with slack and see if it meets our needs. We can experiment with other chat sites too, such as Zulip.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 07 Oct 2019, 6:09 pm, edited 7 times in total.

Mona Pereth
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07 Oct 2019, 5:18 pm

Magna wrote:
I've signed up for their newsletter. One useful feature I found from the AANE website is a "wallet card" template to print off and use to give to law enforcement or first responders. I wish they'd update it to be autism spectrum focused rather than simply Asperger's, but it's better than nothing.

A "wallet card" per se is not a good idea. A cop will likely shoot you while you are reaching for it. Much better to have the card in a badge holder attached to a lanyard that can be worn around your neck.

Magna wrote:
They also seem to have a free adult Asperger phone consultation that I'm going to sign up for just to see what that's about. I'll report back.

I'll be very interested to hear what that's like.

I attend a monthly support group held by what is now the New York chapter of AANE, formerly a separate organization, the Aspergers and High Functioning Autism Association. Their next meeting is next week Tuesday. (See AANE-NY schedule here.)

AANE is a professional-led organization with a primary audience of professionals, a secondary audience of parents and families, and only a tertiary audience of adults on the spectrum. So it can't be a model for what we're trying to do, nor can we expect much if any help from AANE in our own organizing endeavors, although it's a relatively autistic-friendly organization, as organizations of its kind go.


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Magna
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07 Oct 2019, 9:17 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Magna wrote:
Your ideas on this subject are always something I welcome, Mona. The council you suggest is in line with what I'm talking about with there being an organization. Bottom up sounds good, but in order for a leadership council that would coalesce the geographically dispersed small groups, the leadership council would need to exist. In that sense, the organization aka leadership council or whatever else it would be called would have to be formed in order to prompt a network. In this sense, top down.

This is the challenge: Start entirely "bottom up" and each small group stays autonomous and oblivious to other groups and the formation of small groups would remain spontaneous and not driven by any organizational motivation.

I'm going to spend as much free time as I desire into researching the formation of an organization as well as working on forming a local group in my community since nothing like that exists now.

The larger organization should start out informal. It's premature to think about a formal non-profit organization until there are at least half a dozen of us who have gotten to know each other well enough to trust each other with things like money -- which means we shouldn't be in any hurry at all to do this.

One thing I have found out is that a formal nonprofit organization, here in the U.S.A., needs a board of directors of at least three people. This means it needs an already well-established core membership of more than three known-to-be-trustworthy people, so that, if a director quits, s/he can be replaced.

The preliminary informal network can start out as including just you and me and anyone else on Wrong Planet who wants to start a local group. All we would need to do, at the beginning, is hold periodic scheduled online chats (in addition to whatever all we need to do to launch our own local groups, of course).

Once we have members running at least three local groups that have each held monthly meetings for at least six months and have sites on Meetup.com with a visible track record of meetings, we will then be in a better position to be taken seriously by older, more established local peer-led Aspie/autistic adult groups, at which point we can start drawing representatives of those groups into the leadership council too.

We should aim to grow steadily but avoid biting off more than we can chew at any phase of development. We should avoid getting fancier or more bureaucratic than we need to be at any given phase, and we should avoid big-bang development. Based on my reading of the history of social movements, big-bang development tends to collapse into really nasty infighting.

Magna wrote:
On the collaboration factor for those that would be interested in pursuing anything related to this, there is a free online collaboration tool called: slack.com. It's a place where ideas can be exchanged and things can be worked on as a group. I'm thinking of creating a Magna gmail account to use for the purpose of online collaboration and brainstorming.

We can experiment with slack and see if it meets our needs. We can experiment with other chat sites too, such as Zulip.


Thank you for this, Mona. It's going to take me awhile to process all if it because it's rich with valuable content. I was disappointed to find out that meetup.com costs money. I wasn't so disappointed at the cost (approx $100 annually for the "organizer" (aka person who starts a group), but that meetup.com didn't mention a thing about cost until I went through multiple screens to sign up and then on the very last screen they mention cost. I did not sign up yet because I was perturbed at that moment.

