Wonderful Asperger Poster

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I said that here idea that many might not actually mind having their hair cut. I was being diplomatic in saying that she might want to adjust her perception slightly, or did you forget 'No offence madam'?



There's a difference between issues that I could solve by telling myself that I was being paranoid and issues where people seem to be unable to have a haircut at all without feeling a strong aversion to the sensation of cutting. I decided to leave it when the OP mother came back and proclaimed very nicely that I have different issues to other people, thus it meant she was by no means forcing an idea upon other people and so I had no right to keep badgering at her about it so I just had to accept for now that they just had an extreme form of my own issue, which instead of my problem didn't just go away by forcing myself to do it. Is that okay?
[/quote] I'm not sure how I'm suppose to interpret that as meaning you have had similar issues and understand what the child is going through. You clarify now that you have had similar problems. Thank you, it makes more sense to me now. [/quote]
I did in the sense that I didn't like having a shaver used on me but I didn't in that I just told myself to grip my teeth and I felt right as rain afterwards. The first point, the issue with the sensation, was similar. The second point, ending the problem, was different.

All I wanted to clarify is that may be she hadn't told her son that it would be a good idea to face his problem head on like I did, but being that she was so conscientious in response that blows that theory out of the water like a Dreadnought shooting a Viking Longship and the Longship's filled with TNT. From the evidence I have so far there's no reason to say that she didn't. It is weird that you cannot face a difficulty head on and overcome it. It's not only weird, it's depressing. Trying to help people overcome that by suggesting what I did isn't wrong or callous. I may sound brusque but my intentions were noble, trying to help someone end their particular problem.


I'll just say here before I read anything below that I believe a lot of our problems are actually caused by issues of integration with people whose minds work differently.



Really? Can I see some of them? I want to compare them to my own advice.



Well? Does the fact that it is solitary as an opinion mean it loses veracity? Argumentum ad populam. Numbers don't determine correctness.


I will admit to one mistake, using the phrase tough love. I meant it to mean that the child should try to be tough in himself, not the parent on the child. That sort of arbitrary forcefulness by another person on.. let's use the common parlance, a 'literal' mind would be extremely damaging and I freely admit that if I got the meaning of the phrase tough love wrong then what I mean to say was that the child should be tough on himself in an instance controlled by himself. I can remember very rarely my father being tough on me arbitrarily and it caused many problems and solved no issues.



I was saying that I don't feel that such sensory phobias are not inherent to us. You suggest yourself above. I may have sounded sharp and I knew I would have at the time but it would have been a veritable beacon for them and telling them that a particular issue may be easier to solve then they think, can you imagine the comfort that may give to a parent? Also there's an argument from incredulity fallacy. 'Surely parents cannot be wrong' is what you said. They can be. All people can be wrong. Telling them this is not insulting. Telling me that I can't tell them for the reason you gave is however.


I was offering advice not overstating an opinion. The only thing that was overstated was the point where you speculated on my mental health clouding my judgement.


You questioned my ability to understand other's points of view, which is questioning my intelligence. Understanding other's points of view is a facet of intelligence when it is given word.

This has been made obsolete by my clarifications above.


That sort of sanitization will work with people like us I feel, not as much as with others. The music idea hazards at what I think should be done, which is to basically look at the problem rationally, tell your child that if they grit their teeth they will get through it and that they wont be harmed earnestly then I feel you will stand a much better chance of ending the problem as long as you let the child not feel like he's being rushed. When the child rationalizes that it's nothing the problem will go away permanently. The advantage of the music is distraction. The hair-cutting sensation itself wasn't the problem for me. The problem was thinking about the object of fear.

I have the same sort of problem with escalators. I didn't use to fear escalators but I developed one. I have the sensation that I am unbalanced, but it isn't the unbalancing that causes the problem, it's the irrational thoughts sprining from it that I could fall over and do serious harm to myself. The thing is that I have stared down this fear several times and gotten through it. And although it is still difficult it's much more tolerable and my method was by basically making obsolescent my fear and I intend to make it a nothingness. Same with shavers. Same with sleeping in the dark. Same with watching John Carpenter movies. Although I actually solved the first two a long time ago.


