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zena4
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09 Sep 2011, 6:06 am

Hello pianorak,

I haven't read all the answers you got but don't worry - if I may so - people in France can be pretty harrassing too, to the point of leading people to suicide, even when they would be in good health otherwise.

It's not a conspiracy but everyone doing his/her little business in his/her own field, adding one another on one another on another one and so on and so fourth and... You got it.

And for the state persecution, as you call it, we have the same here (but maybe not for the police - well, I hope so. At least not anymore) : it's never their fault, always the others.

... Just like kids in school. They don't assume much of their responsabilities and when they do, for the ones who do, there are all the colleages or the little big chieves (or the real real big chief) to spoil the goo job. Or the lack of money where it would be so useful.



Zeraeph
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09 Sep 2011, 6:44 am

zena,

I think you could be making a lot of sense there.

zena4 wrote:

It's not a conspiracy but everyone doing his/her little business in his/her own field, adding one another on one another on another one and so on and so fourth and... You got it.



piroflip
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09 Sep 2011, 6:58 am

pianorak wrote:
For several decades my family has been subjected to a campaign of persecution, harassment and financial deprivation, including vandalism to our house, car, and power, water and phone connections, dishonesty and attempted extortion from private companies, personal abuse from many people including organised religions, and denial of healthcare (from either public or private sector), legal services, financial provision [for example from a work pension or social security (despite having paid into the former and being legally entitled to the latter)].

We have been to the police many times but have never received any help, even for assault, death threats or other life-threatening behaviour. In some instances the police have been at least complicit in the persecution. For example; on one occasion the police said that a man who came to our house solely to threaten us and commit vandalism, "had an alibi because he had informed [them] he was going to [our] house".

The involvement of the police and government agencies in the persecution convinces us that it is state-sponsored, while the involvement of private companies and other organisations demonstrates that the UK state is exercising much more domination over the nation than we are led to believe through the media.

A few years ago I realised that I, as well as most members of my family, are Asperger people, although I have been refused a diagnosis. I would be very interested to know if anyone else has experienced or is experiencing similar persecution in the UK or other western "democracies".


Well I'd want more detail before commenting with my opinion.
For instance; if you were being harrassed by debt collectors then that would be your own fault.
Pay up and they'll go away.

You can't seriously expect helpful comments without detailing WHY this is happening to you.



Gedrene
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09 Sep 2011, 7:41 am

piroflip wrote:
pianorak wrote:
For several decades my family has been subjected to a campaign of persecution, harassment and financial deprivation, including vandalism to our house, car, and power, water and phone connections, dishonesty and attempted extortion from private companies, personal abuse from many people including organised religions, and denial of healthcare (from either public or private sector), legal services, financial provision [for example from a work pension or social security (despite having paid into the former and being legally entitled to the latter)].

We have been to the police many times but have never received any help, even for assault, death threats or other life-threatening behaviour. In some instances the police have been at least complicit in the persecution. For example; on one occasion the police said that a man who came to our house solely to threaten us and commit vandalism, "had an alibi because he had informed [them] he was going to [our] house".

The involvement of the police and government agencies in the persecution convinces us that it is state-sponsored, while the involvement of private companies and other organisations demonstrates that the UK state is exercising much more domination over the nation than we are led to believe through the media.

A few years ago I realised that I, as well as most members of my family, are Asperger people, although I have been refused a diagnosis. I would be very interested to know if anyone else has experienced or is experiencing similar persecution in the UK or other western "democracies".


Well I'd want more detail before commenting with my opinion.
For instance; if you were being harrassed by debt collectors then that would be your own fault.
Pay up and they'll go away.

You can't seriously expect helpful comments without detailing WHY this is happening to you.


Can I point out that asking why what is happening is always reasonable, and if anyone expects to challenge this then they are either intentionally hiding something or they are unintentionally not giving credible evidence. Thanks for your voice of reason piroflip



Zeraeph
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09 Sep 2011, 8:00 am

piroflip wrote:
You can't seriously expect helpful comments without detailing WHY this is happening to you.