You're right about the wallet card and there are instructions somewhere on the site that stressed the importance about telling law enforcement that you have the wallet card to speaks of your autism and to wait for instruction from law enforcement on what to do next. My free consult with an AANE person is next week.



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07 Oct 2019, 10:20 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Magna wrote:
Your ideas on this subject are always something I welcome, Mona. The council you suggest is in line with what I'm talking about with there being an organization. Bottom up sounds good, but in order for a leadership council that would coalesce the geographically dispersed small groups, the leadership council would need to exist. In that sense, the organization aka leadership council or whatever else it would be called would have to be formed in order to prompt a network. In this sense, top down.

This is the challenge: Start entirely "bottom up" and each small group stays autonomous and oblivious to other groups and the formation of small groups would remain spontaneous and not driven by any organizational motivation.

I'm going to spend as much free time as I desire into researching the formation of an organization as well as working on forming a local group in my community since nothing like that exists now.

The larger organization should start out informal. It's premature to think about a formal non-profit organization until there are at least half a dozen of us who have gotten to know each other well enough to trust each other with things like money -- which means we shouldn't be in any hurry at all to do this.

One thing I have found out is that a formal nonprofit organization, here in the U.S.A., needs a board of directors of at least three people. This means it needs an already well-established core membership of more than three known-to-be-trustworthy people, so that, if a director quits, s/he can be replaced.

The preliminary informal network can start out as including just you and me and anyone else on Wrong Planet who wants to start a local group. All we would need to do, at the beginning, is hold periodic scheduled online chats (in addition to whatever all we need to do to launch our own local groups, of course).

Once we have members running at least three local groups that have each held monthly meetings for at least six months and have sites on Meetup.com with a visible track record of meetings, we will then be in a better position to be taken seriously by older, more established local peer-led Aspie/autistic adult groups, at which point we can start drawing representatives of those groups into the leadership council too.

We should aim to grow steadily but avoid biting off more than we can chew at any phase of development. We should avoid getting fancier or more bureaucratic than we need to be at any given phase, and we should avoid big-bang development. Based on my reading of the history of social movements, big-bang development tends to collapse into really nasty infighting.

Magna wrote:
On the collaboration factor for those that would be interested in pursuing anything related to this, there is a free online collaboration tool called: slack.com. It's a place where ideas can be exchanged and things can be worked on as a group. I'm thinking of creating a Magna gmail account to use for the purpose of online collaboration and brainstorming.

We can experiment with slack and see if it meets our needs. We can experiment with other chat sites too, such as Zulip.


You're right, Mona. Zulip does look better than Slack in doing a cursory review of the two.



Mona Pereth
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08 Oct 2019, 8:07 am

Magna wrote:
Thank you for this, Mona. It's going to take me awhile to process all if it because it's rich with valuable content. I was disappointed to find out that meetup.com costs money. I wasn't so disappointed at the cost (approx $100 annually for the "organizer" (aka person who starts a group), but that meetup.com didn't mention a thing about cost until I went through multiple screens to sign up and then on the very last screen they mention cost. I did not sign up yet because I was perturbed at that moment.

I'll probably be starting a Meetup group of my own sometime in the not-too-distant future.

Right now, here in Queens, I have a small discussion group that isn't publicly advertised, consisting of some people I've met at already-existing larger support groups that meet in Manhattan. I should start publicly advertising it sometime soon via Meetup.

Magna wrote:
You're right about the wallet card and there are instructions somewhere on the site that stressed the importance about telling law enforcement that you have the wallet card to speaks of your autism and to wait for instruction from law enforcement on what to do next.

That's no good for a person with any tendency at all to clam up in stressful situations.

Magna wrote:
My free consult with an AANE person is next week.

I look forward to hearing about this. Where on AANE's website is this mentioned, if you can find it again?


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08 Oct 2019, 12:56 pm

Magna wrote:
I'd like to hear ideas about what kinds of things you'd want a small group you'd join to focus on. Your 'wish list'.

What specific things would you like your small group to do and to be for you?

