Arrogance is not a need and other refuges in audacity

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No not really. I bet everyone who disagrees with you though gets a load of presumptuous tripe though.
dumped on them though.


Wow. I never knew... that you didn't remember that I actually corrected your definition of evolution for you.


Errr no. I am not trying to tell you how evolution works. What I am telling you is that you aren't evolution. You're a nobody who somehow equated being a dickhead as the same as furthering natural selection. I can only chuckle that this sentiment has again and again got crushed under the tires of people who actually take contol of their environment rather than respond to its demands passively like chimpanzees who cannot even imagine planting a single seed to make a fruit-bearing tree, never mind improve themselves or their environment.

Natural agression and mistrust are the bane of Human existence because we aren't bashing sticks to break open nuts, we're trading oil to run cars and steel to build ships. These efforts require the work of hundreds and today many of us have gone beyond simple need like any animal, but want. The fact is Humans are in most places less 'fit' than they were hundreds of thousands of years ago, physically and mentally, but as long as they're living fine then it doesn't bloody matter. Hell, even their relatives, like Homo Erectus, were better runners and neanderthals could kick a Human off his arse and as an individual was probably a faster thinker. But they were outclassed by a people capable of greater organisation and who could utilize each other to further their own goals.

And this is the major point! Most of this natural selection stuff isn't natural selection when it comes to Humans. It's just social deception of what random, unproven characteristics people think are good.

What does evolution and the weak dying out have to do with supremacist thinking? Darwin's Theory of Evolution and the (sometimes) extremist actions and ideas of supremacists are completely different things.

And how do I play nice with people working at McDonald's? How do I even play while flipping burgers or manning the registers?!

That's a really good point burrt.... , I get where you are coming from now.

Most of us get the image of natural selection from the tree branching and the ascent of man images on the biology class walls . This sticks with us . It's only a partial expression . The more complex picture, if you chosse to accept it comes down to maths and particularly alogrithm .

Rather than thinking of an ever branching tree or a seies of steps, the way most evolutionary scientists approach this is to think of life being a huge organic computer running a very basic programme. The question life asks itself is do I aggress? yes or no.

Now just as your computer programmes can be respresented in binary code and it can make amazingly complex shapes and do incredible stuff so life rises in complexity, it the same patterns represnted over and over again until they form intricate myriad patterns -what started out as an avoidence agression dance between protoza evolves into into the same dance between nations pointing nuclear warheads at each other but out of necessity they are doing trade at the same time .

One complex to arise out of non agression is altruism.

Deception is a strategy , yet another product of this amazingly big set of organic number curnchings - sometimes deception is altruistic , others it is agressive, importantly deception is created from the billionxbillionxtrillion evolutionary outcomes played between these two responses over the course of life on this planet. - It's a "behaviorplex"

There is a game called the prisoners dilemma which condenses all this down, I think you may even be able to play it online.

And how do I play nice with people working at McDonald's? How do I even play while flipping burgers or manning the registers?![/quote]

How long have you been there ? Respect , it is one of the socially harshest , most impersonal workplaces in the Western Hemisphere. You survive thta you'll survive most things.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... in-of-life

Yes I understand. I was just saying that when it comes to Humans the power of reciprocation is more important to the species than deception and pushing down those who aren't as capable because they can still be useful to the best and brightest.

Good point , very good point but don't forget this is a multilevel game, some will be playing to get one over,
push the next man down, other will not be agressing for a variety of reasons. How they justify their altruism may be a product of degrees of self deception or condescening behaviours- it may also be a product of genuine understanding of life bourne and learned out of hardship , hardship thas been overcome. That is the sort of honesty I would have like to have had more time to find in myself and others. It's there, if you look for it.

I think understanding things in this complex multilevel way will give us the opportunity to see the full range of behaviors for what they are, -maybe that's the moment the emperor realizes he isn't wearing any clothes and decides he doesn't care that he's naked and stops trying to BS everyone else he's dressed in finery.

This is such an interesting subject . I am glad you want to discuss it.


BTw- Gedrene- is that like frameshifting edr you got going on in your name , ie gene +edr, that's really cool if it is,

I know. I am just focusing on one subject in my discussion.


Interesting subjects are always worth discussing.


Well actually it was a word I made up to replace Asperger's. Because if the fact is that those who are really 'high-functioning' are just different then it would be good to have an identity unrelated to any taint of a syndrome or being a component of autism. I have already seen that people sit on their bums and are held back by the belief that they have some sort of syndrome more than any actual disabilities they may have.

[. I have already seen that people sit on their bums and are held back by the belief that they have some sort of syndrome more than any actual disabilities they may have.[/quote]

Sorry I can't resist this, my kids used to claim this was a generic trait of all teenagers.

I once lost my temper and yelled the house looked like they'd held the godamn ADHD annual conference in it whilst I'd been away. That was not so cool perhaps but you should have seen the mess.


Anyway my dog's telling me its time for me to go to bed and its going to start nagging me to turn off the computer.

