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neoFoucault
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27 Jan 2011, 4:36 pm

People here are a waste of time

you disagree with them and they call you mentally ill

no chance of a real conversation

mods delete thread please



Last edited by neoFoucault on 27 Jan 2011, 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Delirium
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27 Jan 2011, 5:22 pm

neoFoucault wrote:
tl;dr


To quote the Talking Heads, "You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything." You aren't convincing anyone but yourself, but hey, it's probably a lot easier for you to assume that anyone who disagrees with you is somehow brainwashed by society.


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ci
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27 Jan 2011, 5:59 pm

I am not taking offense neo like you. I didn't take offense when you said I was closed minded. I didn't take offense when I said my brain was poop. The idea of taking offense to win autism arguments amongst people with autism is not even offensive to me but is not productive.

What you say can be summed up to simple complexities but cannot be demanded to be to complex in conclusion. The agenda is clear. Make people feel dumb, say they cannot understand and feel superior by being wordy and long and concluding for your own self-merit somehow you won the conversation. This was achieved by having a one ended discourse for the most part because you refused to write in a length that was reasonable.


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Delirium
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27 Jan 2011, 6:06 pm

ci wrote:
I am not taking offense neo like you. I didn't take offense when you said I was closed minded. I didn't take offense when I said my brain was poop. The idea of taking offense to win autism arguments amongst people with autism is not even offensive to me but is not productive.

What you say can be summed up to simple complexities but cannot be demanded to be to complex in conclusion. The agenda is clear. Make people feel dumb, say they cannot understand and feel superior by being wordy and long and concluding for your own self-merit somehow you won the conversation. This was achieved by having a one ended discourse for the most part because you refused to write in a length that was reasonable.


Image


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neoFoucault
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27 Jan 2011, 7:00 pm

People here are a waste of time

you disagree with them and they call you mentally ill

no chance of a real conversation

mods delete thread please



Last edited by neoFoucault on 27 Jan 2011, 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ci
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27 Jan 2011, 7:20 pm

This conversion is down right ridiculous and that's why I never treated it seriously. Open up your brain get out the soap that you perceive is there and then begin to think for yourself or have you already done this and it's got soap in their again? You are Eastern vs Western thought but not Eastern meets Western just one is superior over the other to you plus the brain wiring typological propaganda. 

I advise you read Jayata Shayata. You will see the full mirror of your mind but unlike most others you have seen part of your own reflection onto that of all else. Yes I've studied Eastern and Western as part of my self-education. I am well versed in the essential frameworks but you go to far with it as well as other things. I think I might call what you say in part as an autism cult in the making that is what you say of other things is brainwashing. 

Jimenez crickets Mr. Brainwashes and Soap Remover.. 

If you really want me to pick apart what you say you won't be happy but it might do you some good.


http://www.zen-deshimaru.com/EN/practic ... hayata.htm

"The twentieth patriarch was the Venerable Jayata. Once, the nineteenth patriarch said, "Although you already have faith in the karma of the three times, still, you have not yet clarified the fact that karma is produced from delusion, delusion exists as a result of consciousness, consciousness results from ignorance, and ignorance results from mind. Mind is originally pure, without origination or cessation, without doing or effort, without karmic retribution, without superiority or inferiority, very still, and very intelligent. If you accept this teaching, you will become the same as all the Buddhas. All good and evil, conditioned and unconditioned, are like dreams and fantasies." Hearing this, the master. grasped the deep meaning of these words and aroused the wisdom he had possessed since time immemorial. "


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Last edited by ci on 27 Jan 2011, 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Delirium
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27 Jan 2011, 7:26 pm

neoFoucault wrote:
Do you really expect me to believe that you spontaneously, all by yourself, came up with ideas which are also dominant in American culture and widely disseminated in the media?


And do you really think your beliefs developed in a vacuum? Uh, have you heard of postmodernism, the anti-psychiatry movement and identity politics?

See, I can play this game too!

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PS: talking briefly, like in small-talk, is an NT trick. Many autistic people who have not been broken-in as NT-imitators talk at length and in depth, precisely and literally. The unacceptability of this communicative style is itself part of the oppression of autistic people, not to mention the dumbing-down of public discourse. “tl;dr” does not belong on autism websites. You want short and pithy, go to 4chan, the quality of the discussion will be right up your street.