Examples:

>Snacks
>Presentations on self-advocacy tips
>Life skills networking and assistance from within the group (ie sharing talents to help each other)
>Group sharing on anything related to each person's life since the last meeting (support)
>Book club on autism specific books
>Exchanging emails, setting up a group email and people connecting anytime on Google chat, etc.
>Breaking into sub-groups based on interests and reporting back to the main group periodically.
Example: 'Think tank' sub-group focusing on ways to foster positive autism awareness in the community
>Game time
>Group field trips, hikes, museums, picnics, restaurant outings, etc.
>Holiday parties
>Splinter support and friendship group of NT partners and spouses. Field trips and holiday parties could be attended by the autistic group members and their partners/spouses

Those are just some ideas. I'd like to hear from as many people as possible as to their personal desires as to the kind of small group they'd like to be a part of and what kinds of things they'd like their small group to do.

Those are just some ideas.

All of the above are potential good ideas.

At some point, hopefully next year, I hope to create a website that can provide chatrooms, message boards, and email announcement lists for people organizing local groups.

(Mainstream social media such as Facebook should be avoided, for privacy reasons, in my opinion, except perhaps for the purpose of additional publicity beyond the afore-mentioned website plus Meetup plus our sigs here on Wrong Planet and other similar forums.)


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 08 Oct 2019, 4:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mona Pereth
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08 Oct 2019, 1:12 pm

One thing we need to keep in mind: Accommodating a variety of different kinds of autistic people in a single in-person group meeting is going to be very difficult. In the long run, we are going to need multiple in-person groups per locale, or perhaps one group with a variety of differently-structured meetings aiming to accommodate different kinds of autistic people.

It won't be possible to accommodate everyone at the beginning, but there should be an aim of accommodating more and more kinds of autistic people at different kinds of meetings as the group grows.

Besides the different "levels" of autism, there are incompatibilities of attention issues. As I see it, autistic people commonly have one or more of the following three kinds of attention-focus issues, with different resulting needs regarding in-person social interaction:

1) Co-occurring ADHD. Results in a strong preference for spontaneity, with lots of free-wheeling tangential conversation.

2) What, for lack of a better term, I will call "reverse ADHD." Little or no difficulty concentrating, but more-than-normal difficulty with multi-tasking and with shifting one's attention from one topic to another. Results in a strong preference for structured, highly-focused, goal-oriented discussions on pre-announced topics of interest.

3) Difficulty filtering out sensory distractions. In extreme cases this means meetings must take place in a well-sound-proofed rented room, plus there may also need to be an additional small room (e.g. a closet) that people can retreat to when feeling sensory overload. An informal get-together at a diner would not work.

Besides the above three kinds of attention issues, a substantial fraction of autistic people also have extreme sensory sensitivities, requiring not only a well sound-proofed rented room, but also careful attention to the lighting in the room and making sure there are no subtle (to most people) bad odors. (Accommodation of olfactory sensitivities can begin by simply requesting that all attendees wear unscented deorderant and no perfume.)

Yet another major category of autistic people to be accommodated, at least eventually, is extreme introverts, for whose sake color communication badges were invented.

It is difficult if not impossible to accommodate all of the above in one group meeting, especially in the early stages when there are too few regular attendees to justify renting a room of any kind, so the only choice at that point would be meeting at a diner.

For this reason, I think any in-person organizing effort needs to be supplemented with locale-based online forums and chatrooms. It's easier for us all to get along online than in-person, at least when there are good moderators. So, people who aren't adequately accommodated by any of the group's in-person meetings can participate in the group's online chat, with the understanding that there will eventually be in-person meetings for them once the local organization gets big enough.

Currently, as far as I can tell, most already-existing local peer-led autistic adult support groups do NOT aim to accommodate a variety of attention-focus issues, sensory issues, etc. They just do whatever happens to most convenient for the leaders, without even an eventual aim of accommodating a wider variety of autistic people.