Night.

Well as long as you have a good relationship with your kids in general then it doesn't matter. AYe. Hope you find the word Gedrene fascinating enough to us it! Good night.

Presumptuous tripe, as in the presumption that I'm a Nazi or a racist?


Considering I never defined evolution, nor did you, I find this statement amusing. Or were you meaning to imply that I don't understand how gene mutation and natural selection works? I see nothing in my original comment that would suggest such a thing. So, which part of my "definition" of evolution did you correct?


You were trying to tell me how evolution works, and you were making an irrelevant point that if anything helped my argument.


Of course I'm not evolution, silly, I'm a homo sapien.


a) We're both nobodies, what's your point?
b) In our brief exchange you have called me a psychopath, a neo-Nazi, a racist, moronic, evil, a nobody, and a dickhead. By my standards someone that insults someone multiple times, especially when they don't even know the other person or their actual stance (see below), is a 'dickhead'.


This has absolutely nothing to do with anything. And just to show why it's so hilariously wrong, take a look at the Roman empire. They were almost constantly at war, yet they were the most technologically advanced civilization in the world. Never mind that though, because as I said earlier, you don't even know my actual stance. Yet you assumed that I want to wage war on NT's and exterminate them, or some other presumptuous tripe. I will admit that my chimpanzee example was misleading, but it was only to disprove your notion that social discord always negatively affects a species. However, that was after your initial response, in which you labelled me a Nazi.

My stance is for a homogenous society, nothing more. I am against the idea that neuro-diversity is somehow beneficial to us. We are not compatible with NT society and we do not mix well, that's why there are so many people that come to this board and vent about NT's or ask about how to properly interact with NT's. Furthermore, it has been shown that homogenous populations are happier than diverse ones. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43287918/ns ... _business/

Now, since you stated in your original post that you believe the word autism should be dropped completely, I'm going to assume that you support neuro-diversity and that you think we should all conform to NT society. Whether you want to forget about autism and live peacefully with NT's is immaterial, however, as there is a group of people that is quite literally out to exterminate us, and they aren't going to just drop the autism label. That group is mothers of autistic children. Case in point:



So, as I said, what you think of NT's is immaterial, because there is nothing in the world that could convince the mother of an autistic child to not cure their child. Thus living peacefully with NT's as a neuro-diverse society will inevitably lead to our extinction, even if you think we have some role to play in society.

You can't presume what is evident



...Meanwhile in earlier posts


Yup, never defined it at all.


Maybe in your head I was.


Meanwhile, in an earlier post

Evolution doesn't work like that dumbass. It isn't about the strongest surviving, it's about whoever survives to breed. Evolution is a concept. It doesn't have a motive and you can't presume I would be going against evolution by letting people survive!

Mostly all of it, though not by choice.




No, I was telling you not to be a eugenics obsessed monster.
Because you said so? I can see your critical faculties are fully geared to making worthless jibes that prove nothing.


Well stop acting like you can interpret evolution's whims. Or maybe you have a problem understanding metaphor?

a) everything
b) Well that's because you are a nobody. You just said so yourself. You have somehow interpreted evolution as a grand scheme rather than a natural process, so that does make you a racist Neo-Nazi, evil and moronic. Given the amount of sarcasm you like to employ you're probably the last one too. As for psychopath, it's a work in progress.


This sounds like a cliched motivation of a comic book villain. *puts on faux german accent* Only when you reshape the world in your image will all pain and suffering end. No longer shall we suffer the deprevations of the interior NT race. Our ubermensch shall destroy the unclean in the purging fires of absolution. As for homogenity, I tell you boy, North Korea is alot more homogenous than the USA, but you'd be a fool to believe numero uno would be happier.


No I bloody didn't. In fact I hate the word autism because it implies I am inferior to someone. Autism was originally a word to describe narcissistic tendencies in schizophrenia and even without that knowledge it imples some inability to work together or self-obsession, which I think is complete arse. I even hate the word NT. It's so kitsch. I made the word Gedrene up as a neutral identity for what I am, so that noone would impose their own thoughts on what it might mean and thus somehow make us seem inferior.

Immaterial? Most thoughts don't have physical substance Burzum. As for irrelevant, I think that's an absurd and twisted notion to imagine conflict as the only answer
[/quote="Burzum"] however, as there is a group of people that is quite literally out to exterminate us, and they aren't going to just drop the autism label.[/quote]
I don't care what group wants to call me autistic. I will fight tooth and nail for my own identity and no one is going to steal it away from me no matter the pain I must endure to fight for it!
[/quote="Burzum"]That group is mothers of autistic children. Case in point:

[/quote]
I know some of them. They are indeed deluded and monstrous. I have railed against these particular women. Conditions change though. We are not chimpanzees. We are people. Our outlooks change. Maybe ours alot faster than NTs but still we change outlooks. One day people will castigate this behavoir and there will be no excuse for this monstrosity.


