Future crimes against cure/treatment developers?

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I don't know what has to be "treated" in most people who have alphabet-soup syndromes.

No, it's not neccesary to achieve such things. It's merely a bonus. Hard work can achieve the same response without the need for "social niceties".

Need? Social niceties aren't about needs, they're about being nice. If you can achieve the same response from making small talk as working hard, then it stands to reason that it's be far easier to learn how to small talk, or banter, and generally socialize, than it would be to work hard at it. If you don't have to work hard on reciprocating, then you've certainly got more time and energy for other things.

That's why I don't think it's useless.

There is nothing incorrect with your statement. I agree.

Two qualifiers though:

First, work must be done. Talk achieves little, as governments everywhere refuse to learn. The "lets form a committee" routine. The whole point of talking is to sort out a pecking order so that less successful people will end up doing the heavy lifting.

Second, For some aspies, it would be easier to just do the work than developing charm. Nobody tells the likes of Micheal Jordan that he should play hockey; thats not where his strengths lie. As we live in a specialized skill society, it makes the most sense to get ahead by building your strengths instead of filling in your deficiencies(beyond a certain point).

This is the point. You can't achieve a lasting response from small talk. You only get a short term one. Hard work has a better strike rate. Why use short term tactics when long term ones work much better? That's what NT's don't get - for the most part (some get it, and they are the tolerant ones of this world).

Fuzzy, your "qualifiers" pretty much back up my point.

That's just not true. Small talk establishes social connections, the same as working hard on gaining social relationships. Either you can "work hard" or learn to make small talk. I think it's far easier to have little chats than it is to devote myself to working hard to gain a rapport with someone.

Yes, it is, but a deficiency with most aspies. At 35, with a lifetime of express effort and training, I still cannot get it right, and I wouldnt expect a 15 year old aspie to be nearly as effective as I am. That means there is an easier path,

Before someone jumps on down your throat suggesting you are not on the spectrum, I will suggest to you that some aspies (myself included) at times have a hard time understanding that not everyone thinks, acts or sees things the same way. that is what They mean by failure of mind. You see to (in a very minor way) be placing your life experience and modus operandi on others here.

To put it another way, would you suggest that a seeing impaired person(but not blind) person could see better if they tried harder or practiced? Would you suggest that a one armed man could play a 12 string guitar if he really trained?

I guess it may be easier if you start learning when you're younger... I've got things to be second nature, and no one thinks me out of the ordinary. I may even be an exception to prove the rule, though that'd be fairly depressing.

That's why I said I. I speak for myself, though of course, if others can learn how to make small talk, then they're another bit more capable. I know I'm not the only Aspie who's learned how to make small talk; I read an article about someone else, who learned the fine art of pub banter. I don't remember it well, but he was very good at talking to others, be it about nothing at all, or something major.

I'm not sure what it is that I do. It's just so hard to put into words. I guess I'll try, though.
I started off by observing. Then I started practicing, and thought a lot. I played out social encounters in my head, went over the events of the day, or what had just happened. I just kept learning through experience, modifying my own behaviour, and cementing everything into place. I don't know exactly how everything works, or if it's just me who's an exception who's doing it. But I do know that I'm far happier now than I was when I was younger, before I started doing it.

No, that's not really what I mean. It's more like a seeing impaired person distinguishing between certain objects to the point where they can interpert what they see better than before. Using their abilities as far as they are able, as best they can. Sure, he may not learn to play a 12 string, but maybe with a prosthetic he could, or on a different instrument... Despite having only one hand, he can still learn how to make music.

If life gives you lemons, make lemonade, to quote an old metaphor.

Again, I'm not sure if I'm the only one who does what I do. I think I didn't do that good a job of explaining it, but it works for me. It might not work for others, or maybe even anyone else at all, but it's worked, and is working, for me.

So for me, it's easier to make small talk than it is for others, and I'm sure others have strengths I don't. In the end, it's what works for us that's the important thing. That's why simply discarding small talk as useless is just so wrong to me. Respect everyon's different methods of achieving the same goal; Happiness.

Sorry, you are incorrect - and further it is my experience that doing the easier things results in long term suffering, because thinking short term is poor planning. And it comes back and bites you on the rear end.

Hard work is far more rewarding - because it lasts longer and provides more stability and predictability.

Think of it as how long products last nowadays compared to a generation ago. Cheaper, but they don't last as long.

The thing that worries me the most about curebies is that they feel entitled to commit crimes against us. They restrain us when we aren't doing anything particularly wrong. They make us live under oppressive rules that normal people don't have to live by. They invade our privacy and violate our bodies and will get very rough with people who don't want their drugs. It was a red flag for me when they tried to sell me the idea, in 1987, that the new drugs were a lot better than the old ones.

They knew that I was being victimized, for example by people who would ambush me and punch me in the stomach. They in fact assaulted me with mind games and drugs when I started evening the odds a little by becoming strong enough to face them down, and they knocked me back to a more vulnerable state. They did this to me on purpose. Maybe a lot of people who want a "cure" for peculiar children don't think that they are like this, but do they see anything except what they identify or misidentify as a "symptom"? According to them it's all on me, even when the evil little sons of b*****s simply attack me from ambush.

I really don't think it's helpful talking about this.

And in reply, I say "Dont put all your eggs in one basket".

When I was a bouncer I practiced just as you do. To be that must make me pretty functional. In other ways I am not so functional. One certainly can sit and observe, record and configure rule based behavior from what is learned. But its specific to that location, and one of the problems aspies can have is that they dont generalize situations.

A nightclub is actually a very structured place. I always laughed to hear people say "I love the chaos", because its not there. Its a good example of how NTs can self delude. What they really loved is the order and structure, which is why they went to the same place every night, ordered the same drinks, danced to the same songs! The right aspie can fit in. At least with the staff. Most of the staff were somewhat oddballs too. Various types of social misfits, especially the bouncers. DJs as a rule have issues with attention seeking.

In regards to generalizing situations, Temple Grandin said something to the effect that dogs dont learn to hate all people based on the actions of just one. They need repeated examples of behavior before they generalize: "people= BAD".

What aspies do is form experiences, plot out responses based on those then blanket apply them in situations similar to the original, failing to make the necessary minor adaptations needed. The new response is often negative because of this, so they formulate a new exception and blanket apply that until it fails. You see this in all kids as they learn to speak. They learn to speak well, then suddenly regress, testing the rules.

And its why aspies mature slow. We enter that testing phase and stay longer than most folks. But in the end, we have a chance to exceed most people, as Inventor claims. Our conscious learning exceeds that of the instinct based knowledge of NTs. But usually we are 20 years behind.

I'd like to posit a theory and will post it to another topic. I'll leave you a link so that you can come read it and discuss.

I don't know how anyone is supposed to "learn" what doesn't make sense, anyway.

If you kill a doctor attempting to "cure" someone of AS, you could always claim the same thing as James Kopp (the "abortion killer") - defense of one's body. In Kopp's case howevr, it didn't work, and it probably wouldn't here either.

I dont know, but apparently people learn english all the time.

It is a better argument when it is in defense of one's own body.