No, you have no right to start saying that I failed to understand because I have aspergers. I have already shown where I made a mistake and I have already showed you why you were wrong so don't try and heark back to that. What you are seeing is not a lack of understanding but a different point of view. You cannot simply bandy about that my aspergers is to blame for my fault in regards to this argument. Ad Hominem arguments are cheap.

Speculating about my mental awareness is not acceptable. Don't do it. I want an apology. When people start making alleged assertions about you I defend you. Extend me the same courtesy and don't start saying I have an excuse either.

Either other people's perception of right and wrong is off or mine is. I can understand the woman's problem fine. I bet the frustration would be overwhelming if she wasn't as caring as she showed herself to me. But can you understand my frustration that the child may be able to end his problem? Ending another's suffering is more important than accidentally offending someone wouldn't you say?

I am the woman to whom Gedrene replied "no, no and no."

Many people who are autistic do have sensory problems which make having a haircut a difficult experience, adults as well as children. While Gedrene has been able to overcome the problems he has had, that doesn't mean that other people can do the same, nor does it mean that other people don't try.

My son, who is diagnosed with Asperger's under the WHO ICD-10 criteria, and who has been additionally assessed separately as having complex sensory processing difficulties, does have problems associated with having his haircut. This has been an issue since he was a toddler, well before we were aware that he was on the Spectrum or had particular sensory issues. As far as having his hair cut or not, I am not particularly bothered. He is now 9 years old, the same age I think as the child in the photograph, and has decided to have his hair longer and cut his fringe himself, with help from me.

What is more concerning is the difficulties he has with dental treatment, and I am pretty sure but I'm not going to check, that I've seen a number of people here commenting that the sensory issues which make haircuts difficult also make dental check-ups and treatment difficult.

I can only speak to my son's experiences, but I can assure you that these problems cannot be overcome simply by gritting one's teeth (ha!) and getting on with it. When he was 5 years old he had two huge abscesses in the gum above his middle upper incisors. The abscesses were so large that they obscured his front teeth, but my son experienced no pain at all, not even discomfort. His sensory processing issues, which are very real, are such that his pain perception is distorted. He felt no pain from a dental problem which most people would find excruciating, but he could not tolerate the dentist touching his mouth to examine him.

We have a very good, patient and calm dentist, who didn't attempt to force treatment on my son. It wouldn't have been possible anyway to do that as it would have caused more harm than good anyway. My son was well aware that he needed to have this problem dealt with, and that the milk teeth should be extracted. On two occasions he decided that he would be able to go ahead with the treatment, and the dentist gave us an appointment at very short notice when my son was himself motivated to go ahead. On both occasions, the same thing happened. As soon as the dentist attempted to carry out an initial examination my son freaked out.

This is a child who is intelligent, articulate and aware of the need for good dental health and the advantages of the treatment being attempted, but no matter how much he tried and how well motivated he was - it was impossible. We had to rely on intermittent courses of antibiotics to treat the abscesses while we waited for the milk teeth to come out in their own time.

My son currently has a very rotten molar, which will need to be extracted. Dentists in Scotland don't administer anaesthesia, so he has been referred to the paediatric dentist at the local children's hospital to have the tooth extracted under a general anaesthetic.

His sensory processing issues are very real, not the result of "mollycoddling" and not something which can be overcome by "tough love" or determination. I don't think you fully understand what is meant by sensory processing or sensory integration dysfunction. Gedrene talks about having overcome particular fears - that's not what this is about.

You indicated to another poster to specifically show where you superimposed your views on others. I attempted to provide what you were looking for in hopes that it would help you better understand the situation.

I haven't suggested anything about your mental health one way or another or your intelligence, it was strictly a matter of trying to help you understand that your stated cure of tough love is not something that will cure an inherent condition that one cannot fully understand unless one experiences it. I appreciate the fact you clarify that's not what you meant, now. But, for those that experience sensory integration problems, as medically identified, gritting the teeth will not make it go away either. As I said before I think your intention was to help, not to harm anyone.

