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fidelis
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23 Jan 2010, 1:45 am

I know autism isn't a good thing for everyone. I know that a cure would help those who wanted it. But what about the rest of us. It would be forced down every preadolescence who showed any autistic trait. Parents, in their desperation and ignorance "cure" and replace us with the child they were "supposed" to have. I know it's drastic and cruel to say that, but just can't ignore it. A cure can't be allowed until everyone understands it the way we do. Then it will be the best thing ever. The people who want it will have it and the rest of us wont have to worry. until then don't panic, but don't stop worrying. It is possible for them to rewire us eventually, and if that moment comes to soon, despite how for humanity has come, we will be eradicated.


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ruennsheng
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23 Jan 2010, 3:06 am

Rewiring us to NT standards? Sounds like genetic engineering. But if the NTs are happy with it... Sad thing for them, the world would be less exciting!


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23 Jan 2010, 7:28 am

fidelis wrote:
I know autism isn't a good thing for everyone. I know that a cure would help those who wanted it. But what about the rest of us. It would be forced down every preadolescence who showed any autistic trait. Parents, in their desperation and ignorance "cure" and replace us with the child they were "supposed" to have. I know it's drastic and cruel to say that, but just can't ignore it. A cure can't be allowed until everyone understands it the way we do. Then it will be the best thing ever. The people who want it will have it and the rest of us wont have to worry. until then don't panic, but don't stop worrying. It is possible for them to rewire us eventually, and if that moment comes to soon, despite how for humanity has come, we will be eradicated.

It is quite unlikely any cure besides the genetic-research-based one is gonna ever happen. What I think is that they could maybe release drugs that prevent seizures if they didn't already.

Real autism I don't think is going to be curable beyond genetic screening. And that gives me the creeps. Since who can predict whether the gene would mean the guy will suffer for the rest of his life or give him the different point of view that was so helpful in guys like Einstein?


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23 Jan 2010, 7:35 am

lucy1 wrote:
I suppose it depends what you mean by 'cured".


Exactly, I've seen a 'cure' advertised that is basically just self awareness and social and interpersonal skills training which isn't very sinister at all. It's literally impossible to retroactively not have autism so the arguments about 'curing' people who have alrady been born is moot.

Now when it comes to people who haven't yet been born then yes there's something worth talking about but it's not just autism there's a myriad of conditions that parents would prefer their kids not to suffer from. The discussion might be more about eugenics/family planning in general not just autism. If I were to have kids I'd want them to have a better life than me.


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ruennsheng
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23 Jan 2010, 8:29 am

If this means less neurodiversity in ASD... A better life is inevitable.


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24 Jan 2010, 2:26 am

I was "Cured", by Wrong Planet.

For sixty years I though other people were different, and they had my sympathy. Education made me aware that I am the different one, down to my slip on shoes.

No one could tell me how they saw me as different, and I do not spy on them to the point where I could find out how they are different.

While there is still a lot I do not understand, I now can see their Bee Dance, their face and eye signaling, I still do not know the meaning, but now think they are trying.

While it explains so much of my life, I still cannot Bee Dance, but at least I know.

Some things go under the Big A, others under the Bees.

Perhaps if I was younger when I learned all this I could have taken over the world or something, but being me, I would not want it.

How I think will never change, but I can learn to relate to others better.

As my Grandmother said, "You may "have" to kill someone, but you never "have" to be rude."

So through Wrong Planet I am learning I have been unintentionally rude. Not that it would change anything with the people who took offense, and I have found that insulting them also works.

I lack Species Pride, Team Spirit, and do not have a common culture of watching sports on television.

We may never get along, but at least I know why.

I hear the same from the Broader Autism Phenotype, Geeks, we relate, but they also lack understanding of hairless ground ape social behavior. General Autistic behavior is labeled Geek, Nerd, by the majority,

So I see a personal Cure, becoming aware.

I see a social Cure, two part, us not talking tech, them trying to not talk sports and tv, but we remind them of being in school, without the fun social stuff.

As for a phyical cure, it would be easier to make them autistic than us NT.

By the latest count autism is in twenty-two genes, and a different set for girls. There is no marker for LFA, AS, HFA, BAP, and the same genes are found in NTs. The question of why some turn on or off is beyond science. Genocide might as well be done at random.

