Psychology Today: Biased Asperger's Article!
Here's the comment I posted:
I should start by saying that I am NOT an activist. I am just a normal 32 year old, who has been diagnosed with Asperger's since 2008.
I do not deny that Asperger's is a disability and I agree that it is very difficult to find employment and be social with other people.
However, I do believe that it was very shortsighted of you to put people with Asperger's into a generalized box, focusing on the most negative extremes of the condition. Yes, there might be some people on the autism spectrum, who would sift though garbage. That doesn't mean that ALL people on the autism spectrum sift through garbage. By citing them, you are encouraging all the negative stereotypes people have against people with Asperger's.
Despite the challenges I face every day as an individual as Asperger's, I consider myself to be a completely independent person, capable of living on his own. I have been writing for an online film magazine since last July and I have frequently been complimented for how good a writer I am.
While there are indeed times that I wished that I didn't have Asperger's, I do not wish to be "cured" of the condition. Asperger's is just a part of who I am and I have learned to adapt.
You may have practised medicine for nine years and now be a married social worker but it's obvious you don't understand statistics.
Your objection is anecdotal and the plural of anecdote is not data. What you are doing is comparable to me disputing the legitimacy of claims that approximately 85% of the population is right-handed simply because I personally am left-handed. I've deliberately chosen an example that is suggestive of reductio ab absurdum in order to hopefully illustrate to you the flaw in your attempt at criticism and counter-argument.
There are plenty of valid ways to criticise statistics and their collation, interpretation and representation. Yours is not one of them.
I am very shocked that this guy is earning a living from writing this type of condescending article- absolutely terrible sentence structure and lack of ANY actual information. In fact, it highlights what is wrong with the job Market- the wrong people often get the job! Why on earth would he be chosen when he obviously sees no hope for the aspies job prospects, and does not think big employers have ANY social responsibilities with regards to who they employ.
The sentence from his earlier post which sums up his ridiculousness is
"I was exhausted after interacting with them. And it wasn't their lack of eye contact or that sometimes, their bodies or arms were contorted. I quickly got used to that"
Hahahaha why on earth would someone find it exhausting talking to someone whose body and arms are contorted?! Really it is strange that anyone would include such irrelevant information in a post about disability! He must think he is a legend for being able to get used to that "quickly".
And I have not come across many people willing to admit they think it is a bad thing for people to believe in their own human rights; people who have experienced a lot of injustice when they have been mis/pre-judged when looking for something as important as a job- to get money to SURVIVE.
I was once subjected to a horrendous talk (attack!) from a potential employer after my interview who gave me "advice" like never to wear a skirt to an interview. I had maybe focused too much on the fact my dissertation was about British fashion, and that I had a vast knowledge of the brand history, how the clothes were made and how the brand structured their advertising campaigns during their history. I do think the ONLY reason she didn't give me the job (as a junior sales assistant at Burberry) was that she was threatened. The customers would LOVE to be served by someone with knowledge about the brand and something between their ears. Thankfully I proved that in my next job at a very high end department store liberty of London
_________________
Female, UK. Self diagnosed. Waiting for the NHS.
Apologies for long posts... I cant help it!
You may have practised medicine for nine years and now be a married social worker but it's obvious you don't understand statistics.
Your objection is anecdotal and the plural of anecdote is not data. What you are doing is comparable to me disputing the legitimacy of claims that approximately 85% of the population is right-handed simply because I personally am left-handed. I've deliberately chosen an example that is suggestive of reductio ab absurdum in order to hopefully illustrate to you the flaw in your attempt at criticism and counter-argument.
There are plenty of valid ways to criticise statistics and their collation, interpretation and representation. Yours is not one of them.
Wow, I think what cathylynn was trying to say is that the article makes NO attempt to show that people with autism/AS are not limited to menial, non-social jobs. It makes out that we are only capable of letter-stuffing on our own because it does not need any brain cells.
_________________
Female, UK. Self diagnosed. Waiting for the NHS.
Apologies for long posts... I cant help it!
