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shrox
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13 Nov 2011, 1:53 pm

Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
I wonder if Chris realizes he could actually make a living as himself, I could see him becoming a regular on some morning radio show. It might not be ideal, and certainly not a true "representation" of any condition, but for his own financial welfare, it's something I could see happening. Maybe FOX will pick up a show around him.

Oh yes, bread and circuses for Rome. L: Another gladiator for the sport of madmen if you please.


Do you think homelessness would be better for him? I did not enjoy it.

Indeed. And so you supposed bullying a man is any better? Say, you said you were a christian were you not? Since when did being a christian involve harassing a man with no sense of direction, a terrible upbringing, severe loneliness and no wisdom whatsoever?


That is not what I implied at all.

What's wrong with him making money from the very people that might enjoy "ridiculing" him? He would get "bullied" if he was homeless on the street anyway, and probably beat-up, maybe even killed for sport.

So why don't you step up with an idea for his future then?



NathanealWest
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14 Nov 2011, 11:27 am

Yeah I don't think they're gonna pay for what they have been doing for free.



Gedrene
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14 Nov 2011, 11:41 am

The wrote:
No, we are simply allowing a grown man to accept the consequence of his actions and how he presents himself. You can't feel bad for this guy. He comes across as Rain Man crossed with Buffalo Bill. I feel no need to stick up or defend him. He makes a choice to be a target.

No, I am sorry but it takes a truly base person to make a jump between ridiculing a man for what he does and hounding him for what he is. Whatever fantastical imagination tries to somehow make it acceptable to believe that a person who is bullied brings it upon themselves is living in sure denial of their own injustice and trying to rationalize their petty attitude.



Last edited by Gedrene on 14 Nov 2011, 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Gedrene
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14 Nov 2011, 11:47 am

shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
Do you think homelessness would be better for him? I did not enjoy it.
Indeed. And so you supposed bullying a man is any better? Say, you said you were a christian were you not? Since when did being a christian involve harassing a man with no sense of direction, a terrible upbringing, severe loneliness and no wisdom whatsoever?

That is not what I implied at all.

Because you say so. I know what is happening and I know what you are saying should be allowed to happen, no matter whether you meant to argue it.

shrox wrote:
What's wrong with him making money from the very people that might enjoy "ridiculing" him?

Did I say ridicule was a bad thing or bullying was a bad thing? The inability to distinguish between the two illustrates your inability to actually do the moral thing.

shrox wrote:
He would get "bullied" if he was homeless on the street anyway, and probably beat-up, maybe even killed for sport.

Ah, the better than nothing fallacy. My old friend. Give me a proper reason, shrox. I am not a five year old.

shrox wrote:
So why don't you step up with an idea for his future then?
Why don't you stop bullying him? Why don't you show that vaunted mercy? Why don't you not suggest some perverse form of entertainment?



shrox
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14 Nov 2011, 1:37 pm

Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
Do you think homelessness would be better for him? I did not enjoy it.
Indeed. And so you supposed bullying a man is any better? Say, you said you were a christian were you not? Since when did being a christian involve harassing a man with no sense of direction, a terrible upbringing, severe loneliness and no wisdom whatsoever?

That is not what I implied at all.

Because you say so. I know what is happening and I know what you are saying should be allowed to happen, no matter whether you meant to argue it.

shrox wrote:
What's wrong with him making money from the very people that might enjoy "ridiculing" him?

Did I say ridicule was a bad thing or bullying was a bad thing? The inability to distinguish between the two illustrates your inability to actually do the moral thing.

shrox wrote:
He would get "bullied" if he was homeless on the street anyway, and probably beat-up, maybe even killed for sport.

Ah, the better than nothing fallacy. My old friend. Give me a proper reason, shrox. I am not a five year old.

shrox wrote:
So why don't you step up with an idea for his future then?
Why don't you stop bullying him? Why don't you show that vaunted mercy? Why don't you not suggest some perverse form of entertainment?


I haven't bullied him, I messaged him suggesting he explore computer animation.



number2
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14 Nov 2011, 3:59 pm

I actually find it funny some his pictures sure I won't like too hang out with that guy anytime soon.



Gedrene
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14 Nov 2011, 5:02 pm

shrox wrote:
I haven't bullied him, I messaged him suggesting he explore computer animation.
Good. Don't say it's okay to either. He hasn't brought bullying upon himself. That's like saying that someone has brought having acid thrown in their face upon themselves. It's unnecessary cruelty to bully someone.



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14 Nov 2011, 6:22 pm

Ridiculing and Bullying depends on the intent of the individual commenting on another person's behavior, and how one receives those comments

For instance, if one states another's shoes are tattered, it can be taken by another individual as either ridicule, bullying, or just an obsevation depending on the situation.