On the other hand, the earliest autistic adult organization, Autism Network International, did aim to accommodate extreme introverts and people with extreme sensory sensitivities at its conferences. (See History of ANI.) Subsequent similar conferences like Autscape have followed suit.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 08 Oct 2019, 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bravo5150
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08 Oct 2019, 3:47 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
One thing we need to keep in mind: Accommodating a variety of different kinds of autistic people in a single in-person group meeting is going to be very difficult. In the long run, we are going to need multiple in-person groups per locale, or perhaps one group with a variety of differently-structured meetings aiming to accommodate different kinds of autistic people.

It won't be possible to accommodate everyone at the beginning, but there should be an aim of accommodating more and more kinds of autistic people at different kinds of meetings as the group grows.

Besides the different "levels" of autism, there are incompatibilities of attention issues. As I see it, autistic people commonly have one or more of the following three kinds of attention-focus issues, with different resulting needs regarding in-person social interaction:

1) Co-occurring ADHD. Results in a strong preference for spontaneity, with lots of free-wheeling tangential conversation.

2) What, for lack of a better term, I will call "reverse ADHD." Little or no difficulty concentrating, but more-than-normal difficulty with multi-tasking and with shifting one's attention from one topic to another. Results in a strong preference for structured, highly-focused, goal-oriented discussions on pre-announced topics of interest.

3) Difficulty filtering out sensory distractions. In extreme cases this means meetings must take place in a well-sound-proofed rented room, plus there may also need to be an additional small room (e.g. a closet) that people can retreat to when feeling sensory overload. An informal get-together at a diner would not work.

Besides the above three kinds of attention issues, a substantial fraction of autistic people also have extreme sensory sensitivities, requiring not only a well sound-proofed rented room, but also careful attention to the lighting in the room and making sure there are no subtle (to most people) bad odors. (Accommodation of olfactory sensitivities can begin by simply requesting that all attendees wear unscented deorderant and no perfume.)

Yet another major category of autistic people to be accommodated, at least eventually, is extreme introverts, for whose sake color communication badges were invented.

It is difficult if not impossible to accommodate all of the above in one group meeting, especially in the early stages when there are too few regular attendees to justify renting a room of any kind, so the only choice at that point would be meeting at a diner.

For this reason, I think any in-person organizing effort needs to be supplemented with locale-based online forums and chatrooms. It's easier for us all to get along online than in-person, at least when there are good moderators. So, people who aren't adequately accommodated by any of the group's in-person meetings can participate in the group's online chat, with the understanding that there will eventually be in-person meetings for them once the local organization gets big enough.

Currently, as far as I can tell, most already-existing local peer-led autistic adult support groups do NOT aim to accommodate a variety of attention-focus issues, sensory issues, etc. They just do whatever happens to most convenient for the leaders, without even an eventual aim of accommodating a wider variety of autistic people.

On the other hand, the earliest autistic adult organization, Autism Network International, did aim to accommodate extreme introverts and people with extreme sensory sensitivities at its conferences. Subsequent similar conferences like Autscape have followed suit.


Since you bought up several differences, do you mind a research project as far as where magna brought up a question about snacks?



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08 Oct 2019, 4:49 pm

The Asperger / Autism Network (AANE) www.aane.org offers favorable examples of resources to best serve adults on the Autism Spectrum.



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08 Oct 2019, 4:59 pm

JustFoundHere wrote:
The Asperger / Autism Network (AANE) http://www.aane.org offers favorable examples of resources to best serve adults on the Autism Spectrum.


I went to their site and didn't see anything on snack ideas when searching a few food related search terms.



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08 Oct 2019, 7:25 pm

Bravo5150 wrote:
Since you bought up several differences, do you mind a research project as far as where magna brought up a question about snacks?

If you'd like to research this issue, sure, go ahead. But, personally, I don't see this as an issue that needs to be addressed on a national or even regional level. It seems to me that this would be up to the local group, based on what's available in the neighborhood and the tastes of the members. But, if you think there should be any general guidelines beyond that, feel free to share them.

JustFoundHere wrote:
The Asperger / Autism Network (AANE) http://www.aane.org offers favorable examples of resources to best serve adults on the Autism Spectrum.

AANE has already been discussed in this thread; see various posts earlier in this thread.