In fairness, though, of course there must be a reason, pianorak has already stated that he hasn't got a clue what it is, which is why I have tried to encourage him to think again, and see if he has missed something.

Even so, it is possible that he may never know the reason why it is happening, which in itself would suggest either an automated error, or coincidence, and that will not make him any less desperate for some kind of solution.

When you can't identify the reason, all you can do is address the symptoms, but at least that is something.



Gedrene
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09 Sep 2011, 8:30 am

Zeraeph wrote:
piroflip wrote:
You can't seriously expect helpful comments without detailing WHY this is happening to you.


In fairness, though, of course there must be a reason, pianorak has already stated that he hasn't got a clue what it is, which is why I have tried to encourage him to think again, and see if he has missed something.

Even so, it is possible that he may never know the reason why it is happening, which in itself would suggest either an automated error, or coincidence, and that will not make him any less desperate for some kind of solution.

When you can't identify the reason, all you can do is address the symptoms, but at least that is something.


The problem is though is that pianorak has detailed a very large list of why things have happened, but there could be hundreds of explanations better than accusing the UK of state persecution. It all just sounds like pianorak is trying to find evidence that points to state persecution rather than even tending to the possibility of other explanations.



Zeraeph
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09 Sep 2011, 8:39 am

Gedrene wrote:

The problem is though is that pianorak has detailed a very large list of why things have happened, but there could be hundreds of explanations better than accusing the UK of state persecution. It all just sounds like pianorak is trying to find evidence that points to state persecution rather than even tending to the possibility of other explanations.


No, that is not *the* problem, that is just *your* problem with pianorak.

*The* problem is that pianorak is the target of situations and behaviours he should not have to tolerate and cannot find a resolution to.



Gedrene
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09 Sep 2011, 8:43 am

Zeraeph wrote:
No, that is not *the* problem, that is just *your* problem with pianorak.

*The* problem is that pianorak is the target of situations and behaviours he should not have to tolerate and cannot find a resolution to.

I am sorry Zerapeh but more accusations about how I have problems with people doesn't actually change what I am saying.

I do have a problem that people wont seek out the possibility of more reasonable conclusions. This would be very applicable to you actually because maybe you wouldn't keep mixing your apparent antipathy for me with any actual argumunt you make and will stop making these deranged accusations, like how I am forcing people to change, or how because I am a man and you are a woman then I must be wrong.

Furthermore do you have any reason for that 'preposterous' comment or are you just trying to sweep it under the carpet?



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09 Sep 2011, 10:41 am

Gedrene wrote:


I do have a problem that people wont seek out the possibility of more reasonable conclusions?


Thank you for sharing.

:?



Gedrene
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09 Sep 2011, 12:50 pm

Zeraeph wrote:
Gedrene wrote:


I do have a problem that people wont seek out the possibility of more reasonable conclusions?


Thank you for sharing.

:?

1: I do have a problem that people wont seek out the possibility of more reasonable conclusions. It wasn't a question. :/
2: You haven't responded to anything else I put. You're just hanging up on something you didn't understand and forgetting everything else I put.
3: Is mockery really necessary?
4: Given that it isn't a question how is what I said hard to understand? People are laying down a conclusion that is negative about others and they don't even consider the alternatives that are actually more reasonable. I have a problem with that kind of narrow-mindedness. Although narrow-mindedness isn't the only fault on display by the people on this thread thinking the UK persecutes us as a matter of course...
5: Can you explain how the word race is 'preposterous'?



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09 Sep 2011, 6:15 pm

Gedrene,

You are trying to hijack a thread posted by someone in a distressing situation as yet another arena to argue for the sake of arguing about any irrelevant tangent it occurs to you to raise. I cannot stop you, but I certainly can refuse to be drawn into participating with you.