The good thing about the article is the way it illuminates how many NT "experts" seek to oppress, marginalise, discount and stigmatise us as their targeted "out group". Ugh, then they can justify offering us their expert help to financially benefit themselves and pump up their CV.
I hope karma catches up with this self-serving ignoramus. Quite quickly.
Boo-hoo, he had his feelings hurt. Meanwhile, his sh!ttily researched article contributes toward further misunderstanding of and discrimination against autistic people, which there isn't enough of already. My heart bleeds for him.
_________________
Music Theory 101: Cadences.
Authentic cadence: V-I
Plagal cadence: IV-I
Deceptive cadence: V- ANYTHING BUT I ! !! !
Beethoven cadence: V-I-V-I-V-V-V-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I! I! I! I I I
Boo-hoo, he had his feelings hurt. Meanwhile, his sh!ttily researched article contributes toward further misunderstanding of and discrimination against autistic people, which there isn't enough of already. My heart bleeds for him.
Well, he ran away! I don't feel sorry for him.
What does everyone think of what my acquaintance said?
I decided to ask an outside acquaintance who has no stake hold whatsoever in the autism community. He has his own opinions on American society and I share his similar views. He gave me permission to reproduce word for what his opinions but not to use his name.
This is what I wrote to him:
Dear zzz
How are you doing?
If you do not mind, will you read this article?
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/how ... -find-work
I feel this man is being condescending towards those such as myself. A number
of those such as myself feel the same way? Are we misinterpreting what this
man is saying and his intent? Are we wrong?
Is this more proof that America is screwed up?
cube
This is his response back about Marty.
Dear cube,
I agree, the author of the article is being condescending. But I'm sure he believes he's being helpful & honest, in his own mind if nowhere else. More's the pity. I notice that his profession is listed as personal coach ... and I've always been suspicious or at least dubious about these "life coaches" who make a living by trying to figure out ways to reshape an individual to suit the demands of an existing society -- to make them "play the game" rather than be themselves.
Nowhere in his article does he mention trying to change the business model or society itself to make room for gifted but different individuals such as yourself. No. You have to change to suit society. Or so he insists. This is the problem with American society as a whole. Everything is geared to making everyone live & think & act according to a specific model, with its specific values, goals, and inducements. The existing society itself isn't questioned -- surely making lots of money, being a "success", etc. -- is what truly matters?
And if you dare to question that, then you are designated as the problem. I'll bet the author of that post would say he's trying to round off the square pegs so they'll fit into the round hole, just like everyone else. The notion of actually creating some square holes, so different people could fit in just as they are right now, simply doesn't occur to him. Incidentally, this is what a lot of the 1960s countercultural thought was really about: stating that the problem wasn't with the individuals who didn't fit in, but with the society that wasn't open & flexible enough to accept them as they were -- to make room for different ideas & outlooks.
Which is why the 1960s were co-opted, commodified, and ultimately vilified even to this day. As you know, our society likes to talk about being an individual, pursuing your dreams, etc. -- but only if it's been socially approved first. Society says: "We want you to be your own person." Society means: "We want you to be our definition of your own person. Which is really our person." I'm sure you've had people be rude & condescending & insulting if they've noticed anything different about you.
I've had the same experience, from something as simple as having a book of poetry on my desk at work. And most of the time, it's not because we've gone out of our way to call attention to ourselves as different, or insulted the way others live. No! All we have to do is appear different, even in the smallest way, and too many people perceive it as a threat, a condemnation of their own life choices. They feel insecure, they get defensive, they attack. We threaten their fragile self-image simply by existing & embodying a different outlook on life.
And so we get supposedly "helpful" articles like the one you linked to, basically telling you not to be true to yourself, to live a lie, to twist & contort yourself to fit into their world, no matter what the human cost to you. But of course "being human" really doesn't count to such people. Fitting in, being productive, reinforcing the current system -- that's all they care about. Hope you are doing well!
zzz
. . . he threatens that our comments make people more likely to be afraid of us and think we might go on a shooting spree or something if employers fire us for being autistic.
What a disturbing thing for him to say. I think this is perhaps the most offensive statement of the whole debacle.