It is like those who believed in abortion, they selected their line out of the world, now there are less followers. Wanting abortion was genetic.

The connection of autism and technology is the same, since we were released from the mental hospitals in 1974, technology has bloomed, and calls for even geekier people to keep up with the doubling of knowledge that happens ever quicker. A good deal of the money made in IT was by our group.

An Internet based Information Age is all ours. We are the producers and consumers of tech.

The NT world of social groups in manufacturing, office work, and government, have not been doing well. One in five is unemployed, and their jobs gone forever. Of the employed, more than half work for governement of some kind, and tax income is down at least 10%, with more demand to spend on unemployment and food stamps.

Dow 10,000 in 1999, and now again, with the dollar buying half as much gas and food. The national debt has reached unsupportable levels, and taxes will have to go up. All of the special government retirement and health care, all of the pensions of unions, were invested in the market, and are gone. All of the people who bought bigger and bigger houses for the tax deduction, still own them.

The Social Model is not working like it used to.

Autism Speaks is a very social model, and without them to spotlight our 1% of the population we would have never learned many things. While they know we are different, when they try to define it, they have to define how mindless social behavior works. All of the spouse groups have the same problem, we are logical, and they have a right to demand that we become as irrational and emotional as they are.

Most of their models of ideal behavior come from television and movies, ours come from a life of overcoming life's problems, staying focused, and getting the job done, someday. They wanted everything now on credit, we want to save money. They want a lifestyle, we want a life.

Everytime it comes up on Wrong Planet, The Myers Briggs test, we are almost all INTJ, ENTJ, INTP, ENTP, which adds up to as many people who are now called autistic. When the test came out, we were called very useful and focused people. During WWII we were in high demand.

The democratic view of majority rule cannot be applied to mental types, we need them all, and the idea that everyone is equal, can only be seen as equal to the majority. We know that half the population has a IQ of less than a hundred.

Some very bad choices have been made, socially, in economics to go with that, and in politics, which has led us into wars we cannot quit because of the jobs that would be lost. That is no reason to fight a war. While the largest defaults in real estate are commercial, the chamber of commerce leaders, and in jumbo mortgages, homes over $750,000, they tried to blame it on the minorities that they sold loans to.

The recent rise of Psychology, and drug companies, was blaming it on mental minorities. They seek to turn 49% into customers.

So I love to hear them define their positions, and I believe in Freedom of Speech. Obama tells the banks they will have to pay for the mess they made, they say screw you, you will be gone, we will buy the next guy. Clinton tells the Chinese that they cannot restrict the internet, and they say screw you, go home and watch porn. No, we are not buying any more bonds, and it is time to make your dollars worth what you promissed. You cannot run your own country, how dare you tell us how to run ours, which is the second largest economy and fastest growing. We hold two trillion of your debt, you pay us $400 Billion a year, or else.

All the Kennedy's who died for your sins cannot hold a Senate seat after fifty years, in a Democratic State. Barney Frank knows he is next.

I want to hear them all define why everyone is broke and in debt, they can speak at the People's Tribunal. Heads are going to roll, and not just in government.



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24 Jan 2010, 4:46 am

natedog714 wrote:
When people talk about curing autism, they aren't talking about curing us. They're talking about curing the lowest-functioning of the low-functioning, who engage in self-injurious behaviors and can't even talk. The autistic people who feel trapped in their own bodies. The ones who end up having to go to group homes because they weren't given a fair chance at life. If you don't want these people to have a chance at a decent life because "the cure will erdicate us!! !!!111", then you are very selfish people. Don't get me wrong, I was diagnosed with AS when I was 4, and it's been no joyride. But still, you guys have it better off than you think you do. Get real, support a cure for low-functioning autism.


Well said! And even if somebody is higher on the spectrum, they might get sick and tired of people overlooking all the good in them because of their inescapable difference!



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24 Jan 2010, 2:16 pm

ruennsheng wrote:
And no matter what Autism Speaks had done, as long as they keep doing the research, we should... appreciate it? They are still helping us to know more about ourselves, don't they? It's just like us cheering for our brother who, against our wills, entered a singing competition when we want to be singers more strongly...


What (if any) they do to help us "know more about ourselves" is dwarfed by their eugenic philosophy and negative advertising.

