Undiagnosing Grandin (essay)

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This is not a good case against Grandin being autistic. Its whole basis is that Grandin was diagnosed once, in her early years, that she does not have a debilitating social impairment, and has spoken in public.
First off, in the time period when she was diagnosed the requirements to qualify as autistic were far more restrictive than they are now.
Secondly, autist people do not need to have irreconcilable social impairments to be autistic. Autism is a spectrum, in which people can different levels of different traits. Likewise, autistic people can often consciously learn methods of social interaction, which allow them to interact socially in the world.
Thirdly, there are autistic people who can speak in public. I myself (who have been diagnosed and evaluated multiple times in my life, all resulting saying I have autism) have spoken in public several times in my life.

At the time she was diagnosed as being brain damaged, that was what they thought then about autism. They even thought it was childhood schizophrenia too.

Where does the conception of autistic people not being able to do public speaking come from? I thought that would be social anxiety that would cause an impairment for someone to do public speaking.

Autistics script, and a public speech can be planned ahead

I think everyone does that though. I remember having to do a speech for one of my classes and we all had to practice it at home as homework. We even had to have cards with us and write down our speeches. But of course it takes skill because when I did it, I didn't look at the audience and I swayed my body around and I got criticism for that.

Even though Grandin gives very good speeches and makes a lot of that type of public appearance, when you watch these on Youtube it's not even exactly like you're watching Tony Robbins, that smooth, flashy, charismatic dude, lol.

While Grandin delivers informative, interesting speeches and even inject moments of humor, you only have to watch her to see that she is not a naturally smooth "public speaker." She has come a long way from her childhood challenges but it's still clear that this is a person with odd body language, and that any comfort level she may feel on that stage is probably more driven by her strong motivation to get her subject matter across, about which she feels passionately.

Nobody can tell how much "stage fright" there might actually be; no one can tell that about anyone on stage.

I know a man who -- okay, he has never been diagnosed, so this anecdote may count for absolutely nothing valid as a contribution to this thread -- but everyone in his life even says out loud to him that there's no way he doesn't have Aspergers. He fits so much of the criteria. Nobody even tries to be discreet about suggesting that to him.

He also happens to be highly respected in his career in science and he travels and gives talks. HE IS PETRIFIED every time. He tells me he HATES it. But he pushes ahead and gives these talks because he gets paid for them, and he also wants to get the subject matter out there.

Some people do things that look like they're not having any struggle with it even though they actually might be.

You might consider that experts find it quite acceptable to use the word "stroke" to refer to two entirely different catastrophic illnesses--one is a blockage of blood to the brain, the other is a bleeding of blood into the brain.

Autistic traits are common in the general population. We have to do them more often and intensely. Scripting is a well documented Autistic repetitive behavoir.

I still remember when Darryl Hannah came out comment after comment said she could not be autistic because she knew how to act. We have to do it to survive.

It seems you can receive the ICD-10 diagnosis here. I receive an ICD-10 diagnosis from a prominent autism expert just last week -- of autism, rather than Asperger's, presumably because the ICD Asperger's diagnosis rules out those who showed a delay in language development, and I was mute until 3 or 4. But I'll likely still call myself an Aspie in most circumstances, because functionally, it's a more intuitive description of my adult state.

The OP is wrong to say that a psychiatrist can't write a diagnosis that departs from DSM-V. He can diagnose you any way he wants, as long as it's half way reasonable. The DSM and ICD are basically insurance payment manuals. I'm not sure why so many laymen attach so much importance to what they say.

I vote for BPD. Alcoholic father, treated others with extremes of idealization and condemnation . . .

Mystery to me. I'm autistic and I can speak in public, whereas I wet my pants at a party filled with strangers, lol.

It isn't that I'm not anxious when I do speak publicly, but so what? Lots of people are scared when they speak publicly. And a prominent person with Asperger's who has to speak publicly frequently told me that she became more comfortable with time and practice. We do learn from experience, like anyone else.

I guess people just don't understand how broad the autism spectrum is, or that some autistic people "recover" with time, not in the sense of undoing neurodevelopmental anomalies but of compensating for them by using other brain regions. Or just develop differently. The notion that all brains are either normal or abnormal is a myth -- brains vary genetically, and who's to say that we *have* to develop language at age x instead of age y?

Yeah any time I ever had to go up in front of the class to speak...I couldn't really look at the people I was addressing, so I'd be looking down a lot. I imagine I swayed some and I know I probably definitely fidgeted some and it would be hard to speak clear like I'd get words mixed up or forget how I wanted to word things even if I had note-cards. Of course it would make me anxious too, and it always seemed like my arm-pits would sweat more(or maybe I just noticed it more) but either way so I'd be worried about it creating a visible wet spot under arms which didn't help matters.

I like as an adult I have more choice to leave situations that set off sensory problems or just not go to them. But yeah if I am in somewhere too crowded it can certainly make me anxious, but I don't have a parent/teacher/adult dragging me along with them (figuratively) wondering 'why is she being so difficult, what's she so upset about.' Of course not even sure I always knew what was making me upset...now I pretty much know what all my sensory issues are, but as a kid it was much more confusing.

I know I had a meltdown once about the way a librarian was reading a story, for some childrens story time at the library...don't think my mom had any idea what could have possibly came over me. Don't think I returned to that story time again.

The way it rolls, it's becoming more and more a condition of CANNOT whatever, so yeah it makes sense to disregard CAN, and CAN must go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=207pbJQNl58

Really? Why is it any time an autistic person overcomes extreme obstacles and becomes successful, they are suddenly not "autistic enough," or worse, faking it?!

THIS.



I do not doubt that Temple Grandin is on the spectrum as it is defined in these past decades.
I do sometimes feel resentment at her using fame to paint all people on the spectrum as rigidly the same neat packaged checkboxes.

I use my younger son's diagnosis to his advantage at this time but I still in my deepest self believe that it was a stroke during a high fever instead of mysterious "late onset" . Yet I do not discount the diagnosis after all; his father has 4 affected children in close relation and had "learning disability" , 3 nephews and a cousin with autism . My family has Asperger's, with my self as female and exception, they are all male, and either mathematicians, or in engineering. Recently a younger cousin of mine had a severely affected child.

Other conditions probably to get rolled into autism, but they are similar enough I am not going to start a insurrection for narrower diagnosis. Too many kids with possibly unk cause exhibit symptoms similar and respond to the therapies set for autism in a positive way.