Neurodiversity < Aspergianism

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If I were given the choice as to whether or not to eliminate Humans, I would do it.
Aspies are not human, and I thank whatever karmic design did this. A human, practically by definition, is virtually incapable of the level and detail of thought we are. Segregating ourselves away from them is possibly the best way to ensure OUR survival. I do not care about theirs. And as far as the so-called half-breed Aspies go, I consider them Aspies as well. What WE are and what THEY are can be classified as two different things.
Aspies, when together, could quite literally walk among the stars like the classic Sci-Fi scenarios. Humans, when given the same technology, would do naught but wage war in a new battlefield with new weapons at their disposal.
I refuse to accept that, while we descended from humans, we are humans. Humans even admitted it to an extent, or at least implied the possibility. "So could this mutation, which keeps occurring and is hereditary, possibly be the future of human evolution?" I say yes.
As an Aspie, I can tell you right now that we are light years ahead of NTs/Humans. I don't care how they slice it, nor what they say. We can communicate with each other, and we can coexist with one another. Humans can barely do that with themselves. In what, two million years of evolution, only ONE Aspie has ever done anything that can be classified as violent (Hitler).
As far as leading them out of the darkness, have you ever heard the phrase "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink?" Regardless of how many times we extend a hand of peace to them, they will do naught but spit upon it.
Bottom line: Aspies > Humans

-TB

Simpl. We give them an ultimatium: if they try spreading their violant ways beyond Terra, we will have no choice but to destory them.

We do not, however, need to destroy them straight off.They are, afterall, technically our cousins, much in the same way as Romulans and Vulcans are. One's violant and emotional, the other manages to control theirs are base decisions on logic I'm more of the the third type shown in one episode, who master their emotions rather than suppress them. We can simply segregate from them, but as I said above, if they try spreading their violence...

We are not a seperate species from them, anymore than Neanderthals were. If we can breed with them, then we're the same species.

Doesn't mean we're the same race.

An Aspie breeding with a Human is much the same as two different species of tigers mating. In the fact that they are both tigers, yes, they are similar. I do not argue with this. However, a Bengal Tiger is a different SPECIES from a Somalian Tiger. See my point?

-TB

Yes, I do. Humans are different from Neanderthals, yet people are suggesting wuite seriously that the lineages crossed, and modern humans are hybrids.

Homo Sapien vs. Homo Aspie, anyone?

Firstly, apologies for not logging in. I'm at a different computer.
Secondly, I fully support the Homo Sapiens Aspergius theory. Neandertals, Cro-Magnon, and Aspergius are all different species of "human". On the same token, however, I think of it like branches on a tree. We all shared a common ancestor at one point, but we branched out. Aspergians are one of the highest and furthest branches yet, and are capable of many of the complex thought processes that humans [homo sapiens sapiens] have been enviously trying to emulate for generations (anyone ever seen Focus Factor?) but with only limited successes.

-TB

It really bugs me that the idea of creating an autistic community is being linked to the Aspie Superiority movement - one does not follow the other. As such, I'll address the two things separately.


Firstly, the superiority idea is crap.

For starters, if we were just looking at it on a skill-for-skill level, we possess both advantages (hyperfocus, special interests, unique perspectives) and disadvantages (executive dysfunction, less networking) - putting autistic at roughly the same average level of ability as NT within groups that have the same opportunities.

Even this is still a ridiculous way of looking at things - there's no way to measure "general skillfulness" in a way that wouldn't be entirely biased towards what the tester considered important skills to be.

And finally, even if someone did invent an arbitrary scale and prove that autistic people earned more "points" on average than NT's, it still wouldn't change a thing - people are all equal, regardless of comparative skill levels. No-one is "generally better" than anyone else.

Aspie superiority is exactly the same as any other sort of superiority movement - entirely based out of bigotry and ignorance, rather than facts.


Secondly, the idea of an autistic community does not have to be linked to a superiority or segregationist stance.

The idea behind setting up such a community would be to create a place that is ideal for autistic people to live, in terms of culture, architectural design, and legal requirements (at least as far as possible on a local level). This community wouldn't be about excluding NT's, just about connecting with other autistic people - there's absolutely no reason not to make NT's welcome in such a community. In fact, it would probably be quite necessary, in order to create enough trade opportunities for the community to survive.

I've pondered it as a thought exercise a few times, and the best way to make it work that I can think of would require about $400,000 in start-up funds (for real estate and low-cost sustainable building supplies, such as papercrete), about 20 interested autistic people - 5 of whom would have to be both capable of earning a living before the infrastructure is put in place (e.g. via internet businesses) and willing to put money into the community until things are properly working (to cover food supplies and other essential items).

The idea would be to set up a basic living area for the 20 people, with room for expansion, and run it both as a place for autistic people to live, and an autistic cultural tourist attraction for people that just want a place to recharge for a while, or for NT's that are curious about autistic culture. Once a tourism industry has formed, growth and other industries would follow.


The other possibility requires a lot more people (around 1,000 in the same country should do it), but a lot less effort and resources - just pick a small town, get everyone to move there, and encourage as many of them as possible to get involved in local politics, enabling us to influence the town in whatever direction we want.


