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Leave the pro-cure groups alone

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MizLiz
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13 Dec 2008, 3:11 am

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Especially since so many people get the idea (largely from organizations like Autism Speaks and media articles) that autism is such a devastating tragedy.

Which is why in my very first post in this topic, I expressed my contempt for groups like Autism Speaks. I'm not opposed to a cure. I'm opposed to groups like them.



MizLiz
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13 Dec 2008, 3:14 am

Gamma knife radiosurgery? Are you sure it was autism and not a brain tumor?

A brain tumor can, depending on its location and size, mimic an ASD.



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13 Dec 2008, 3:23 am

No it was a clear attempt to alter the mind using the gamma knife, see http://redalyc.uaemex.mx/redalyc/pdf/582/58212904.pdf


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rdos
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13 Dec 2008, 4:05 am

jimmister wrote:
You have every right to have your opinion, but wouldn't you rather have good social skills than other positive aspie traits, in order to get married and have a family?


Many Aspies do get families and children. The difference between NT and Aspie reproduction is not that big (a few percents). I base this on about 19,000 answers on Aspie-quiz about relationship status and number of children. I also have a new investigation going that compare scores between partners in a relationship, and it so far (with a typical autism-research population size) lends significant support for asortative mating in Aspies. We would expect over 90% of the partners of Aspies to be NTs if random partner selection was at work, but instead slightly more partners are also Aspies. IOW, the recipe for success in the family-area does not seem to be "emulate NTs", but instead find a matching partner of your own kind.



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13 Dec 2008, 9:14 am

I'm thinking that what the folks want to "cure" (in quotes because they may not mean the same thing we do) is severe autism. And, in my opinion, that's not something there will ever be a genetic test for because it's not strictly genetic. And I expect a lot of parents with autistic children who have a "cure" mindset would consider a "cure" something that puts their child in the range of normal, from that parents perceptions, and as such a lot of times moving to the high functioning end of the spectrum, would be a cure, from their viewpoint.



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13 Dec 2008, 9:56 am

fbug wrote:
jimmister wrote:
Hello.

I just want to tell you all to leave the pro-cure groups alone.

You have every right to have your opinion, but wouldn't you rather have good social skills than other positive aspie traits, in order to get married and have a family? Sure, aspies can do that, but it's a lot trickier (the troubling challenge of finding someone plus all the years God has cost me of having to learn social skills, I don't even feel like learning). Getting married and having a family is the MOST important thing I want to do in my entire lifetime, aside from everything else. What do you say?


:evil: No, I don't think so, bub. They're the ones who need to leave us alone and let us live how we please. As for how it is "a lot trickier" to learn social skills, that would not be the case if there were appropriate treatment to help overcome those issues. Instead all those people want to do is try to "cure" people who they determine to be "disabled", but the truth is ASDs can not be cured any more than left-handedness can be cured. The real issue here is not needing a cure, but the need for people to tolerate those who are different. We'll leave them alone as soon as they stop saying people that they don't approve of are "diseased", "disabled", or "broken" and need to be "fixed." Everyone has the right to be who they are without anyone interfering as long as they're not infringing on the rights of anyone else.

And by the way, if there are some wants a cure for themselves, so be it. That is their right But the whole idea of a cure is instead being pushed on those who do not want it and are happy with who they are.

The sort of lowlifes supporting the idea of a cure are no different than those who put disabled people in institutions to "protect" society from them, if not those who perpetrated the Holocaust.


... and the inevitable Nazi reference. I knew it was coming.



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13 Dec 2008, 10:18 am

slowmutant wrote:
fbug wrote:
jimmister wrote:
Hello.

I just want to tell you all to leave the pro-cure groups alone.

You have every right to have your opinion, but wouldn't you rather have good social skills than other positive aspie traits, in order to get married and have a family? Sure, aspies can do that, but it's a lot trickier (the troubling challenge of finding someone plus all the years God has cost me of having to learn social skills, I don't even feel like learning). Getting married and having a family is the MOST important thing I want to do in my entire lifetime, aside from everything else. What do you say?


