Is a AS Community possible?

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Great point..here here. Besides to live up in the vast expanses of the Frozen North requires a person to first out wrestle a drunk Eskimo Lady and have marital relations with a Polar Bear or something like that. Eh?

Using welfare is a valid option, for getting start up costs covered, if you have no other option and are stuck. Obviously people's with personal savings, or willing to take out large loans, or rich parents do not need to bother.

It's far better than lobbying for financial support from government, because that type of stuff is excessively complicated, it's a rather autistic solution to a complicated problem.

The main concept of the project is being able to circumvent minimum wage laws, and as a result allow us auties, to be able to achieve a cost of living far cheaper than you can get in most places in canada.

Last edited by Stoek on 26 Nov 2012, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It's a about 100 acres of land in atlantic canada. Although the climate isn't the greatest, the land is cheap, there is ample supplies of firewood, also the land surrounding mine is the cheapest you'll find in north america that is suitable for farming.



The reason it's such a great bargain is that it is on an island.

Just search Doyles, NL in google maps.

If we could develop a super low cost of living, tourism, educational, and other services for autistic could be housed there at a fraction of the cost found in other parts of canada.

This system could also be used to get potential immigrants workers visa's, through sponsorship.

I'd like to note for the record that I am not anyone else in this thread. I am seeing replies that suggest that there is confusion between my posts and those of other WP memebers.

I don't live in Canada, so I take no position on processes and locations in Canada.

As I have stated above, my position is that the key factor in an AS community is the availability of a business(es) that will use labor from the hypothetical community. Labor in the theoretical sense, for this discussion I am not making any disinction between forms and location of labor.

with the progressing climate change Greenland would be a good choice.large amounts of inexpensive land plus all the perks of danish citizenship.if one could easily become a danish citizen

Doomed by a lack of economic overview.

Everything lives off of something else. It is a matter of gaining some of that flow and turning it to your own purpose.

Employment has not been going well, honest projections say it may never return. Investments have been dead for a decade, now a teen zombie, as 1999, Dow 10,000, 13 years later we are feeling good about Dow 13,000 but the value of money has declined.

So the broad market is just looking to preserve Capital, and will settle for low Bond rates because stocks are scary. Markets tend to retest the prior lows.

Most real estate is a bad investment, property tax, utilities, repairs, and a declining market does not help.

What is left for long term security, with an if worse comes to worse edge? Land. The Fed is not printing it, it cannot be shipped to China, and just growing trees can pay the taxes.

It also produces food, and shooting Bambi's mother. Or a cow.

It is the one investment that is likely to keep up with inflation.

Investing in an AS community is madness, if not before, soon after.

Leasing them land and getting some basic management, someone there to call the fire department, keep bootleg loggers out, could work.

Long term investment in land under management is secure, and not much else is.

An AS Community does have some good points, rural with a low cost of living, it might produce something more than it consumes. That is shakey as AS varies broadly, then by age, sex, and obsessions.

We have another group that is more domesticated, have more money, is in the same age bracket, The War Babies, who are also looking to retire on the pitance they have left.

Low cost of living, low cost housing, moderate climate, without the coming hurricanes of Florida, or drug cartels of Arizona, which were cheap for the WWII generation to retire.

Community, with jobs, a social system, an economy, cannot just be built. Someone will open a shop when they see a demand, not before.

With the War Babies, land and housing, and they will drive for medical services, Walmart, and altogether hold a narrow view of self government. Retired they do not need local employment, but they do have knowledge, which could be useful.

They are stuck where they are, cannot homestead, but if some other group pulled together the Investment in a large tract of forest land, broke some up into retirement lots, it would open developing the village idea for a paying customer, and produce jobs for others.

There are trillions looking for secure investment, and over forty million War Babies facing a long retirement. They are likely to live twenty years longer than their parents.

The key to this is cheap, and a restricted community. It also has features of a European Village, dense population around a square, quickly grading to more open space, farmland, and a buffer of forest.

Long term food and energy security makes sense, so does a walking town layout, as the future will have problems, food and energy shortages, that can be avoided.

It is what I want for myself, which would only get better if I sold it to thousands first. The market potential is for thousands of villages.

It is finding a place for yourself within the natural flow of your culture, providing a needed service, and offering a product that exceeds what any of the customers ever dared hope for.

About a hundred housing units gives a population of about 200, which is about as many people as you can know. It has been shown to be a good size for social and economic reasons. Sited on 200 acres, built for post card beauty, it is life in a Park.

I have my eye on 4,000 suitable acres, where twenty villages and four market towns could be developed. No fast food, or Walmart, but an economy built by the people who live there, which with 5,000, is a market for most things.

The whole is a Corporation, the inhabitants investors, Stockholders elect Directors, who hire Management. There is not a lot to argue about.

The goal is secure living for older people who may have only Social Security, and need a place to be for forty years.