And I don't know how that singing brother metaphor can be applied to Autism Speaks.



gramirez
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24 Jan 2010, 5:51 pm

I personally don't think a cure will ever be possible. I don't believe autism is something that can be changed or altered, but possibly preventable. While autism is a spectrum, and some folks are a lot better off than others, I think it's important to remember acceptance. The problem is not that autism needs a cure, but rather, it needs an understanding. Although some may find the following statements offensive, it is not my intent. Autism today, is was homosexuality was 60 years ago. Everyone thought it was a disease that needed to be cured. Of course, we know better now, and society is generally accepting of homosexuals. This is what needs to happen with autism. There needs to be education, there needs to be an understanding. Just because people with autism have some differences, that does not make them diseased or defective.

I think a lot of this education needs to take place with the parents of autistic children, who think that their child is damaged goods. The kind of parents who only see their children as burdens. They need to accept and love their children for who they ARE, and not what they COULD be. I think instead of trying to fund research for cure, we should be funding education.

Another thing about cure: Autism does not kill people. Science needs to cure cancer and other fatal diseases long before they cure something that never killed those who had/have it.


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01 Feb 2010, 10:58 pm

I don't want to be cured, yes the Extremely low functioning people should get help, but being an aspie giving a new perspective on life. instead of seeing what everyone else sees, I can see and understand in different ways. how can there be difference when everyone's the same?


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01 Feb 2010, 11:37 pm

What can be different, can be beautiful.


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02 Feb 2010, 10:14 am

buryuntime wrote:
I think it's more common for them to deny that HFA even really exists, or isn't "real" autism.


Bingo. All while they use the statistics for ALL ASD while claiming the "increase" in autism the severe type, while the number of people with severe autism has remained stagnant at .5 in 1000 individuals ( 1 in 2000). The reality is MOST of the people in the 1 in 126 (or whatever the number is) fall into the high-functioning category, and mostly PDD-NOS.

There is the stastical misrepresentation, but there is also the fact they have no individuals on thier boards with ASD and no individuals in thier employment. This is considered a major problem with disability advocacy. NO other disability advocacy has such a circumstance.

The pro-cure thing is also a problem, as somebody stated alot of thier work is to find the individual genetic traits for screening. As far as they know there is no way to tell the difference between the various autism spectrum disorders, or even BAP genetically. So yes, there is a reason why we have a problem. The truth is this could very well wipe out some of the most brilliant future minds. I will tell you this, I met a psychologist who has been working on Autism and ASD for decades, he said that certian human advancements would have never happened without people with ASD, and he named a few he knew first hand.

We definately do understand the issue, and honestly, we have every right to be upset. These organizations deserve the level of hostility from our community, it is well earned.

The fact is I am all for treatment. I had extensive occupational therapy when I was a kid, it helped significantly. I also had extensive psychological therapy as an adult, which helped a great deal. I am even okay with drug therapies, the funny thing is tweaking my hormone regiment (I have an intersex syndrome) seemed to help some of my symptoms from my ASD.

What I don't like is misrepresentation and the discriminatory practices of these organizations. The cure issue is problematic, but I don't think it would be nearly the same issue is if they were saying they were looking for new treatments. Autism is not cancer, it usually doesn't kill people. It is more akin to a perception disability (being blind or deaf) than a deadly disease.



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02 Feb 2010, 11:27 am

The common mistake is to assume that genes are either on/off or even dominant/recessive. Or even that genes are singular in usage for traits.

Turning off or substituting the genes that cause autism may break something else critical to human life and cognition.

Hair, eye and skin color are good examples. When you disallow those genes to express, you get albinism.


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02 Feb 2010, 11:28 pm

natedog714 wrote:
When people talk about curing autism, they aren't talking about curing us.

Image


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Sparx139
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06 Feb 2010, 4:17 am

Has anyone here seen X-Men 3? This whole topic seems a bit like that entire film.

The problem is it's pervasive. "Curing" the disorder means changing the person's very identity. I mean, I'm all for treating the symptoms, but I like me too much to be "cured".



lucy1
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07 Feb 2010, 11:22 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
What can be different, can be beautiful.


Yeah... but each to their own. Everyone should have the option of deciding what they want for themselves, without undercurrents from anti cure and pro cure movements.

None of us are born perfect.... seeking to find better individual ways of coping is always worthwhile.