I don't think we have some specific role to play in society. We are going to be a society no matter what we want to do. We will always be different from others until death. Next, I think you really are being silly, thinking that somehow you can typecast people together in groups as having the same beliefs all the time!. You forget that we are individuals! Each of us has our own beliefs! People could easily typecast us together as homogenous and it is really so absurd to do so given what I am doing right now! And how shameful that you talk down to NTs when you display one of their worst characteristics! Lumping groups of people together when it makes no sense. You forget that my mother is an NT and she loves me with all her heart and I love her as a mother and son should. We care and speak and are close. I have a neighbour close by who is a.. Gedrene, yes, like me. He is close with his mother and she is NT. As it is over the world many mothers I have seen who are loved and intrigued by their.. Gedrene sons and daughters. You have seen these horror stories and expected this as the norm! I bet to some degree it exists and I intend on beating such self-righteous lack of understanding down, as I intend on beating down on any such pain-causing ignorance with no pity. But if you dare think I shall castigate humanity because of individuals who do not represent the whole of humanity then I question whether you too are ignorant or too much like particularly ignorant NTs.

So tell me, from where did you infer that I am a Nazi and a racist? Please point me to it. At this point I find your accusations absolutely hilarious.


I suggest you look up the definition of the word "define", and then think about why what I said does not "define" evolution.


Yeah, genius, and would you like to tell me how autistic people are going to survive to breed if they're being cured or aborted by their parents? Would you like to tell me how autistic people are going to breed at all when they're surrounded by NT's, with whom they cannot easily form a relationship? "Strongest" is synonymous with "most fit for the current environment", do you really think autistic people are fit to live in an NT environment? Yes, you are going against evolution (if you interpret going against evolution to mean heading towards an evolutionary dead end) if you accept that autistic people are not fit to live in NT society.


Ha. Hahahaha. Thankyou for demonstrating your own hypocrisy. Presumptuous tripe indeed. You've demonstrated my point about not understanding my stance beautifully.


If it's metaphor, would you care to explain what it means to be evolution?

Evolution's whims? Didn't you only a few paragraphs earlier state that "evolution has no motive"?
You do realize it is possible to predict how evolution will play out, right? Right? For example, I can predict that cheetahs are likely to become an evolutionary dead end due to their extremely limited gene pool that resulted from inbreeding when their population was as low as 10.


Where did I interpret evolution to be a "grand scheme"? Of course, I'm not expecting anything more than a random and irrelevant quote of mine.

Anyway, many Christians believe evolution to be the work of God, i.e. a grand scheme, does this make them evil neo-Nazis?
When you're making arguments as ridiculously silly as this, it should be no wonder that I use sarcasm.


See, you're still going along with the whole extermination thing, it's really not helping your case. Did it ever occur to you that you don't need a warmongering dictatorship to create a homogenous society, that we could all just... you know... agree to move somewhere? I'm sure that will make headlines - "Mass autistic migration puts Hitler to shame, Jews quaking in terror". A scary thought, I know.

Oh, and North Korea is a communist dictatorship. That's what's known as a variable in scientific experiments. Variables affect the outcome of the experiment. But I'm sure you wouldn't be so daft as to compare a communist dictatorship to an economically free country. Why don't you try comparing South Korea or Japan to America, and then get back to me?


Errr... That's what I just said. You want to drop the word "autism". Am I missing something?


Would you look at that, we agree on something! I don't agree that you will be able to change outlooks, however. A prenatal cure of autism will be hailed as a medical breakthrough, not a human rights violation.


It makes all the sense in the world to me. NT's are different from people with autism, just like bonobos are different from common chimpanzees. Do you object to grouping bonobos and common chimpanzees? Do you think they should be lumped together?


I thought "Gedrene" was supposed to be an individualist term? By referring to others with autism as "Gedrene", you are lumping them together in a group, and merely substituting the word "autism" with the word "Gedrene". Aren't you supposed to be against this?

I consider it thin ice when a person has as their name the word of a Noweigan black metal band whose leader is an avowed follower of neo-nazism is asking me to prove what is evident.



Erm no. You have completely confused two.. no three concepts. Lumping people together as having the same outlook, i.e, saying all NT mothers of Gedrenes hate their children is absurdity. Distinguishing things that have a factual similarity, such as the irish, pro-gun lobbyists, muslims, fish, silicon atoms or gedrenes is called identification. And you missed the point about the word autism. Its history and meaning makes it more of an insult than explanation of what we are. Here you seem to submissively given in to the word that others have bequeathed upon you whereas I advocate a word I made, a word with no connotations of inability to do this, that or the bloody other, one of independence and of similarity to each other, which we are.

Last edited by Gedrene on 18 Jul 2011, 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

Neurotypicals no matter how liberal they claim that they are, already believe in neurotypical supremacy. Since neurotypicals are in positions of power they use that power to fire the autistic worker and justify their firings claiming that they have the right to hire only the best most productive workers. The autistic worker will never have a chance under these neurotypical task masters. The neurotypical boss will give work orders to the autistic and expect that these orders be obeyed retroactively.