Another save the world from autism website

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You make a lot of statements, delurker, but provide no evidence for any of them.

I'm curious as to your credentials. You apparently ignore the opinions and evidence provided by a range of autistics, and prefer to make comments like "Why wouldn't severely autistic children be suffering?", implying that you have some inside knowledge of this, which is curious, as you seem to ignore what autistics say, therefore are hardly likely to have any insight into what might bother them.

What makes you think that we want you trying to represent us?

I think assertions such as yours are ridiculous, and that people should just acknowledge that some autistics do not particularly want what most other people have, including the abilities of others, but those other people seem displeased when the autistic doesn't have (or want) them.

You insist that I should want what the average person wants.

lau, what are your credentials? Look at this evidence about IQs:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/580 ... ltext.html
http://www.brainy-child.com/expert/auti ... test.shtml
http://doctorcushing.com/_wsn/page19.html
I don't care about the opinion of every disingenuous aspie who wants to call the shots. They haven't provided evidence. Aspies aren't severe autistics. There aren't any people that don't want to be intelligent, autistic or not. Propaganda will not dupe enough people into believing that many autistics want to be mentally weak. How many autistics don't want the ability of others? I don't care what you want. For all I know, you have enough. You and other non-impaired aspies shouldn't be trying to make anti-cure choices for the low-functioning.

dalurker, would you please provide us with links to any proof that squirting stem cells into these kid's brains can cure their autism?

I sorta agree with you that we aspies seem to think that we have the right to speak for everyone with autism, and tend to be very dogmatic in our beliefs. Me, if I saw proof that this treatment might complete the missing connections in the brain, I would probably support it. Seems kinda far out considering how little humanity knows about stem cells and what they do, tho...

I doubt that such proof about stem cells exists yet. I hope someone does research on that to find a way to use stem cells for a cure.

I don't understand... that's what this topic is all about... apparently these parents are asking for donations so they can take their kids to Mexico and squirt some stem cells into their brains.

I guess some people digressed from this topic because some people don't want any treatment/cure to be administered, in Mexico or not. I don't know a lot about how this topic started.

I would not have even bothered to comment to a post like that. The logic of that post is this:
NT's have their problems , therefore - it is better to be Autistic
(same as: NT have their problems, for example, they might have problems at work, autistic do not have such problems, because they mostly do not have any job , therefore it is better to be autistic (and do not work and therefore - do not have any job ralated problems - Cool!)))

Daluker, there is a good proverb: never argue with idiots, they will bring you to their level and beat you with experience )))))).

I think, Lau, the same is true about you. What kinda evidence you provide? The sentence "personal experience from listening to other's" has been so far your only so called "evidence".
Trying to reinforce your evidence by saying: "this is my personal experience" is ridiculous.
Ok, you have one experience and Daluker is another, so, why your PERSONAL experience is somehow superiour to his?
but even more ridiculous is the phrase: most autistic can speak, because that is what is they told me )))... Hah! no, you did not say that but it is almost the same as what you said: "most autistic are against the cure, because that is what they told me"
No what about those WHO DO NOT SPEAK???
Daluker, do not get too frustrated. remember: you are dealing with Aspies )))

I gave mine earlier.


Well, the first seems to be evidence.

Yes, a German paper that supports the claim that IQ testing is suspect, with WIS versus RPM, though to a lower degree (9 pts, versus 30 pts) than the earlier study, and primarily for lower IQ range autistics.
However, I found it very strange that their three groups tested (AUT/CLIN/NT) were not comparable, as you can see from their table 1.
The NT group were almost all male, for some reason, and averaged almost over twice the age of the CLIN group. The NT group also averaged almost ten years older than the AUTs. (24.9, 12.2, 15.3).
They used completely different IQ ranges for the three groups (with the NT group an average of 111.7, with none in the sub 85 range where they drew the distinction between the autistics.
Finally, they seem to have been unclear as to exactly how they processed their results, but from the way the data is presented, it would appear that they averaged before drawing comparisons. This would vastly reduce the effect they are supposed to be measuring.
In particular, note that the variance they show on the NT group is less than ten points, and consistent across all the IQ measures. I.e. this control group seems to be selected from a particularly narrow range of above average intelligence, older subjects. I wonder why?
For the AUT group, the variance is over double that (22.2) for the RPM, showing that even that is not very reliable.
However, the variance for all three WIS tests is treble, making those tests patently unreliable, I would say, as the paper is supposedly giving a reliable result for a difference that they claim is nine points, as opposed to 30 points. The results for the tests show that the WIS tests already inherently are significantly in disagreement with the RPM.

A commercial site that doesn't seem to say much, except to quote some figures without any references.

Another commercial site that does psychological testing, but doesn't say anything about connecting their tests with autism.

So. One relevant paper, which is supportive of inaccuracy in IQ tests. A different figure, but one that I would say their data hardly can justify.

Two other links that say nothing.


I feel no need to reply to that.

LOL

Well, sometimes I try not to. I even sometimes wonder where they get their crazy ideas.

I use the term "listen to" in its broad sense, which subsumes "read the words of", and more.

For instance, I listen to LabPet and others, who happen to be non-verbal.

I also listen to those who are less articulate. To those who have trouble organising their thoughts, make grammatical errors and spelling mistakes.

I think that covers it... I'm open minded.

The lack of comparability between the three groups doesn't really invalidate the conclusions about the autistic group, unless comparisons of the groups are important. I think a better study should discern the differences between the groups. Why shouldn't the three groups have had completely different IQ ranges?

I believe the term "bad science" would spring to mind?

It's no worse than the original Dawson et al. 2007 study that the study expanded on.

"Normal" = NT. Since they call themselvs normal, and you yourself claims to want to make Autistic normal.


They don't, but they have a better chance of doing it. Everything comes at a price.


Ok, I get it now, you want everyone to be able to do everything, so they won't feel isolated.
Correct?


Now, let's be honest shall we? Around 99% of us has suffered our entire lives becouse of some form of inability. Our inability prevents us from acting like NTs, wich means, we are different. So they treat us like we are different. And it's this treatment that is the source of our suffering.

From what I understand of autism is that the "worse" it is, the less you associate yourself with other people. The high functioning Aspies are the closest ones to NTs, but have some form of wall that's preventing them to join in the crowd, they want in, but can't (unless they act). The more severe it gets after that, the less the person associate him/herself with other people. And from what I've seen about severely Autistic, they do not appriciate when you intrude in their world. And with that in mind, I'm sure as hell that they would not like to be forced a "treatment".


Yaeh, the PARENTS wants a normal child. And they are displeased when they don't have one.


Correction: NT's have their problems , therefore - it is no idea to change.

Who would be stupid enough to change a set of problems (that is a pain) that you know and can handle (more or less), for a new set of problems (that is a pain) which you have no idea how to handle, becouse you've never encouterd them before?

That's just stupid.

Silvervarg, I didn't say I wanted anyone to be made normal. Stop using the distracting argument.


Yes. So why not?


Being treated as different isn't the source of the suffering. If you like being "different" so much, why would you be bothered by being treated different?


How dare you imply that the low-functioning are content in some alternate reality that they prefer. Think of all the low-functioning who have struggled to communicate and have been frustrated out of the inability to do so. Why don't you go and be low-functioning if it's so great? How would you like it if you were dependent on others for basic things and inevitably were dragged through things like a child, indefinitely?


Stop making this about the parents as if their children want the opposite from them, regarding being cured.