Providing a service for which there is a need has been profitable, and educational.

Small projects are doomed to be underfunded, and to consume before they can produce. Large projects with low overhead survive. Land growing trees does not need much, and timber pays the taxes. Construction comes from a second wave of investment, which covers the costs.

Stopping at any point, the investment is still sound.

Then, as part of something larger, with things learned, skills gained, something could be built for people wearing Wrong Planet T Shirts. There will be an ongoing need for services.

Why reinvent the wheel, when you can drive the wagon?

Another con: too few women, by the very nature of the thing. You'd have to make it more inclusive to bipolars and stuff too.

Wow Inventor..that is some deep stuff. Feel like I just picked up a few semester hours in several disciplines. Or maybe took a sip of cool water out of a fire hose..lol. As a old broke retired boomer living on a pittance...I am ready to move. What do you think about Panama to host this blessed event? They have nice cool mountains in the middle (good for fat red headed Irishmen who dont like much sun..then the beach bums can choose from two oceans. Rain Forests and mosquitoes for the Alfgore types.) I have read up on it quite a bit. They seem to like old gringos down there. Keeps us posted. Thanks.

You have put a lot of thought into this Inventor on how an AS community could work.

I agree with the size of the community's acreage of around 4000 acres. I also like the idea of having forests around it. That gives it an isolated and cozy feel away from the rest of the world.

I agree with having the community members being the investors. Such a community could operate successfully by relying on each other's contributions to the community without having large corporations interfere.

A warm climate suitable for year round agricultural production would be necessary in my opinion. Crops could be grown by the community year round in order to feed its people.

A community functioning as its own little world would require an effective leadership headed by an executive officer, a legislative and a judicial branch. Divisions within those areas could be divided into:

*Treasury overseeing such things as food, warehouses, laundry, and preparations of goods.
*Legal overseeing accounting and finances.

There would also need to be someone in charge of medical services.

Eight administrative offices under the jurisdiction of the executive leader could be utilized here. They would be:

*1---entertainment, video, movies, public relations, programs
*2---(Public Utilities)---drafting and engineering, sidewalks, sewage, roads, drains, wells, sanitation, safety, public service, union
*3---sawmill, bricks, soap, P.A. department, refrigeration, shoe repair
*4---(Construction)---mechanics, woodshop, transportation, machine shop, power
*5---(Businesses)---sewing factory, boat, stores, correspondence, money-making committee
*6---education, housing, child care, counseling, inspection committee
*7---(Helpers)---boat, generators, helpers, entrance to community helpers
*8---agricultural, farm, livestock, analysts, veterinary medicine, gardens, agronomy

Now---how could the 4000 acres be laid out? This is a suggestion:

*around 50 cottages to house families or individuals
*around 5 dormitories to house more people
*educational facilities
*community meeting facility
*kitchen
*special house for executive officer
*also need---animal shelter, bakery, athletic area, bathrooms, factories for building supplies such as bricks, cellar to keep produce cool in the warm climate, dining facility, garage for tractors and other vehicles needed, generator, herbal garden, laundry, medical facility with doctor(s) and infirmary and lab and pharmacy, office, computer and communications facility, saw mill, smoke house, showers, soap factory, stage for entertainment, supplies warehouse, tool house, tower, vegetable stand, general warehouse, and well.

Surrounding these facilities would be a great place for the gardens. A large playground for the children would be near the educational facilities.

It might be nice to have guest houses for guests visiting community members.

This is a suggested plan if such a community were to be built. This is a community that would mainly be self-sufficient. Such a community would require proper leadership and cooperative residents. Such a community could support itself by having its members work together for the good of the community as a whole. This community could house approximately 1000 members.

But how would it be financed? By a loan? By what??? Well...what if all members agreeing to become residents here were to donate their own worth (money, monetary, etc.) to the community. Then, the community would support all of its members. As long as a resident lives within the community---all needs will be met. Once the community becomes operative, it will support itself with minimum needs beyond its boundaries. Surplus goods from the community could be sold to the outside world for profit.

Has anything like this ever been done before? Oh yes. One example is the 19th Century attempt at Utopia in Ohio known as Zoar Village. But the community outlined in this post is of a more modern experimental idea.

Ok. Us rational types would skip a bunch of nonsense here and pick a location to legally grow and perhaps peddle a bunch of medicinal herbs (largest cash crop in the world ya know?) Everybody tends the garden a few hours a day. Otherwise sit around and Eats Twinkies..er I mean Litltle Debbie cakes and play compooter whilst sipping diet Dr. Pepper. Should make enough off the proceeds to fund everything including the soap and beanie weenies and the special tax exempt corporation whereby all the big shots can pay themselves a nice salary. Think Red Cross. I am liking the sound of this. How about Colorada? That is the most NW of the counties in Texas ya know? I would go up there more often but I have already heard all the dumb Texan jokes. Anyway its Dodge City up there in this particular market. Is there any lawyers in the house? lol.