It's fun to think about, but as I don't have $400k or 1,000 other interested people handy, it's not very practical. Still somewhat more practical than a flying city, though... *grins*

Alright, here's a question for you. Which do you view as superior: a Rhesus Monkey, a Neandertal, or a Human?

Before you jump on me and say "it's not the same thing", allow me to point something out. While I agree that Aspergers has its 'faults', we need to look at these from something OTHER than the normal societal standpoint. This, in my experience, has been like asking humans to think in 10 dimensions instead of 3. Very difficult, if not impossible.
As you so aptly noted, a scale would be a difficult thing to develop. However, I base my 'scale' on overall intellect and behavior. True, Aspies suffer socially WHEN PUT WITH NON ASPIES, but if you put Aspies together, the so-called social problems don't exist. I've never run across an Aspie and had problems communicating because of social barriers. Not saying it CAN'T happen, just saying it HASN'T.
When you liken Aspie Superiority to, say, White Supremacy, though, you are insulting quite a few individuals, the least of which is myself. I do believe we are superior. Let's see any Neurotypical comprehend the functions of the higher dimensions above 4D. Let's see Neurotypicals compare with our creativity and intellect. Let's see a Neurotypical stack up in sheer memory, focus, and recall.
Taking this into account, try looking at this from a different perspective, as I have multiple times. Everything you are basing your argument on is founded in Neurotypical Logic. Once you look at it in Aspergian Logic, you will see dimensions to the argument you never thought possible. Try it. It's fun.

-TB

None of the above - the word "superior" hasn't been qualified. There's simply no such thing as "general betterness". If you were talking toolmaking ability, then it's a human. If you were talking tree-climbing ability, then it's a rhesus monkey. But you're talking "general betterness", and no scale exists to measure this.



That's still some very vague terminology. Assuming your scale does have autistic people earning more points, it still doesn't mean much - as you've invented the scale based on things that are important to you.



True enough - what I actually listed as disadvantages were executive dysfunction (which isn't related to social problems) and less networking (which is based on the tendency not to maintain large social networks - not quite the same thing as a communication barrier).



And I'm happy to do so. Any form of "superiority" movement is based on the same dynamics as white supremacy - the creation of an artificial hierarchy in order for one group to consider themselves "better" than others. In fact, from the dictionary, supremacism is "the belief that some particular group or race is superior to all others". In other words, superiority and supremacism are the same thing.

Or to put it even more simply, your opinions are based in prejudice, in exactly the same way that a white supremacists beliefs are based in prejudice.



This comes from specialisation, not capacity for intellect.



There's no such thing as "Neurotypical Logic" or "Aspergian Logic" - there is simply logic. Logic dictates that general superiority does not exist.

That *has* been what I've been suggesting, the community idea. Just because I've been casting it as a micronation....

It's useful to be able to weild a military though. You can invade countries like the USA, and destroy the Judge Rotenburg Center. That place has got me really annoyed.

As an Aspergian, why are you fighting me on this? What does it matter to you if we're superior or not. Of all the situations I had imagined, fighting against one of my own was never something I wanted.
Regardless of what you say or do, if Aspergians are superior, they are superior. There is nothing you or an army of NTs can do. I take comfort in that fact. And I am still laughing from your statement of a lack of superiority of a human over a Rhesus Monkey.
Superior life-forms exist, there can be no denying that. An extreme example would be aliens. If an advanced spacefaring civilization came to earth, with their civilization and technology billions of years ahead of ours, THEY are superior to US. In much the same way, Aspergians are light-years ahead of Humans in mental capacity. They can't even touch us.

-TB

Bookkeeper: You are intentionally disregarding all the high IQ people who are NT. You may think that Aspergians have a monopoly on high IQ. You are wrong. And there are plenty of non-AS members of high IQ societies who would be happy to set you straight. The assumption that they must be Aspergians because they have a high IQ is one of their pet peeves.

EvilZak: Your ideas for an intentional community sound very do-able. There are lots of models of intentional segregated communities to learn from (and to learn why some of them crashed and burned). I've heard of religious ones, all-female ones, hippie ones. I've never heard of an Aspergian one but it should be as do-able as any of these others have been.

THANKYOU.

Please show me where I stated that it is impossible for a Neurotypical to have a High IQ. I stated that they weren't capable of the same level of thought an Aspergian is. There is a difference there.

-TB

Please elaborate on exactly what "the same level of thought" means and how NT and AS people differ in this regard. Some rigour with some of the theories you are putting forward would be welcome.

One example I can think of off the top of my head is visualization. When an NT visualizes an object in 3D, they are 'movie screening' it. For example, viewing a cube is actually viewing a PROJECTION of a 3D cube onto a 2D surface. Neurotypicals cannot visualize in perfect 3D.
Aspergians, on the other hand, can take that cube and break it apart, rotate it, put it back together, see the inner workings, etc. With practice (and several friends of mine can do this as well as myself) we've been able to visualize all the way up to 7D, and our goal is to train our minds to work at the maximum 10D.

-TB