1. Okay, you have to be f*****g sh*****g me. Plenty of NTs write really, really long articles and papers. Talking at length about something is not just an autistic thing.
2. Did you even read other people's posts telling you that you're too long-winded? Or are we just wannabe NTs?
3. There is a middle ground between being too short and not giving enough information and rambling on to the point where everyone has stopped caring.
4. You are taking this argument way too seriously. It's an argument on an Internet message board, not a meeting of the Oxford debate society.


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ci
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27 Jan 2011, 8:14 pm

Can you please explain the vacuum remark to me?


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Delirium
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27 Jan 2011, 8:29 pm

ci wrote:
Can you please explain the vacuum remark to me?


His beliefs are just as influenced by society and other people as mine are.


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neoFoucault
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27 Jan 2011, 8:47 pm

People here are a waste of time

you disagree with them and they call you mentally ill

no chance of a real conversation

mods delete thread please



Last edited by neoFoucault on 27 Jan 2011, 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ci
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27 Jan 2011, 9:00 pm

Mr. grasshopper I would like to advise you that your assumptions prevent rational appeal because you have prevented debate by being rigidly assumptive collectively and invest into the assumption others are the estranged ones with shared illusions. I'd like to protest your rationalism due to the fact you do not believe in compromise. My effort is simply without any sort of delusion I can change your mind. In the beginning of your book as posts here I said you would not succeed to manifest you intentions into the shared reality and change that which you sought due to methodology in so many words. Indeed you prevent this by defeating yourself and failing to compromise. It's as if you hold your own rule book and the book dictates another person must comply or else they are not open minded and when in fact these two circles one being yourself and the other the collective outside of you is mutually absent of open mindedness in your subjective framework I'd like to assert as an observer to this.

I wish you luck.

Nathan Young


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Delirium
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27 Jan 2011, 9:10 pm

Quote:
If you think you're a rational subject who consciously decides all your actions and is fully responsible to the same degree as an NT person (or if you pretend to think this for PR effect) – and don't admit that you are (or could be) sometimes overwhelmed by emotions, sensory input and other stimuli outside your conscious control, to the point where you're not acting rationally – then you're pretending to yourself that you're NT. Or more accurately, you're pretending to be what NT people imagine themselves to be.


I never claimed to be a solely rational person.

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When did I say it was JUST an autistic thing?


"PS: talking briefly, like in small-talk, is an NT trick. Many autistic people who have not been broken-in as NT-imitators talk at length and in depth, precisely and literally. The unacceptability of this communicative style is itself part of the oppression of autistic people, not to mention the dumbing-down of public discourse. “tl;dr” does not belong on autism websites. You want short and pithy, go to 4chan, the quality of the discussion will be right up your street. "

Your words, not mine.

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The middle of the road is for people who like getting run over. If I'm going to do something, I do it properly.


That's nice. I hope you enjoy people tuning you out for the rest of your life because you're too long-winded. :)

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No, I'm taking it just as seriously as life-and-death issues of the future of humanity should be taken. I don't do small-talk, at least not with online strangers, and if I want humour, I go to a joke site, not a discussion forum.


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I don't consider the fact that some people here condone the act of sending other autistic people into conditions likely to amount to torture to be either trivial or funny. The fact that you treat it as something trivial is itself part of what I find objectionable.


Waterboarding. Pulling people's nails out. Painful electric shocks. Pissing someone off on a message board. One of these things does not belong here.


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neoFoucault
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27 Jan 2011, 10:22 pm

People here are a waste of time

you disagree with them and they call you mentally ill

no chance of a real conversation

mods delete thread please



Last edited by neoFoucault on 27 Jan 2011, 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ci
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27 Jan 2011, 10:32 pm

Self is a bias, observer is still biased, common sense as a common sphere of belief is bias and everything which holds absolute form of itself in relation to another which ends up being subjective many times and holds no absolute truth nearly all the time cannot be concluded rigidly. I think your bias is this conversation is political and not scientific. You still yet assume you yourself know the truth and in doing so everyone else is inferior.