Bravo5150 wrote:
JustFoundHere wrote:
The Asperger / Autism Network (AANE) http://www.aane.org offers favorable examples of resources to best serve adults on the Autism Spectrum.


I went to their site and didn't see anything on snack ideas when searching a few food related search terms.

JustFoundHere can speak for himself, but I don't think his post was in reference to your suggestion re: snacks. I think it was in reference to the general topic of the thread.


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08 Oct 2019, 7:36 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Bravo5150 wrote:
Since you bought up several differences, do you mind a research project as far as where magna brought up a question about snacks?

If you'd like to research this issue, sure, go ahead. But, personally, I don't see this as an issue that needs to be addressed on a national or even regional level. It seems to me that this would be up to the local group, based on what's available in the neighborhood and the tastes of the members. But, if you think there should be any general guidelines beyond that, feel free to share them.

JustFoundHere wrote:
The Asperger / Autism Network (AANE) http://www.aane.org offers favorable examples of resources to best serve adults on the Autism Spectrum.

AANE has already been discussed in this thread; see various posts earlier in this thread.

Bravo5150 wrote:
JustFoundHere wrote:
The Asperger / Autism Network (AANE) http://www.aane.org offers favorable examples of resources to best serve adults on the Autism Spectrum.


I went to their site and didn't see anything on snack ideas when searching a few food related search terms.

JustFoundHere can speak for himself, but I don't think his post was in reference to your suggestion re: snacks. I think it was in reference to the general topic of the thread.


As far as snacks, I can speak of reading of four different diets that may be an issue: Ketogenic, GFCF, Tyramine free, and Vegan. I can't seem to come up with anything besides mixed nuts to fit into all four categories. I don't know if you would want to try to make a lengthier list or have another idea on how to do the snacks idea.



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08 Oct 2019, 7:55 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Magna wrote:
I'd like to hear ideas about what kinds of things you'd want a small group you'd join to focus on. Your 'wish list'.

What specific things would you like your small group to do and to be for you?

Examples:

>Snacks
>Presentations on self-advocacy tips
>Life skills networking and assistance from within the group (ie sharing talents to help each other)
>Group sharing on anything related to each person's life since the last meeting (support)
>Book club on autism specific books
>Exchanging emails, setting up a group email and people connecting anytime on Google chat, etc.
>Breaking into sub-groups based on interests and reporting back to the main group periodically.
Example: 'Think tank' sub-group focusing on ways to foster positive autism awareness in the community
>Game time
>Group field trips, hikes, museums, picnics, restaurant outings, etc.
>Holiday parties
>Splinter support and friendship group of NT partners and spouses. Field trips and holiday parties could be attended by the autistic group members and their partners/spouses

Those are just some ideas. I'd like to hear from as many people as possible as to their personal desires as to the kind of small group they'd like to be a part of and what kinds of things they'd like their small group to do.

Those are just some ideas.

All of the above are potential good ideas.

At some point, hopefully next year, I hope to create a website that can provide chatrooms, message boards, and email announcement lists for people organizing local groups.

(Mainstream social media such as Facebook should be avoided, for privacy reasons, in my opinion, except perhaps for the purpose of additional publicity beyond the afore-mentioned website plus Meetup plus our sigs here on Wrong Planet and other similar forums.)


Your website idea sounds like a perfect online hub for individual groups to form a network. I like it.



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08 Oct 2019, 7:59 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Magna wrote:
My free consult with an AANE person is next week.

I look forward to hearing about this. Where on AANE's website is this mentioned, if you can find it again?


This page is where I found the free consult for New Yorkers and then for everyone else right below it.



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09 Oct 2019, 3:02 am

Bravo5150 wrote:
As far as snacks, I can speak of reading of four different diets that may be an issue: Ketogenic, GFCF, Tyramine free, and Vegan. I can't seem to come up with anything besides mixed nuts to fit into all four categories. I don't know if you would want to try to make a lengthier list or have another idea on how to do the snacks idea.

Agreed that it's good to be aware of the more common diets and to aim, at least eventually, to accommodate them. In some places, such as parts of NYC, religious dietary restrictions (kosher and halal) are also a concern.


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