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Toucan
Toucan

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Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Age: 50
Gender: Male
Posts: 276

19 Sep 2009, 3:14 am

Inventor wrote:
US law was broken in the US, it is a public conveyance, like the mail, and if he mailed antrax from England, he would still be commiting the crime in the US.
(1) That would be clearly something else completely. (2) He should still be tried in the UK. For the concept of nation state to have any meaning if must mean at least that "we take care of our own", both defending "our own" against harm and punish "our own" when they commit a crime.

This principle is internationally accepted. e.g. the International Criminal Court is controlled by this principle.
Inventor wrote:
Shipping drugs from South America, is a crime in the US, and ask the Ochoas what happens.
That whole USA war on drugs fiasco is another example of the USA exporting there particular set of laws beyond their borders.
Inventor wrote:
Just having a Swiss bank account is a crime, for Americans who do not report it.
Well, Gary is not an American. He has no right to vote in the USA Elections for the legislature, he had no representation in this legislature. He does in the UK.
Inventor wrote:
The whole idea of INTERPOL is going after people who live in one country and commit crimes in another.
True. But only if what they did is a crime in the place where they did it. Interpol is not going to prosecute some dutch guy for smoking pot while he is in The Netherlands just because it's against the law to do so in another country.
Inventor wrote:
Using the mails, phone, or Internet to commit crimes has a long history of prosocution.
Examples please.
Inventor wrote:
Your defense is like standing in France and throwing rocks at people in Belgium.
I don't get this comparison.
Inventor wrote:
Your defense would allow cyber attacks from anywhere to be a local matter.
Indeed. As it should be if the concept of "nation-states" and "borders" still have any meaning. That is, that we do not live in a Pax Americana where "local" laws are irrelevant if the USA wants them to be irrelevant.
Inventor wrote:
Pirates work in International Waters, they still get hunted down and hung.
Ships sailing the high seas are generally under the jurisdiction of the flag state; however, when a ship is involved in certain criminal acts, such as piracy, any nation can exercise jurisdiction under the doctrine of hostis humani generis.

But again, the ship needs to have be physically present when piracy took place to be "hunted down and hung".

It's a very simple principle of locality and nationality: You can only be prosecuted if you break the law of the land where you are in OR break the law of the nation you belong to. You can not be prosecuted for any action which is legal in the land and legal in your own nation.



Inventor
Veteran
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Location: New Orleans

19 Sep 2009, 3:25 pm

The usual basis of extradition is, if the act is also illegal in the country where it occured.

Breaking into the computers of the British Government is equally illegal, but the act was not against them, so except the silly stuff about no death sentence, which is local protection, the guilty are sent to where they commited the crime.

Hence, you cannot be extradited from the Grand Caymans for tax evasion, for they have no tax laws. For murder, you will be on the next plane.

There is no doubt that the computers involved were in the US, so that is where the crime occured.

You do not have to be present to commit a crime, only be the cause of it.

England has laws about counterfiting, their own money, so if you counterfit American money, it might not be an English crime, but even if you passed it in Europe, it would still be a crime against America.

He cannot be tried in Britian because he did nothing there, also, they have no idea where he went, what he looked at, and what he downloaded, or planted, only the people running the American Security that caught him know. His entire path through is known, computers leave a trail, and it lead back to him.

He says UFO, but another word is antigravity, lots of countries would like to know how we do that.

Where he went, what search terms he used, will tell as much of the story as we will let out. What he saw will not even be told to the judge.