I won't apologize for trying to help you better understand what you sought understanding for, but since you take offense to the way I presented that information, I am sorry it offended you.

This is the kind of communication issue that does cause problems with some individuals with aspergers in social situations, I stated that in this case that it can, in case you felt like it didn't apply to you, and freely used myself as an example of when it does happen.

I have no idea what's in your head, or what problems you as an individual may actually have, all I can do is observe your words and try to provide an understanding when there seems to be specific miscommunication issues.

From your analogy above about the shavers, escalators, and scary movies the way your understand sensory integration issues as a fear or phobia of a sensation, it seems that you may not have experienced tactile sensory integration problems, which Marcia was referring to, that can be hard to overcome, unlike sound and light issues one cannot plug their ears or cover their eyes to escape it, when they are touching something or being touched by something else. From your last post, you seem to clarify now, that others may experience something much different than you, unless I am misunderstanding you.

With tactile sensory integration issues that are medically identified, the biggest problem is the actual physical sensation. One does not have to be afraid of anything to feel the same discomfort time after time again.

A child is born this way, it's a neurological condition, it's not something caused by society; there is absolutely no evidence that this part of Aspergers and ADHD, that some have, is anything but an inherent neurological condition.

I personally was born with tactile sensory integration problems, and did not meet someone with a similiar issue until I was 45 years old. My very first sensations of a child that I can remember were the inability to touch man made textures, like carpet or even denim, it's produces a physical sensation that is not necessarily painful, but one that is extremely hard to tolerate for any period of time.

The best way to describe it is the effect most people get when they hear someone scratch a chalkboard. The sound of scratching across a chalkboard is much more tolerable to me than touching carpet. It's a good analogy to use because people can't make that feeling they get go away either, unless they close their ears. In other words, it doesn't have to have anything to do with fear.

Fortunately, most of the time people can avoid touching things that bother them, choose the type of fabrics they wear etc. A visit to someone cutting hair, or a visit to the dentist, is not something one can normally avoid, so one has to find a way to tolerate it.

This internet site is one of the few places where people can share the experience of what this feels like. If you do a search here on it in the discussions presented you can hear people descriptions which are similiar to mine. Not everyone with Aspergers has sensory integration problems, I'm not sure if the majority do, however they are adding it to the DSMV, so better statistics will be available in the future for people with Autism Spectrum Disorder.

Sensory integration issues are also correlated with ADHD. No amount of gritting the teeth is going to make severe tactile sensory integration problems go away. Marcia knows what she is talking about, when she states that.

I've come across a few people that can't stand to touch carpet here, but not everyone that talks about problems with touch experience it to that kind of degree of discomfort.

If you don't have serious tactile sensitivity issues consider yourself lucky, it's something one may not be able to escape their entire life. Not something that necessarily gets that much better as one grows older either.

I'm not sure it's all bad though, I think that some may experience pleasurable sensations to a greater degree also. Surely, that depends on the individual and their genetics as well.

If you haven't experienced tactile sensory integration problems or haven't come across someone that has explained in detail what it's like, it's not unusual, I think, that you wouldn't fully understand it; people in my life listened to me describe it, but every response was hmm that's weird I've never heard of that before, until I came across someone that shared the same experience.

Maybe I have come across a bit brusque to you as well, in my attempt to provide a better understanding of sensory integration issues, but I assure you my intentions in helping you understand this, are good as well.

I'm not sure if you are responding to Gedrene or myself, it appears some of the quotes were not broken up clearly in the an earlier post; my position is sensory integration problems are not the result of molly coddling and not something which can be overcome by tough love, or gritting of one's teeth. I am in full agreement with you here, and have experienced severe tactile sensory integration problems my entire life. And for me they are getting worse with age.

The communication issues I was discussing had nothing to do with sensory integration issues, if my communication was confusing on that part, I apologize.