What he needs to understand is that it's not an assault, it's a criticism. The community isn't bashing him, they are criticizing the accuracy of his statements and whether they are most representative of realities of the ASD population. I understand their intent clearly: they are not out to get him or purposely trying to make him feel bad. I am fairly good at reading subtext (what isn't said/implied) and from his response, he is just taking this criticism very personally.
Because he feels hurt by some of these statements, he has responded by tone-policing this population and is suggesting that because people with ASD responded with (in his view) harsh criticism, that they are prone to harsh attacks and retaliation in the real world, and the public should be afraid of that. This point of view is incredibly ableist and just furthers the fearmongering stereotypes prevalent throughout the article, but type of thinking can be changed. However, if he truly wants to work with the ASD population, he should be open-minded enough to consider where they come from and why they are giving this type of response.
I've noticed that when others with ASD feel hurt by something, they say exactly what they feel. They don't try to mince their words with NT-style politeness, sucking-up and formalities. He was taken aback by the blunt, non-nonsense response of the ASD community because the people in it don't know how to respond any other way, and he was hurt by it. Behaviors like this are things he *must* understand and be cognizant of if he truly wants to work with this population. That's why he was surprised that people on the spectrum were not grateful or thanking him for the article...AHEM? That's a *social rule*, and people with ASD find it hard to internalize NT style social rules!! ! Do you THINK they are automatically going to respond in the most NT-like way to your article? Of course not! That doesn't mean he can discount or trivialize their viewpoints like in the way he did with his response.
That is why the ASD community is continuing to give him feedback, and he needs to understand that. I have spectrum traits but upon meeting people who were more firmly on the spectrum than myself who were blunt and often painfully honest, I forced myself to get used to it because I take *everything* personally and thought they were out to get me. It can be done. Yes, this man is not the best at understanding people on the spectrum, but everyone here needs to understand that this is NOT a bad thing: all he needs to do is learn. He needs to consider the feedback of the autistic community more in order to see where they are coming from in order to approve his approach. There are people who work with others on the spectrum and just fail to understand them, as someone who has been involved extensively in the field, I've met many people like this.
I've seen plenty of NTs be just as harsh about things they don't agree with or were offended by. Try Babycenter. But last time I was there, it didn't seem bad as it used to be so perhaps they cleaned house. I do remember rules getting enforced back in 2011 and members there got pissed about it in our birth club group when the group owners decided to enforce the rules about respect and no attacks. In fact the whole entire website may have decided to enforce their group owners to follow their TOS.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
Also I think people were too harsh with their comments and I did not view it as criticism. I think people respond better when they don't get any attacks or harshness or they just go into defense mode and don't learn anything.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
As far as going through garbage, I had no idea it was an Autistic thing. I do know that 30, 35 years ago, way before it was labelled 'dumpster diving," I used to go through dumpsters on a regular basis, with a friend of mine.
Before most grocery stores started donating to food banks, grocery store dumpsters were incredible. Even a person squeamish about eating fresh food from dumpsters could find TONS of dented cans. Paper back books and magazines we could get for free so long as we didn't mind the cover being torn off.
We found new clothing, hundreds[ thousands] of appliances. Avon decanter collections, furniture restoration kits, fabrics, television sets, furniture, a box with about 2,000 45 vinyls, complete with lists of top 50 hits for years, the original barbie doll in her black and white bathing suit, the "playboy' with Marilyn Monroe in it, stamp collections. about 20 working chainsaws, and pretty much anything you could think of.
It was fun. It was interesting. It was like a treasure hunt every day. We wound up with cool stuff for our friends and families, plus we had an ongoing garage sale every week-end. It was super profitable, and one of the most enjoyable things I have done in my life. If what I was doing was an "Autistic thing," then, that is one more reason that I am happy to be Autistic. Dumpster diving is a hoot.
On the TV show Extreme Cheapskates, there are some people that dumpster dive because it's free food. They also dug other things out of dumpsters like furniture.
Also homeless people do it too and one of my great grandfathers used to dig in the trash for food and he would cut out the rotted parts and feed it to his family because they were that poor.