Sedisp
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10 Sep 2011, 1:31 am

Zeraeph wrote:
piroflip wrote:
You can't seriously expect helpful comments without detailing WHY this is happening to you.


In fairness, though, of course there must be a reason, pianorak has already stated that he hasn't got a clue what it is, which is why I have tried to encourage him to think again, and see if he has missed something.


Intelligence agencies have far FAR better things to do than harass a random person for no discernible reason. A corporations goal would be obvious to make more money. Both could easily arrange a "disappearance" for cheaper.

Quote:
Can you explain how the word race is 'preposterous'?


Fine. What are phenotypic characteristics that people with Asperger's syndrome all have?

If you answer anything I know you're going to answer you now share your race with most socially awkward people.

Btw: Phenotype is something observable.

Bottom line. You want to defend your condition the way you feel sounds best as opposed to what is correct.



Gedrene
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11 Sep 2011, 9:37 am

Sedisp wrote:
Quote:
Can you explain how the word race is 'preposterous'?


Fine. What are phenotypic characteristics that people with Asperger's syndrome all have?

If you answer anything I know you're going to answer you now share your race with most socially awkward people.

Btw: Phenotype is something observable.

Bottom line. You want to defend your condition the way you feel sounds best as opposed to what is correct.


It is frankly absurd that you call asperger's a medical condition yet somehow say there aren't phenotypic characteristics. How would you identify any disease if it didn't have shared characteristics? Supposing autism is genetic as most people do, that would mean phenotypes.

Ah, I also love that last quote about 'defend your condition'. Pretty typical for some people around here to presume what I think or feel without evidence.
Also that 'bottom line' phrase. It's pretty common to try and end an argument because you feel like it too.



pianorak
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11 Sep 2011, 1:57 pm

Gedrene wrote:
pianorak wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
Do we really need to let this dicussion be dominated by copnspiracy theories?



There's a difference between conspiracy theories and conspiracies. The latter do happen, either on the side of the citizen, eg Guy Fawkes, or on the part of governments, eg the recent news about Gadafi, MI6 and the CIA.


you guys were talking about Princess Diana being murdered. That's a conspiracy theory. I wouldn't mind if people proved it but all I hear is that the guy who owns Harrods throws a wobbly whenever it is mentioned.



I was responding to Zeraeph's suggestion that we move to another country, and, slightly tongue-in-cheek, gave the death of Princess Diana as an example. I believe their are many examples in the news at the moment which indicate that MI6, the CIA, etc. aren't necessarily limited in their activities by national boundaries.



Gedrene
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11 Sep 2011, 2:01 pm

pianorak wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
pianorak wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
Do we really need to let this dicussion be dominated by copnspiracy theories?



There's a difference between conspiracy theories and conspiracies. The latter do happen, either on the side of the citizen, eg Guy Fawkes, or on the part of governments, eg the recent news about Gadafi, MI6 and the CIA.


you guys were talking about Princess Diana being murdered. That's a conspiracy theory. I wouldn't mind if people proved it but all I hear is that the guy who owns Harrods throws a wobbly whenever it is mentioned.



I was responding to Zeraeph's suggestion that we move to another country, and, slightly tongue-in-cheek, gave the death of Princess Diana as an example. I believe their are many examples in the news at the moment which indicate that MI6, the CIA, etc. aren't necessarily limited in their activities by national boundaries.

Yes, but that wouldn't be a big bombshell since the examples you have are of doreign intelligence agencies. Them working abroad isn't proof that they are part of conspiracy theories.



pianorak
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11 Sep 2011, 2:02 pm

Zeraeph wrote:
pianorak wrote:

I agree with you that this must use huge resources, and run the risk of pushing people into the very activities it purports to discourage, but I think you underestimate the power of fear demonstrated by that scientist.


Sorry, I must be sleepy or something but I can't see where you are getting that from the article?



I think it's obvious that the authorities are suspicious of and even afraid of 'loners' (read Asperger people). See the thread on "Are NTs afraid of Aspies?"