Look, you speculated on my mental health. Do you want me to show you where you thought I couldn't understand because of autism? That's disallowed for a start. It's highly presumptuous second and it has nothing to do with helping to understand anything thirdly. Fourth saying that I am somehow just incapable is only a way of trying to discredit me without proof. Do you have proof of any of this? No. Apologise.
I said I wouldn't apologise for helping a person possibly end their fear forever.
You aren't going to apologise for speculating on my mental health whilst at the same time trying to justify it as explaining things to me. Apologise.
They aren't equivalent.


Look, you're doing it again! Quit insinuating that my mental health has something to do with my comprehension!


I tried to help someone and damn the consequence of a parent getting offended (and she didn't!). Why is it that you are still talking about anything? SHe didn't think I did anything wrong and she left. Stop talking about it. I can't go because you wont stop talking about me!


It is quite easy to see why it could be mixed up, since as I already described a sensation was a trigger for the discomfort. So can you care to explain that you can read my and the child's minds and show how they were different in some way? Because they both occured when we first encountered the problem I can assume


And if I could explain why this is not the case I can help the child actually overcome his problem because I feel that I could solve it. Why do you continue to fail to understand my side? It certainly isn't because of autism.


You speculated my mental health is why I didn't agree with you. If we talk about my ability to understand other's points of view we talk about mental health. It was unnecessary.

Sorry, aghogday, reading my post again I realise it's not clear whom I am addressing. My comments were directed at Gedrene.

I was not speculating on your mental health, it seems you took it that way, but I never mentioned your mental health. A misunderstanding of another individuals point of view, has nothing to do with mental health; if you think it does that's fine, but I've never heard heard that suggestion before.

I brought up Aspergers/Autism as a general condition, issues specific to communication, using my own past experiences to identify them, in case that was part of the difficulty in communication. I'm not ashamed of having Autism, or any issues associated with it, so I didn't mind sharing my experiences with it. These type of communication differences are part of Autism.

You would be the last person I would think that would suggest that Autism has anything to do with mental health. There are co-morbid mental health conditions that go along with it, but are not known to be directly related to the condition of Autism. You state the potential trait associated directly with Autism, I brought up, is not a problem for you, I accept that. I apologized if you found the way I presented the information as offensive, as apparently you did.

I accept your clarifications about the communications with the other posters regarding sensory integration disorder. I no longer see any misunderstanding there, now that Marcia has given her response to her child's sensory integration issues that are in agreement with the current scientific understanding of sensory integration issues.

The only reason while I am still talking about this is because you asked me questions, you asked for an apology, and I wanted to provide a better understanding of sensory integration issues. If you don't have any further questions, I don't see any need to discuss it any further.

No problem. Thanks for the clarification.

Aghogday if you don't already know saying that I can't understand other people's side of a problem because of autism then that's talking about my mental health. Because if you didn't already know, Neurological differences affect my MIND. So if you weren't talking about my brain not doing what is expected and therefore a problem with my mind and thus my mental health are you suggesting that another of my organs stops me from showing empathy? Maybe my optical health is lacking, my renal health? Olfactory? Reproductive?
Furthermore it doesn't matter if you were actually suggesting my mental health because you were blatantly saying, without proof, that I don't understand because of a fault in my comprehension. That's against the Terms of Posting. I don't do it to you. You don't do it to me. Quid pro quo. Okay?