When I worked at a folkshop, they always threw tons of stuff away, especially ones that were useful or in good shape. I would sometimes dig stuff out of there and take it home with me. So folks just because you donate things to Goodwill or something does not mean it will be sold, some of it or lot of it could go in the trash before it hits any shelves in a store.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
As far as going through garbage, I had no idea it was an Autistic thing. I do know that 30, 35 years ago, way before it was labelled 'dumpster diving," I used to go through dumpsters on a regular basis, with a friend of mine.
Before most grocery stores started donating to food banks, grocery store dumpsters were incredible. Even a person squeamish about eating fresh food from dumpsters could find TONS of dented cans. Paper back books and magazines we could get for free so long as we didn't mind the cover being torn off.
We found new clothing, hundreds[ thousands] of appliances. Avon decanter collections, furniture restoration kits, fabrics, television sets, furniture, a box with about 2,000 45 vinyls, complete with lists of top 50 hits for years, the original barbie doll in her black and white bathing suit, the "playboy' with Marilyn Monroe in it, stamp collections. about 20 working chainsaws, and pretty much anything you could think of.
It was fun. It was interesting. It was like a treasure hunt every day. We wound up with cool stuff for our friends and families, plus we had an ongoing garage sale every week-end. It was super profitable, and one of the most enjoyable things I have done in my life. If what I was doing was an "Autistic thing," then, that is one more reason that I am happy to be Autistic. Dumpster diving is a hoot.
I did too, when I was in elementary school. It was unbelievable how much cool stuff my elementary school got rid of. Things might be different now, but back then public schools had plenty of money. They would regularly upgrade pretty much everything, and the old stuff was just tossed in a dumpster, usually in perfect working condition. I mean, there were books. There were albums. Toys. Gym equipment. Etc. etc. one of the coolest things I found at the school was a bow. I immediately went to a sporting goods store and I bought some arrows. Now keep in mind I was like 10 years old at the time. Most of the people reading this are going to understand a time in America when a 10-year-old could just wander around the neighborhood with a real bow and arrows, then head down to the elementary school field and shoot said bow and arrows across the field. And nobody even batted an eye. Can you imagine someone shooting a bow at an elementary school today? There would be a SWAT team there in 5 minutes


I remember seeing a bunch of textbooks being thrown away at a elementary school back in 2003.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
Reading the article I thought that he meant well, that was clueless as to our situation, that he approached the article from neuro mainstream point of view. Since he said he was quitting writing about disabilities I had come to be believe that we had made our point and he had recognized he taken on something that was more complicated then he thought. Because of that I believed it was time to stop, that anymore negative comments would be overkill.
Reading what he blogged in 2012 shows he just hates us.
http://martynemko.blogspot.co.uk/2012/0 ... s.html?m=1
Thanks to Paul Almond for bringing the above to Facebook
But he doesn't want to help them get work? That is how it sounded to me after reading it. It seems to contradict his latest article. I must have missed a part where he said he wouldn't write about disabilities anymore. Talk about taking it to extreme.
_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed and ASD lv 1.
Daughter: NT, no diagnoses. Possibly OCD. Is very private about herself.
Dear cube,
I agree, the author of the article is being condescending. But I'm sure he believes he's being helpful & honest, in his own mind if nowhere else. More's the pity. I notice that his profession is listed as personal coach ... and I've always been suspicious or at least dubious about these "life coaches" who make a living by trying to figure out ways to reshape an individual to suit the demands of an existing society -- to make them "play the game" rather than be themselves.
Nowhere in his article does he mention trying to change the business model or society itself to make room for gifted but different individuals such as yourself. No. You have to change to suit society. Or so he insists. This is the problem with American society as a whole. Everything is geared to making everyone live & think & act according to a specific model, with its specific values, goals, and inducements. The existing society itself isn't questioned -- surely making lots of money, being a "success", etc. -- is what truly matters?
