Flu Shots

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"Most peculiar... rather than using well controlled and monitored treatments, you are happy to stick large amounts of untested Echinacea plant bits inside yourself, and advocate that others should also do so. "
Now, for me, it's a question of *which* ""well controlled and monitored treatments" you're referring to, and what they're supposed to do.

Vaccines: I am not entirely against vaccines on principle, just specific ones, for specific reasons. And my personal experiences with the flu vaccine have been bad. So that's not an option for me.

OTC "cold remedies" and antihystamines: these treat the symptoms, not the disease. I use them for allergies, and I use them if my symptoms are at dangerous levels. But, since the symptoms (e.g., running nose or coughing) are the body's response to the infectino, trying to get it out of my system, I find I have better results not using that stuff when I'm sick.

Echinacea is billed as an alternative to antibiotics. I am a big fan of antibiotics. It used to be, in the first few years after my heart surgery, and given my history of chronic bronchitis, all I had to do was call my cardiologist's office, and he'd prescribe me prophylactic antibiotics. After I stopped getting the flu shot, and as long as I got those "just in case" antibiotics, I never got a secondary infection, and my artificial valve graft has remained fairly healthy for 12 years.

However, after I moved to VA, I couldn't find a doctor that would willingly give me the prophylactic prescription. They all insisted on seeing evidence of an infection before they'd give antibiotics. Therefore, I *had* to research alternatives, and tried echinacea.

Integrated medicine is something you don't get in the UK, but which is growing rapidly and very popular in NZ. Basically it means doctors work closely with natural medicine doctors of different disciplines and refer patients to them, and vice versa, so they get the best care possible. This can often be in clinics under the same roof... As such, the government recognises it and has strict training rules and regulations for the diplomas and degrees available. It's not a fringe subject like it is in England; it's a growing, recognised, and strongly regulated field just like any other. It doesn't shun modern medicine - the idea is to work alongside it and use the latest advances in natural medicine to do the best possible.

http://www.naturalhealthcouncil.org.nz/index.html
This is the NZ Natural Health Council (formerly the NZ Natural Health Practitioners Accreditation Board)... name says it all.

http://www.healthcharter.org.nz/
This is the NZ Charter of Health Practitioners

Both do accreditation, insurance, regulation etc.

This is the main association of herbalists in NZ:

http://nzamh.org.nz/aboutus.asp

The main association of natural therapists is here:
http://www.nznma.com/

- and they have extremely strict joining criteria, including a degree, training in health sciences (including biochem, physiology, anatomy, etc), minimum 5 years practise, and continue training and development. Doctors, nurses etc can also join as associate members, again provided they meet the criteria. They also promote integrated healthcare models which are something growing in NZ, with plenty of GPs training in natural medicine as well, and mixed-discipline clinics popping up everywhere.


You have to have a degree from one of the approved schools to register with either of them, and all degrees are government recognised and approved.

http://www.naturopath.org.nz/about.html Is another NZ Naturopathic one with links to insurance companies that cover natural medicine in their healthcare plans, and government trainig etc - joining rules aren't quite so strict but you still need a degree to be a full member.

As for the schools themselves -

http://www.wellpark.co.nz is the most widely recognised natural medicine school in NZ, and has the only govt-recognised course in Ayurveda in the western world. Note that the naturopathy one will soon be a bachelor degree. They train students to work in Integrated Clinics, which I have yet to see here but which there are a good number of in NZ, basically where doctors, naturopaths, nutritions, herbal doctors, etc work together referring patients to one another so they get the best treatment possible.

http://www.spcnt.ac.nz/ is the other top one in the country, also providing a diploma of herbal medicine - this one is less practical based (ie you don't get as many hours clinical practise) and more classroom, but government recognised all the same and with solid courses.

http://www.ccnm.ac.nz/Diploma-in-Clinic ... icine.html is another one based in the South Island, also a govt-recognised course and a school with a good reputation


They're probably the three most well-known, though there are several others that will provide it in NZ.






There you go.....

And if you still think it's a bit of a fringe hippie load of nonsense, it might interest you to see the complementary medicine journal Oxford University have seen fit to put out - the Oxford Journal of Evidence-based Complementary and Alternative Medicine. http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/

Interesting, again.

I see that the herbalist club exists and so does the naturopath one.

There are schools taht will sell you a piece of paper.

Oddly, the NZQA at http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/ does not seem to actually recognise the diplomas they offer.

WRT the Oxford bunch, they sound useful, but I found the abstract at http://ecam.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/5/2/123 to be a little worrying:

http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/providers/cours ... lSiteInd=0
and http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/providers/detai ... =101799001

http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/providers/detai ... =100215001
and http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/providers/cours ... lSiteInd=0

http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/providers/cours ... lSiteInd=0
and http://www.nzqa.govt.nz/providers/detai ... =101511001



....the search engine works pretty well.

... it didn't for me. I was searching for the subject qualifications, not just looking up the schools.

I see the NZ School of Acupuncture & TCM even offer a bachelor degree in Acupuncture. My... how sad.

dosn't this sound a lot like orange fanta gives you cancer?

Depends what country you're in. The chemicals in orange fanta may indeed give you cancer... for example, looking at the wikipedia entry for it, the Spanish version has sodium benzoate with ascorbic acid, which is a recipe for benzene, a carcinogen. Sodium benzoate also causes hyperactivity in children (and adults!).

The US version has high-fructose corn syrup, which is linked to diabetes, obesity, heart problems, blood pressure problems, etc etc and is very, very toxic.

The UK version has aspartame (one of the most toxic food ingredients in existence and a very potent carcinogen), and sodium saccharine, which isn't a great deal better.


So some countries have it better than others. But yes, there is a good chance that it could give you cancer in more than a few.



..........and to get back to vaccines...........


Jabby jabby jab jab.

The only jabs I like are the ones where they take your blood and give it to people who need it. Mmmmm. Feel-good vampire syndrome.

You'd think they'd understand such basic science as that after however many years of med-school wouldn't you? I mean, sure, if you've got a virus and it's lowered your defences and you've ended up with a nasty secondary bacterial infection that's slowly eating away at your lung/eye/arm/whatever, and your body definitely needs help to get rid of the bacteria, then sure, go ahead. But if it's just for the initial viral (or parasitic, as you said) infection then what the hell is the point?! I was told once "It's just in case you get a secondary infection"... well, firstly, no point taking them if the bacteria aren't there to kill yet in the first place, and secondly, it's just going to kill all the good bacteria, and given that a good portion of the immune system's 'power house' is in the gut too, surely that's not such a good idea? "Hello candida, come inside, yes, infect this young lady, we'll even give you a helping hand...".