DSM and ICD disorders that allow people to misunderstand other's points of view: Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder, Panic Disorder, Persistent Delusional Disorder, Chronic Hallucinatory Psychosis, severe Temporal Lobe Epilepsy can also lead to miscomprehension during the use of certain drugs that are supposed to combat fits, Any number of diseases that can cause psychosis including:
disorders causing delirium (toxic psychosis), in which consciousness is disturbed
-neurodevelopmental disorders and chromosomal abnormalities, including velocardiofacial syndrome
-neurodegenerative disorders, such as Alzheimer's disease, dementia with Lewy bodies, and Parkinson's disease
-focal neurological disease, such as stroke, brain tumors, multiple sclerosis, and some forms of epilepsy
-malignancy (typically via masses in the brain, paraneoplastic syndromes, or drugs used to treat cancer)
-infectious and postinfectious syndromes, including infections causing delirium, viral encephalitis, HIV, malaria, Lyme disease, syphilis
-endocrine disease, such as hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, adrenal failure, Cushing's syndrome, hypoparathyroidism and hyperparathyroidism; sex hormones also affect psychotic symptoms and sometimes childbirth can provoke psychosis, termed puerperal psychosis
-inborn errors of metabolism, such as porphyria and metachromatic leukodystrophy
-nutritional deficiency, such as vitamin B12 deficiency
-other acquired metabolic disorders, including electrolyte disturbances such as hypocalcemia, hypernatremia, hyponatremia, hypokalemia, hypomagnesemia, hypermagnesemia, hypercalcemia, and hypophosphatemia, but also hypoglycemia, hypoxia, and failure of the liver or kidneys
-autoimmune and related disorders, such as systemic lupus erythematosus (lupus, SLE), sarcoidosis, Hashimoto's encephalopathy, and anti-NMDA-receptor encephalitis
-poisoning, by therapeutic drugs (see below), recreational drugs (see below), and a range of plants, fungi, metals, organic compounds, and a few animal toxins
-some sleep disorders, including hallucinations in narcolepsy (in which REM sleep intrudes into wakefulness)

To be honest, if Mental Disorders never affect comprehension of other people's ideas and purposes or their responses to others we wouldn't have such things as Mental Disorders aghogday because noone would seem to be affected by anything. That should be clear.



All of this is made redundant by above comments. Also I haven't seen any apology. You said you were brusque once. That isn't an apology, nor does it apologise what I want you to apologise for.


You can't decide when you have nothing to answer for aghogday: I can't either. The facts are clear: The rules are printed. I follow them: You should too.

Everyone misunderstands someone's point of view at some time or another. The mental health illnesses you listed above affect the ability of people to think coherently and general comprehension, that's not the same thing as misunderstanding someone's point of view.

Misunderstanding points of view is not a cause or correlation of cause for any mental health illness. Autism is considered a neurological disorder that in some people causes a difference in the way they think and perceive the world around them. A requirement of Aspergers is that one has no cognitive delays; intelligence is not supposed to be affected by Aspergers, only behavioral, communication, and social interaction issues.

You already state you have Aspergers, undiagnosed, so I don't think it is unreasonable to point out the potential difference in communication that is part of Aspergers that some individuals experience. My intention was to be helpful in the situation, because I experienced this communication difference in my life; it was no mental health issue, I experienced it as a fully functioning independent member of society, with a full time job, house, and a wife. It was just a different way of thinking. I didn't see it as a mental health illness issue for myself so certainly don't see it as one for anyone else.

I did not assert you had any issue with this, I suggested it could be possible that this was the normal way your mind worked in communication, as it is for many people with Aspergers and autism. You stated it wasn't, I accepted it, told you I was just trying to help and apologized that you took it as offensive.



I'm not going to apologize for my intention to provide information that might have helped you, if it had been a communication issue for you. I understand you took it as offensive so as already quoted above I apologize that you took the way I stated this information as offensive in thinking I was questioning your mental health.

There was no intention of insinuation of personal attack or actual personal attack on you. In fact my comment other than trying to provide helpful information, was also in defense of your character as an autistic individual, in consideration of the comment that preceded what I said, if you look back on it. I tried to help, sorry you didn't like the way I went about it.

And to be more specific here is what you said I said:



And here is the orginal full quote of what I actually said in context with the previous comment that it was in response to:





I didn't blantantly state you had any problem, only stated it could be possible that you have a common communication trait among people with Autism, which includes those that have Aspergers. It could be possible that any person with Autism has this trait; only a qualified professional could determine whether or not it was part of an official diagnosis.

It's been brought up in a thread before in the heat of discussion between autistic members, to provide understanding; it seemed to help there, so I was thinking it might be helpful in this situation, as well. I was wrong, it upset you instead of helped, but it certainly wasn't meant to be offensive.

Hopefully we can put this to rest now.

So the ability to think coherently and general comprehension do not also include misunderstanding someone's point of view as possible?