And if you dare to question that, then you are designated as the problem. I'll bet the author of that post would say he's trying to round off the square pegs so they'll fit into the round hole, just like everyone else. The notion of actually creating some square holes, so different people could fit in just as they are right now, simply doesn't occur to him. Incidentally, this is what a lot of the 1960s countercultural thought was really about: stating that the problem wasn't with the individuals who didn't fit in, but with the society that wasn't open & flexible enough to accept them as they were -- to make room for different ideas & outlooks.
Which is why the 1960s were co-opted, commodified, and ultimately vilified even to this day. As you know, our society likes to talk about being an individual, pursuing your dreams, etc. -- but only if it's been socially approved first. Society says: "We want you to be your own person." Society means: "We want you to be our definition of your own person. Which is really our person." I'm sure you've had people be rude & condescending & insulting if they've noticed anything different about you.
I've had the same experience, from something as simple as having a book of poetry on my desk at work. And most of the time, it's not because we've gone out of our way to call attention to ourselves as different, or insulted the way others live. No! All we have to do is appear different, even in the smallest way, and too many people perceive it as a threat, a condemnation of their own life choices. They feel insecure, they get defensive, they attack. We threaten their fragile self-image simply by existing & embodying a different outlook on life.
And so we get supposedly "helpful" articles like the one you linked to, basically telling you not to be true to yourself, to live a lie, to twist & contort yourself to fit into their world, no matter what the human cost to you. But of course "being human" really doesn't count to such people. Fitting in, being productive, reinforcing the current system -- that's all they care about. Hope you are doing well!
I agree with eveything your friend says. Wish I could have put it as well.
Dear cube,
I agree, the author of the article is being condescending. But I'm sure he believes he's being helpful & honest, in his own mind if nowhere else. More's the pity. I notice that his profession is listed as personal coach ... and I've always been suspicious or at least dubious about these "life coaches" who make a living by trying to figure out ways to reshape an individual to suit the demands of an existing society -- to make them "play the game" rather than be themselves.
Nowhere in his article does he mention trying to change the business model or society itself to make room for gifted but different individuals such as yourself. No. You have to change to suit society. Or so he insists. This is the problem with American society as a whole. Everything is geared to making everyone live & think & act according to a specific model, with its specific values, goals, and inducements. The existing society itself isn't questioned -- surely making lots of money, being a "success", etc. -- is what truly matters?
And if you dare to question that, then you are designated as the problem. I'll bet the author of that post would say he's trying to round off the square pegs so they'll fit into the round hole, just like everyone else. The notion of actually creating some square holes, so different people could fit in just as they are right now, simply doesn't occur to him. Incidentally, this is what a lot of the 1960s countercultural thought was really about: stating that the problem wasn't with the individuals who didn't fit in, but with the society that wasn't open & flexible enough to accept them as they were -- to make room for different ideas & outlooks.
Which is why the 1960s were co-opted, commodified, and ultimately vilified even to this day. As you know, our society likes to talk about being an individual, pursuing your dreams, etc. -- but only if it's been socially approved first. Society says: "We want you to be your own person." Society means: "We want you to be our definition of your own person. Which is really our person." I'm sure you've had people be rude & condescending & insulting if they've noticed anything different about you.
I've had the same experience, from something as simple as having a book of poetry on my desk at work. And most of the time, it's not because we've gone out of our way to call attention to ourselves as different, or insulted the way others live. No! All we have to do is appear different, even in the smallest way, and too many people perceive it as a threat, a condemnation of their own life choices. They feel insecure, they get defensive, they attack. We threaten their fragile self-image simply by existing & embodying a different outlook on life.
And so we get supposedly "helpful" articles like the one you linked to, basically telling you not to be true to yourself, to live a lie, to twist & contort yourself to fit into their world, no matter what the human cost to you. But of course "being human" really doesn't count to such people. Fitting in, being productive, reinforcing the current system -- that's all they care about. Hope you are doing well!
I agree with eveything your friend says. Wish I could have put it as well.
I don't believe he is autistic at all but is different from the mainstream. I am with him and I wish we could be in any job and be in any society in which we could be ourselves and none of us has to put on this contrived act.
Both of these old Twilight zone episodes touch upon what I'm talking about.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R7GAx_w7-4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vYzJ497C-U[/youtube]
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