How to change the "victim" mind set?

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It's a good philosophy but just like school one mold to effect the outcome will work with a certain type of individual and the others need something a bit different.

Exactly, you need an integrated model of different approaches. Depending on the individual
the elements in the model will have differing levels or relevance. For example , lets take the notion that one element of AS is the sense of of social anxiety. The drug company can make a
pill that reduces social anxiety. This reduces the feeling of dread and terror when out and about in shops or school or work. You don't mind strip lights and the sounds of grating metal and you don't metldown on the London Underground. However the following problems still remain.

1. From birth the child hasn't learned the complex rules of social interaction- anxiety is the product cause-product and cause, reinforced learning in the cycle , not the deep seated reason for AS, behavior and emotional response are only one aspect of the whole.

2. You are now lightly bombed out of you brain and wandering around happy, but social anxiety is part of the learning mechanism . NT's get it individually as shame and collectively embarrassment . It comes out when they transgress the social rules of their group, or someone else's group. Most child-NT's quickly adapt their behavior because from what I gather it feels the same as our sense of alienation and it's like a mini-tazar blast to most of them (to which we have built up a tolerance.)

2.a As children and to an extent adults when they get something right socially get a nice warm sensation and feel valued and worthy and proud and loved. This is a parents aim to use both cold-zap and warm-stoke as learning mechanism for their kids.

3. So you and me are wandering together in a park lightly bombed out of our heads feeling all warm and gooey with the world . Problem solved regarding years of compressed social
mistakes and resultant social aggression from NT's- Oh dear wait ,we only have a few social tools , we can't play soccer-a five year old can play soccer better than I can , how long do you feed ducks for until someone makes out you are weird, you want to buy someonelse's kid an ice cream because he's given you so much pleasure watching him carefully build a toy glider -in some circumstances this would be right ,in others not- and we've got to learn all this stuff- but haven't got the empathy to sense what's going on- the social world's like a sea and you need shark-like senses to detect all the changes- that's why we have huge brains to process all this social data, but they don't work all the time.

4. So we're not freaking out , but we don't know the complex social rules nor can we calculate the probabilities of meaning intended in others and our own behavior- if there isn't some kind of teaching method to learn, how do we learn this? If were on happy pills how will we sense the strong feelings of shame and embarrassment that reinforce some situations but not others- that's why NT's spend so much free time drinking booze or smoking weed or getting off their heads on minor religious feel-good stuff when they get together outside work
because here the rules change.

That's just one aspect of a complex integrated model- and raises more fascinating questions than most abstract AS ones we ask ourselves to occupy or processing capacities when we're left out of a social loop.-Yep our brains are chattin' sh*t to us because our brains they think we need to do something but don't know what to do, so we start memorizing car number plates and road maps and the complete works of some obscure writer instead of processing relevant daily social data.

So a chemical 'cure' on it's own isn't going to work, I don't think. The extent to which it is relevant depends on the individual.

Your catering to the logic of a certain crowd.

Ci

Please stop attempting to bully me.

It is neither big nor clever.

Right. You don't win the argument and are being bullied because you don't get your way. It's called poor sportsmanship. I don't buy into the N.T social sphere vs. the Aspie social sphere. Thats your socially programmed and conditioned belief construction. Your choice to pursue it.

memesplice,

Why don't you give me a day or two here to really look into what your talking about. Like you I tend to become very detailed. I can understand opposition to taking pills. Yet I want to spend the time and understand the other things you are speaking of.

It is perfectly sensible that in spite of my confirming others understand what I say that you do not. In place of cogent conversation and civility you resort to I must be inferior to you because I am not capable to writing to your liking. If instead in your behavior you could seek to learn from me as I do of others when I don't understand be respectful enough to ask specific questions and not declare others inferior to yourself that must be modified to your specific liking. How about you ask a specific question and I can give a sensible reply. Post after post you write the same kind of comments toward me yet fail to be respectful enough to bother.

Do you want to know what sphere is?

An attempt to create abstract imaginary of context so as to separate thoughts, patterns and ideas into proper contextual relations. Can better compare, analyse and discern beliefs, ideas and emotions subjectively given governing patterns and influences. It then becomes somewhat like an archetype in study especially since ideas have words which then words have visual manifestations like on this screen. It's just how I organize the world around myself intellectually.

It is the only sensible solution to figure out false facts, lies and what others will not explain even when others do not wish to have known why they believe / think as they do. Curiosity but yet instead you are intolerant of it and perhaps feeling threatened by it. If instead you would rationalize your own mind and define it clearly I would not have to attempt myself. I do not believe you are lacking intelligence but rather prefer your way as most everyone else has their opinions on matters as well. My only interest here is the preservation of human rights on the cure matter when individuals choose any potential future cure as long as it is not demonized by biased individuals so as to be prevented in the first place.

Yes others should quite bullying individuals with disabilities rights to be cured if they choose.

Guys it's not an either or- maybe drugs have a role to reduce anxiety or desensitize against meltdown stuff, but some degree of social learning's going to have to go with it. The puzzle will be slightly different for everyone and the pieces different proportions, but the underlying pattern of how they fit together might be the same for certain groups of AS , or not - has anyone researched this, individual models of care using a variety of approaches tailored to a well assessed individual care plan.

Would anyone object to consensual medication and feedback to GP who knows what she or he is doing?

If it's forced and non-consensual and prescribed by a callous idiot or groups of idiots then I'd object and protest, but if it's done with fundamental respect and inclusion in the process then I don't have a problem, if I can choose to decline or accept and exercise ( note I didn't say be given or allowed) the freedom to make valid judgments where necessary.

Meme.

That's the thing here isn't it? Our freedom not to be considered a sub species and have our identity defined by others in whose economic and social interests it is to maintain us in a state that pays their mortgages on a regular basis. The other side to this is there may be those wanting to run behavioral programs and social learning courses who are equally motivated by profit and status and they get behind this whole NT- AS thing in a similar way. Either extreme is destructive for us and I think we have to filter carefully.

I'm not an expert in co-evolutionary theory but my experience tells me I am significantly different from NT's to regard myself as belonging to a different group and evolution has to have played some part in the development of my neurological differences.

I know NT's like classifying things and we share most of their culture language and whatever other basis for making sense of "all the stuff there is ". Unless we develop a completely divergent culture and our own language and new cognitive modes of then it's not unnatural to classify ourselves within their current frameworks.

What I'm saying is we can choose to be victims of their systems or to find ways to use their systems so as not be victims. I think ultimately most NT's want want this as well.

If we studied their systems with the ferocity and intense intellectual focus we approach our special interests we would probably have more control when it comes to being offered a cure, be able to dictate it on mutual terms and have enough power in that relationship not to be victimized for their benefit.

Currently it is this aspect which seems so out of balance. It is valuable to remember one aspect of AS is that sense of utter worthlessness ( as experienced growing up) in spite of the talents and gifts we have. To enter into a relationship with the medical/social- 'caring' profession without a mutual power balance is going to be demeaning and only reinforce that sense of difference measured/defined = less than the clinician/Nt's in terms of human value, ie we will still feel worthless but in a different way. And that really is not a cure only a shifting of the problem from the general to the specific.

What is needed is mutual respect and that has to be earned by us and enforced by us.

meme.

That is what I do.

Ci, in simple language, using word like " stuff" etc what do you do ?