I don't care what you think about what problems people with aspergers apparently have, but I understood what that woman was saying perfectly and I think your attempt to say that I didn't get it because I had autism was cheap because that's just an easy excuse for saying 'well there's no reason listening to him'. If you get in the habit of using that it just means you can say it must be my autism rather than actually deal with what I am saying.

That is an ad-hominem attack on my ability to reason and further more it is a case of begging the question. I have autism, thus I didn't understand it correctly. Why didn't I understand it correctly, because of autism.


Why don't you stick to proving me wrong than exucusing me. I will invoke it as a reason if I see fit. It's presumptuous that you should try and use it for me.


That is talking about my mental health. It doesn't need to be blatant. It was said though. You presumed. Don't presume.


This is an insult. And all you said was basically 'It wasn't his fault, it was his autism'? That's atrocious! You should have said something appropriate, and not presumptuous, like: That kind of comment isn't appropriate Zeraeph. When Zerapeh picked on you for using 'doublespeak' I didn't say 'It must be aghogday's autism', I said: You have no reason to say that. I can't believe that! How dare you not even reciprocate my help! Now if not reciprocating isn't what people call an autistic trait then I don't know what is. Pot calling kettle black!

Misunderstanding someone's point of view includes the behavior of every individual on the planet earth; including the ones that are mentally ill and the ones that aren't. It's not specific to an illness; it something commonly seen in any discussion. That's why I suggested that the cognitive empathy aspect could possibly be at play, instead of asserting that it was at play.

I freely admitted to Zeraeph that part of my communication problems in concise langauge were part of my communication problems with Autism. It doesn't bother me that I am autistic, or that I communicate differently than other people.

I freely admitted that I have had issues communicating with other people not fully understanding their point of view, which is part of difficulties in cognitive empathy understood to be common in Autism/Aspergers. I'm not ashamed of it, it is the way my mind normally works. I've adapted well enough with it to get by.

I didn't state it was your Autism, I suggested it could be possible that this is the normal way your mind works, because of autism, as it is in my case. You took offense to something, I don't consider offensive as an autistic person; that is where you and I differ on this particular issue in communication differences.

You clarified it's not the reason for the misunderstanding in communication, I accepted it, and apologized that you found it offensive, and stated although, I was trying to help, I was wrong in trying to help you this way because it upset you.

What else do you want from me, besides an admission that you took what I said as offensive, although it was not intended to be offensive, and an apology from me that you took it as offensive and I was wrong in thinking it might be of assistance in this particular situation, because of your response to the information?

But you said that I was misunderstanding because of autism, when I hadn't misunderstood anything. THe fact remains: You said that I didn't get her point of view because of autism. That's presumptuous, it's also cheap. There is no recourse. Apologise for presuming any lack of ability on my part. It is an ad hominem argument and a pretty shallow one at that.



It is presumptuous to assume it on other's behalf and shallow to presume that I must be wrong, probably because of my autism. You aren't my doctor. You aren't me. Apologise for stepping over the line.


It: It isn't my autism: it's my Autism. I can see why concise speech may be a problem, because all you did was forget what you said at the start and gone on to say the same thing. You don't have the right to suggest. It's still ad hominem.




You could be an NT and not intended it. You could be the Buddha and not intended it. You could have been a space alien with nine squamosal bones and not intended it. It doesn't matter: presuming that the mental makeup of a person is why he did not get an argument is not only presumptuous, but also it is a pretty damn 2-dimensional method of shooting another person down without actually tackling their argument.

All your defence has done has tried to justify a very wordy version of: He's crazy, don't worry

Apologise.

Quote me anywhere where I asserted the communication problems in the discussion were an Autistic trait you had, and I will be happy to apologize for it. I have already showed you were I stated might, can, could, may be possible, but I never presumed you actually had the trait or stated you had it. There would be no way for me to know, only a qualified professional could make it part of an official diagnosis.

Other than that I have been as nice as possible to apologize because you didn't like the fact that I brought up an Autistic trait and suggested that it might be possible that it was part of the issue.