:evil: No, I don't think so, bub. They're the ones who need to leave us alone and let us live how we please. As for how it is "a lot trickier" to learn social skills, that would not be the case if there were appropriate treatment to help overcome those issues. Instead all those people want to do is try to "cure" people who they determine to be "disabled", but the truth is ASDs can not be cured any more than left-handedness can be cured. The real issue here is not needing a cure, but the need for people to tolerate those who are different. We'll leave them alone as soon as they stop saying people that they don't approve of are "diseased", "disabled", or "broken" and need to be "fixed." Everyone has the right to be who they are without anyone interfering as long as they're not infringing on the rights of anyone else.

And by the way, if there are some wants a cure for themselves, so be it. That is their right But the whole idea of a cure is instead being pushed on those who do not want it and are happy with who they are.

The sort of lowlifes supporting the idea of a cure are no different than those who put disabled people in institutions to "protect" society from them, if not those who perpetrated the Holocaust.


... and the inevitable Nazi reference. I knew it was coming.


You should be thankful you live in a time where you can mock such ideals.



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13 Dec 2008, 10:31 am

jimmister wrote:
Hello.

I just want to tell you all to leave the pro-cure groups alone.

I generally do.

jimmister wrote:
You have every right to have your opinion,

Yes, yes I do. No need to remind me of that. But that statement contridicts your first statement, you know.

jimmister wrote:
but wouldn't you rather have good social skills than other positive aspie traits,

No. I don't even have any of the "positive" traits, as far as I'm aware. Still don't want to be cured, thank you.

jimmister wrote:
in order to get married and have a family?

I already have a family. Unless you mean having kids, in which case, I don't desire kids anyways. As for being married... if it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, I'm not going to die or anything.

jimmister wrote:
Sure, aspies can do that, but it's a lot trickier

Sometimes, not always. It can depend on luck. And everyone has things that are "tricky" for them. Not just aspies/auties/whatever.

jimmister wrote:
Getting married and having a family is the MOST important thing I want to do in my entire lifetime, aside from everything else.

Why? It's not the end of the world if you can't do that, you know. And it's quite possible it will happen.





Spokane_Girl wrote:
If a cure does indeed come, it's not like they are going to walk up to us and make us take it.

Oh, I think that's up to debate. And while they might not just go walk up and force it onto someone, there are other ways to force or coerce someone into something.
Like, say, taking away that nice bit of money you get if you can't work...


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slowmutant
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13 Dec 2008, 10:33 am

violet_yoshi wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
fbug wrote:
jimmister wrote:
Hello.

I just want to tell you all to leave the pro-cure groups alone.

You have every right to have your opinion, but wouldn't you rather have good social skills than other positive aspie traits, in order to get married and have a family? Sure, aspies can do that, but it's a lot trickier (the troubling challenge of finding someone plus all the years God has cost me of having to learn social skills, I don't even feel like learning). Getting married and having a family is the MOST important thing I want to do in my entire lifetime, aside from everything else. What do you say?


:evil: No, I don't think so, bub. They're the ones who need to leave us alone and let us live how we please. As for how it is "a lot trickier" to learn social skills, that would not be the case if there were appropriate treatment to help overcome those issues. Instead all those people want to do is try to "cure" people who they determine to be "disabled", but the truth is ASDs can not be cured any more than left-handedness can be cured. The real issue here is not needing a cure, but the need for people to tolerate those who are different. We'll leave them alone as soon as they stop saying people that they don't approve of are "diseased", "disabled", or "broken" and need to be "fixed." Everyone has the right to be who they are without anyone interfering as long as they're not infringing on the rights of anyone else.

And by the way, if there are some wants a cure for themselves, so be it. That is their right But the whole idea of a cure is instead being pushed on those who do not want it and are happy with who they are.

The sort of lowlifes supporting the idea of a cure are no different than those who put disabled people in institutions to "protect" society from them, if not those who perpetrated the Holocaust.


... and the inevitable Nazi reference. I knew it was coming.


You should be thankful you live in a time where you can mock such ideals.


Nazi ideals? No, I wouldn't try to make light of Nazism or the Holocaust.



Fayed
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13 Dec 2008, 10:48 am

It's called Godwin's Law. The longer a thread goes on, the greater the chances of a reference to the Holocaust. People refer to the Holocaust because it brings up emotion in people.