I'd use Arcosanti as a more recent example and lesson.

http://www.arcosanti.org/

Okay, are there any ideas that don't require a few hundred people to join at the start? Perhaps if 50 people join together, they could do?

Once the seed is planted, then it will grow. Build it and they will come.

The idea for a community I outlined would not require a great number of people at first. In fact, just 50 individuals could begin the community by starting initial construction of the buildings. Month by month, or year by year, the numbers of the community would increase until it reaches its 1000 population.

Colorado is long term drought, wildfires, and not known for growing much.

Panama like Costa Rica, leave home and the gardener moves his family in, claims a Spanish Land Grant, and the Civil Action to recover takes ten years. I never felt secure down south.

Drought is spreading, and areas of regular rainfall might continue. Secure ground water is a must have.

I like east of Nashville. low population, and not that far from the major population centers.

I am looking at what service could be provided by existing, and watching over a forest is suitable work.

A village, compact for water, sewer, does not take up much land. 200 people can be self supporting on 200 acres. Farming is easy, tractors do most work, but then you have to grow machine harvested crops. Getting large field labor for hand harvest is what stops production of higher value crops. Tomatoes, Green Peppers, start in greenhouses, get put out as plants, another labor that calls for many hands. As part time work it is not bad. The climate and soil will grow most things.

Managing a forest is a full time job, wandering around in miles of woods. Local timber is mostly hardwood, a lot of Black Walnut, where a single tree is worth a lot, and has to be watched.

Land it's self is an investment, better if new trees are planted, more greenhouse and nursery, and the area is also producing some good grapes and wines. Both are a long term tax shelter. Both have the problem of seasonal labor. Twenty acres of grapes have a harvest period of a week, get them or lose them.

So a lose group of less than full time workers could fit in, and provide the service needed to support a larger investment.

There is a lot of money seeking shelter, it has flowed into Bonds, not trusting Stocks, but Bond rates are at record lows, and if they return to normal, bond holders lose a lot. If they bought in at 1.66%, and it goes to 3%, which is still low, the old bonds have to be discounted to yield 3%.

Taxes are going up, and tax advantaged investments will make a comeback. Malls, Office Buildings, will not recover. Turning housing into rentals is a management nightmare.

Forest land under management is better deal, it has the best chance of preserving wealth, and keeping up with inflation. as Mark Twain said, "Buy land, they don't make it anymore."

The trend has been people leaving rural farms, at least since WWII. Most that live there find they can make more driving 60 miles to work. Few have any interest in living where the trees and stars are the main features.

I am retired, if I would only stop working, but for the next thirty years, trees and stars work for me. I find retired or soon to be to be current, goal directed.

I have run some numbers, a 200 person village, 100 housing units, with water, sewer, power, off grid, comes to about $20,000 a house, and I am saying cottage, with a lot of self building.

For around $2,000,000 it includes, tractors, barns, greenhouses, that includes 200 acres.

A compact village, legally seperate, for housing is taxed higher than farm land. Tennessee has low property taxes, and long term that is important. It also has the highest in the nation sales taxes, and they tax food. Personal income is not taxed. Overall it has somewhere around the third lowest tax rate.

Four seasons, none to excess, a long growing season, plenty rainfall, fair soils.

Besides large tracts of forest, there are closed small dairy, farms, that were just too small to make it when food was cheap. Food will never be cheap again. Cotton, tobacco, just could not make a living. Tobacco took the best soil, so those farms are worth looking at.

Over the area land prices are $1,500-$2,000 an acre.

My model of past intentional communities is the Roycrofters, of upstate New York, who had a lot to do with developing the Arts and Crafts Period of American art, and seem like an aspie group. They did build a village and inn, in cobblestones, copper, plain oak, stain glass, had a pottery, made paper and published books, and were leaders in their time. The founder and his wife were on the Lusitania, it still lasted into the Depression. It is still there, the inn running, under new ownership.

Factor E Farm, is current, and mainly focused on making technology work for small scale, and developing many machines as kits. It is useful information, and we share the idea of a 200 person village being the best.

There is interest, last I heard he had to put in Saterday afternoon as visiting hours. Also, he is not a farmer, is an engineer in a barn, and an alien in rural life. It still works.

It is not just us, lots of people are seeking a reasonable life, where the village will not be closed and sent to China.

Another one is The Barefoot Farmer, who grows organic and some highland cattle, and sells to Nashville. He has lots of inturns come visit, and makes a good living on a small farm.

There is something worth going after, like having food, water, shelter, a basic security in an iffy world.

Assuming current inflation-adjusted real estate prices stay relatively constant for the next 5 years, the real estate (location and financing) issue might not be the most complicated part. The more complicated part is locating and attracting businesses that would hire members of the community.