This conversation is like X + X = Y when Y = ? + ? unless ? is certain and me and others are Y. I hope this makes sense but it just means what I said above. I do have some other things I can go into with you to attempt to change your mind from being what some might call an extreme narcissistic personality disorder type least in similarity. Yet I will conclude this as simply akin to your the guy we have to agree with to make you happy. I seem like this sometimes but only when 1 + 1 = 2 and people say otherwise on very important subjects. This one started out as rigidly political against another macro ideological frame. You are by far set in your ways and to me this conversation is not about science but ideology.

I hate politics Mr. grasshopper.

Nathan Young


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27 Jan 2011, 10:55 pm

Quote:
And yet you're chiming in in defence of a repressive state apparatus the legitimacy of which is premised on your being a solely rational person, and in defence of the apologists of this system whose apologia rest on the claim that autistic people are solely rational people. You need to pay more attention to the presuppositions behind the things you claim.


I don't feel the need to analyze everything I say in the way that you do. I do not subscribe to postmodernism.

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I get silenced a lot by closed-minded people and authoritarians, but this happens whether I'm long-winded or not. I know from experience that if I keep it brief, they pounce on holes in my argument which wouldn't be there if I'd set it out at length. In fact you will see from this discussion that I've been pounced on for brevity as well as length – for instance, for failing to qualify the autistic/NT distinction and to properly theorise the relationship between the NT category and the dominant system (the idea of an NT perspective imposed through the system was, of course, a simplification which conserved space).

However, there are other circles in which my perspective is well-received. Not always circles of people who agree with me, but of people who appreciate the strength of an argument when they see it. I have also published works which have passed multiple peer-review. You should not presume to speak for the whole of humanity in your own preference for superficiality over substance.


Good for you. However, generally speaking people on the Internet are not like that. Welcome to the Internet.

Quote:
Twisting my words again. Did I actually say that anyone was torturing me by posting things which condone torture?

Here's a better comparison: Messages on message boards condoning waterboarding. Messages on message boards condoning pulling nails out. Messages on message boards condoning tasering people (as “painful electric shocks” are now known in the US prison-industrial complex). Messages on message boards condoning the imprisonment of people in conditions likely to produce permanent sensory overload (cf http://www.suite101.com/content/music-a ... nt-a170369 and http://progressivehistorians.wordpress. ... -overload/ and http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-enhance ... gation.htm ). “The use of sensory deprivation and overload constitutes torture, is outlawed by international treaties and agreements, and illegal under U.S. law” (unless the victim is autistic, and the overload is caused by normal prison conditions or policing practices). Is there really an odd one out?


Actually, I wasn't condoning waterboarding, tasering, or pulling people's nails out. I was making a sarcastic comment about this:
"I don't consider the fact that some people here condone the act of sending other autistic people into conditions likely to amount to torture to be either trivial or funny. The fact that you treat it as something trivial is itself part of what I find objectionable."

Nobody in the thread was condoning torture. I thought you were comparing being an as*hole on the Internet to torture. I misunderstood you, and you misunderstood me. We were both wrong, okay?


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neoFoucault
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27 Jan 2011, 11:35 pm

Latest gems of wisdom from "Ci": disagreeing with dominant norms = mental illness. Exactly the same as the Soviets putting dissidents in mental asylums. And proving my point about these bogus categories. In addition, everything is bias, except his own position, which is science. (Ci, by the way, is far too indirect and metaphorical in his discourse to be autistic).

Latest gem from Delirium: I don't need to question what I think because I don't hold an ideology which says I have to question what I think. No doubt I'm also closed-minded for thinking people should question what they think.

Since we're now in the world of virtual pseudodiagnosis as means of silencing, I now pass sentence on you all as Authoritarian Personalities and therefore not worth arguing with.

Thank you for confirming my suspicions as to what a waste of time, and hotbed of hatred and prejudice, autistic-liberalism is. It doesn't make up for the time and energy I've wasted on your sorry attempts at denial, but at least you've shown me that (supposedly) autistic people can be just as stupid and vile as anyone else. Go back to your mutual masturbation, goodbye.

(PS I've stayed civil so far in spite of your endless abuse, but nobody's perfect and there's only so much of this I can take, so if your intent was to make me reciprocate your aggression then well done.)