Flu Shots

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Amen to that, echinacea (correct spelling ) is magical stuff. I take it through winter (with the needed breaks!) and rarely get ill, never for longer than a day or two at a time. Vitamin C too - if you get a high-strength, natural, good-quality one and take a few grams a day you'll not only feel better, but it kicks illness' butt. Taking high doses at the first sign often stops it happening at all.

Other goodies I'd suggest are good old honey and lemon for a cold (using real lemons and real honey, not sugar-filled additive-riddled crap - manuka honey being the best), apple cider vinegar gargled or swallowed either neat or in water to bring back a lost voice and stop throat infections, a teaspoon of manuka honey a day to stop illness, sea-salt gargles for mouthwash...

Mother nature always provides; she's been around long enough, hasn't she?

My parents used to take high doses of echinacea for things like this.


They still got sick.

Course people will still get sick taking it - what else did they do? What did they eat? How much did they sleep? General health? Etc etc. The one thing you can be certain of though is it's ability to make illness less severe and last a shorter duration. The stuff has been used for thousands of years and proven over and over again in tests - it's not really one of the ones to be taking to task.

"They still got sick."
With *what*?
There's a difference between bacterial and viral infection.

The reason that people like myself are supposed to get flu shots, etc., is to prevent getting serious secondary infections like pneumonia.

I used to get bronchitis or pneumonia every time I got a cold or flu. For several years in a row, I got the flu shot (which only lasts so long). Instead of getting the flu and bronchitis in the winter, I'd get the flu and pneumonia in the summer, and spend 2 weeks in bed.

I stopped taking the flu shot and looking into nutritional supplements and alternative treaments.
Now, I get the flu, and it goes away relatively quickly. I don't take echinecia for the flu; I take it to prevent the bronchitis or pneumonia.

In fact, having been on IV antibiotics and very high doses of antibiotic pills, there are distinctive symptoms one gets when one has been on high doses of antibiotics. When I take a large amount of echinecia (6 pills a day 4 times a day), I feel just like i've been on an IV.

Echinacea is magical stuff, I can't understand people who ridicule it without having tried it or getting the effects of it!!

It's the way that you (and others before you) promote it that makes me wary.

Well, the reason I promote it is that it works wonderfully, since I've been taking it I've not been ill and the few times I have been it's only lasted a day or so and been very mild (think, a runny nose and itchy throat vs being cooped up in bed all day with a high fever, sweats, chills, etc). So of course I tell people about it and say how good it is, I want to share that with other people. If there's one thing I hate it's seeing other people sick and suffering, so if I find something that can stop that and doesn't come with side effects when taken properly it's great and I will go on and on about it (that could just be the aspie in me talking 'at' people, but nevertheless...).

It's no different than drug companies pushing their stuff on me, or people saying "I found this stuff called ibuprofen, it's brilliant, if you ever feel sore then take it and it'll fix you up real good!", but it comes without the side effects, prevents rather than treats symptoms (though the way it lessens the duration of illness you could argue is treating symptoms too), and I dare say is touted in a far more altruistic manner than the drug companies.

I don't gain anything from promoting it - it's a plant that grows everywhere, get some of your own! - other than seeing other people less ill and not suffering so much.

If that makes it any clearer for you? I don't mean to make you wary of it, again - I just hate seeing people suffer!

Most peculiar... rather than using well controlled and monitored treatments, you are happy to stick large amounts of untested Echinacea plant bits inside yourself, and advocate that others should also do so.

I prefer to use neither, but should I need to make the choice between a dubious North American plant with some sporadic, anecdotal recommendations and a well researched and documented specific treatment, I will always choose the latter.

It's hardly untested; on top of being used for thousands of years for this purpose (which should be proof enough of its safety, I don't think anyone would keep eating something that hurt their friends, regardless of how 'primitive' they may be) it's been tested, monitored, trialled and proven time and again in recent years.

I'd rather take something herbal that works and has no side effects than a dangerous, synthetic chemical compound with a great list of side effects and dubious impact on your heart, stomach, etc. But I guess it depends on where your priorities lie, right?

The tests exist only in your imagination. It's so trivial to refute your unsubstantiated claims. If you have some genuine science to quote, by all means do so.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/353/4/341

Conclusions The results of this study indicate that extracts of E. angustifolia root, either alone or in combination, do not have clinically significant effects on infection with a rhinovirus or on the clinical illness that results from it.

Ahhh, no, you probably wouldn't see much of a difference in that study.

Problem: Dosage.

If you want any effect, most herbalists etc will recommend you take doses of between 800-1200mg several times a day; 300mg won't do much. Also, most tested stuff is dried herb, whereas freshly prepared extracts kept in an alcohol base are far more potent and retain the healing properties. The pills you buy in most shops are ok, and you might get some effect if you take enough, but you won't get anything near what the plant is capable of when taken properly.

When taking drugs, ask a chemist.

When taking herbal remedies, ask a herbalist.


That simple.

When you want science, ask a chemist.

When you want fancy footwork, ask a herbalist.

There's not much fancy footwork there, only nature's medicine cabinet free for all to use...

(Yeah, free. Guess that's where the problem is, right?)

Ah. So these herbalists give away all their time and concoctions? They will compensate you for any lack of effect, or ill effects?

(I note you have yet to give any reference to solid evidence, but that's no surprise.)

If they're a licensed practitioner, that should be covered in their license.

(As with anything, don't go to any old random off the street, make sure you're going to someone with a good reptutation who knows what they're talking about and has the licenses and paperwork and qualifications to prove it!)

And what would a "licence" look like? Do herbalists give each other licences? I gather that is what you are talking about... these people who call themselves "master herbalists".

Herbs are drugs. I prefer to get my drugs from someone who knows what they are talking about.