Pro-Cure = Experience with LFA.
Anti-Cure = Experience with HFA.

That being said, there will always be exceptions to the rule. There will be some LFA against a cure and some HFA that are for it. It's because while HFA and LFA may both be autism, there experience with them can be very different. HFA assume that because they are under the autism umbrella, that their experiences are close to the LFA's. The two can be very different. Most HFA here can't that ALL of their language is echolalic, and seeing as their in there 20's, that probably won't change any time soon. How many here can say that they understand and can say yes, but the idea of no is only communicated via a head shake ( the word "no" is not said)? People here seem to think that the whole idea of "horrible autism" is an idea created by parents wanting normal kids. I'm not saying some cases aren't just that, but maybe not everyone with autism okay with it. By rejecting the idea of a cure, your reject that persons ability to maybe be the person they want to be. How many here have said if the rest of the world would just let them be the way they want to be ( the way they "are"), things would be easier?

What would all the anti-curbies think of a cure that effects only those on the LFA end of the spectrum who are effected to the point of being extremely limited in there communication? IE non-verbal (24/7), limited sign, meltdown at minor changes in routine, no sense of danger, etc.

BTW I don't have an opinion in terms of a cure. If one was developed, IMO It should be a choice



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13 Dec 2008, 10:58 am

Fayed wrote:
What would all the anti-curbies think of a cure that effects only those on the LFA end of the spectrum who are effected to the point of being extremely limited in there communication? IE non-verbal (24/7), limited sign, meltdown at minor changes in routine, no sense of danger, etc.

I wouldn't care.... if I thought it was always going to be a choice, entirely up to the autistic person. But I don't think that'd be the way of it.

I'm not against a cure, per se. What I'm against are "cure"s, and a CURE (also any harmful "treatment"), if that makes sense.


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slowmutant
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13 Dec 2008, 11:02 am

It makes sense.



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13 Dec 2008, 11:07 am

slowmutant wrote:
It makes sense.


Okay, cool. I have trouble explaining that sometimes. :?


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rdos
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13 Dec 2008, 3:24 pm

Fayed wrote:
It's called Godwin's Law. The longer a thread goes on, the greater the chances of a reference to the Holocaust. People refer to the Holocaust because it brings up emotion in people.

Pro-Cure = Experience with LFA.
Anti-Cure = Experience with HFA.



I would put it in another way:

Pro-Cure LFA = cure comorbid conditions to Autism
Anti-Cure HFA = keep the personality traits.

There is actually little conflict here. I wish we could come up with some common ground terms that we can identify with the same meaning. Cure is a horrible term because it obviously has so different meanings to parents with LFA-kids and adults with HFAs. Especially since there is absolutely no cure today for the personality-traits, while there do exist cures for many of the comorbid conditions.



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13 Dec 2008, 4:03 pm

jimmister wrote:
Hello.

I just want to tell you all to leave the pro-cure groups alone.

You have every right to have your opinion, but wouldn't you rather have good social skills than other positive aspie traits, in order to get married and have a family? Sure, aspies can do that, but it's a lot trickier (the troubling challenge of finding someone plus all the years God has cost me of having to learn social skills, I don't even feel like learning). Getting married and having a family is the MOST important thing I want to do in my entire lifetime, aside from everything else. What do you say?


How about YOU leave us the f**k alone?



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13 Dec 2008, 4:12 pm

Also to OP, I noticed that you were talking about what is important to YOU. Your life, what you want out of life. So I guess that means everyone must value everything you value? Is that considered a lack of empathy? Not being able to put yourself in an auties shoes?

How would you like it if because you weren't able to excel in subjects you found utterly boring but I found fascinating that I declared genetic war on anyone like you?

Maybe if pro-cure groups would team up with the ones they claim to be standing up for (auties) against those who are pushing for prenatal screening for genocide and ask these people who are collecting donations for a cure to actually find suitable treatment instead, there wouldn't be such a big problem huh.

I don't think you understand auties or you would know that people with autism do get married, do have children etc..

There is more to life than social skills and from what I've seen all of these manipulative jerks who use their social skills to con people are appreciated more than those who tell the truth but just aren't as charming as the con artist.