Sorry that's not stepping over the line, until you tell me it's stepping over the line. If I insisted you had the trait, and didn't accept your explanation that you didn't that would be stepping over the line.

My presentation of the issue was much more polite in discussing an autistic trait than your statement of No, No, No, to Marcia when she described her account of how sensory integration affected her children. You never apologized to her for that, she didn't expect it.

As far as talking about issues related to Autism, you already stated you had part of the problems with Autism of sensory issues, so you felt like you had the authority to discuss the issue with others to help them.

Well Gedrene, I have the issues as well so why is it not fair for me to hypothetically discuss an issue of Autism with you, but fair for you to tell others that you know better answers to help children about their sensory integration problems than the parents do or people with Autism that you understand their issues when they tell you they don't?

Here is you own statement about discussing other peoples issues with Autism:

[Quote="Zeraeph"]
But you certainly do not understand *MINE* - nor anybody else's for that matter.

You stated you knew her issue with Autism after she told you, you didn't. I never stated I understood your issues, I only suggested that it could be possible you might have a trait of autism, related to the communication issue at hand.

And furthermore, when you told me you didn't have the trait of autism and found it offensive that I might even suggest that you could possibly have it, I apologized that you found it offensive.

I don't see you doing that here with Zeraeph; she indicated she found you asserting you understood her issues related to Autism unacceptable, when she stated you didn't understand them, and I don't see an apology, only an argument that you had a right to continue to insist you understood her issues when she told you that you didn't understand them.

You exact words were: "Get over your wishful attempts to make people think they can't talk about other's issues. This is a debate forum."

Instead of apologizing you tell her that you have a right to discuss other's issues because this is a debate forum.

I have afforded you a much more polite response than you have afforded others that have asked you not to discuss their issues related to Autism. I was careful in discussing the issue to use wording like could possibly be, might be, can, or could be not to sound presumptious or sound like I actually knew that you had the trait. I even gave an example of it in myself so, if you did see it in yourself you might be able to better understand it.

Show me somewhere where I actually stated you had the trait, and I will be happy to apologize for that, but otherwise this conversation is old, I have done my best to help you understand my point of view, and there is not much more I think I can do to help in that regard.

I could follow your rules and ask you for an apology for continuing to state that I asserted that you have the trait when I only suggested you might possibly have the trait, but I will never demand an apology here from anyone regarding a communication issue, because I understand that people here are autistic and it is likely that there is going to be problems with communication, because that is a core issue related to Autism.

I don't need to say you asserted anything.
I said that it was wrong of you to presume that you know anything about how my mind works.
I also said that presuming that how my mind works would mean I did not get what you or anyone else was saying was shallow as an argument because it was Ad hominem.

Here it is:
[quote=aghogday"]It could be possible that this is the way that Gedrene's mind works, and it is his normal way of seeing issues like this, as far as understanding from a cognitive and/or affective perspective that other autistic individuals experience the world much differently than he does.

Part of the problem, is, if this is the case, it may be difficult for him to understand what I, you, or the other posters are talking about in disagreeing with his point of view here.[/quote]

Apologise.

Here it is:




I specifically pointed out directly after the quote you presented from the orginal post, before you offered any response, that I did not contend to know how you think per quote below, so your statement above that I presume to know anything about how your mind works is inaccurate.





This reference was to an autistic trait that is common among autistic individuals. I've already accepted that you don't have the trait, and apologized several times that you have taken offense to my attempt to provide information regarding the autistic trait, that might have helped if you had that trait.

You have stated several times that I stated you do have the trait, which is inaccurate, I never stated you have the trait. If I had inadvertently stated that, I would have apologized as well, but there is no evidence for that.

I have gone above and beyond to be nice to you here, to try to provide understanding, and apologized for any offense you have taken. You yourself just a few quotes behind mine said we should be able to debate each others issues related to autism; from that statement there was no reason for me to think, that I would have been going across any personal line of yours, by discussing an autistic trait, that might be influencing the communication process.

You let me know I crossed a personal line of yours, and I apologized that you took offense to the way I presented the information. I'm finished apologizing, it's time to move on.