If they like wearing tattered shoes, the comment may not mean anything negative, to the person receiving it, even if the person making the comments intent was to ridicule, or bully the individual.

On the otherhand if someone just makes the observation, and the individual is constantly harrassed because he or she doesn't have enough money to buy shoes, they could see it as ridicule or bullying. This is certainly not a black and white area of understanding that one can can necessarily fully understand by watching the social interaction as a third party.

If Chris Chan's motivation to do this, is motivated to gain attention, and he gets what he wants, regardless of his condition, he may not feel either ridiculed or bullied, instead he may feel happy to get the attention.

I haven't studied the issue in depth, and doubt any of us understand the internal workings of Chris Chan's mind and how he interprets the attention he is getting by the results of his behavior whether it is intentional or non-intentional.

Is it ever morally right to bully another individual, from a human perspective? People will tell you it's not, but turn around and do it the next second, whether they realize they are doing it or not, but it's part of the same animal behavior in human's seen in almost every social animal, when there is competition for resources.

We are primates and primates definitely bully other primates to establish a pecking order. It's everywhere you look in society, subtle at times or extreme, but it's not going away as long as humans are primates, and it doesn't require any disorder to be either the server or receiver of it.

Some comedians make a living off of being ridiculed, many of them were made fun of, bullied, before their careers, and they learned to take advantage of it for themselves. More power to them, good for them, they do ridiculous things, people laugh at them, and they make a living.

If they judged the laughing they received as bullying, not likely they would go into that profession. If they couldn't deal with ridicule, not likely they would go into that profession either.

When a person says something to another person, and it is misunderstood, and that person explains the miscommunication, but the person that misunderstood it continues to insist that they understand what the person said better than they did, no matter how many times that person tries to explain it to them. Is that bullying?

Yes it could be perceived that way depending on how one perceives it. Most people would probably just ignore it and move on, others might think someone was ridiculing their intelligence, and still others might think they are being bullied by another individual.

And then if that person was questioned what their intent was to continue the point after it was explained, they could easily state that they weren't bullying, or ridiculing, they just understood what the other person meant better than they did, and mean it with every fiber of their being.

So who is morally right and who is morally wrong. It depends on whom one talks to, the server the receiver or another perceiver.

This thing about Chris Chan isn't a black and white issue, it is extremely complex; and reflective of human nature on many levels.

And it is obvious, regardless of Chris Chan's intentions or limitations, that his actions towards others could be considered as ridicule by some others, if not bullying as well.



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14 Nov 2011, 6:28 pm

While I don't agree with bullying at all, it does appear that he either has no concept of what he is presenting and the reactions to it, or, he is quite well aware and is just another attention seeker, even if that attention is negative. Unfortunately, the world seems to love a "freak show," and he is all too willing to present it for ridicule. It would be nice if he could get some help to channel things into a more positive direction.


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shrox
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14 Nov 2011, 8:53 pm

Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
I haven't bullied him, I messaged him suggesting he explore computer animation.
Good. Don't say it's okay to either. He hasn't brought bullying upon himself. That's like saying that someone has brought having acid thrown in their face upon themselves. It's unnecessary cruelty to bully someone.


The he is literally standing with a sign that says "throw acid here."

I offered him an idea. You offered me criticism.



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15 Nov 2011, 10:23 am

shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
I haven't bullied him, I messaged him suggesting he explore computer animation.
Good. Don't say it's okay to either. He hasn't brought bullying upon himself. That's like saying that someone has brought having acid thrown in their face upon themselves. It's unnecessary cruelty to bully someone.


The he is literally standing with a sign that says "throw acid here."
What? That's a just so fallacy. Exactly when has he shown gratification at all about being harassed like this? Never. So don't try and justify it poorly by said he did.



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15 Nov 2011, 10:26 am

aghogday wrote:
I haven't studied the issue in depth, and doubt any of us understand the internal workings of Chris Chan's mind and how he interprets the attention he is getting by the results of his behavior whether it is intentional or non-intentional.
Ironic, since you come to intrusive conclusions about me.



shrox
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15 Nov 2011, 12:13 pm

Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
I haven't bullied him, I messaged him suggesting he explore computer animation.
Good. Don't say it's okay to either. He hasn't brought bullying upon himself. That's like saying that someone has brought having acid thrown in their face upon themselves. It's unnecessary cruelty to bully someone.


The he is literally standing with a sign that says "throw acid here."
What? That's a just so fallacy. Exactly when has he shown gratification at all about being harassed like this? Never. So don't try and justify it poorly by said he did.


I see by your upset that you have misunderstood.



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15 Nov 2011, 1:05 pm

shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
I haven't bullied him, I messaged him suggesting he explore computer animation.
Good. Don't say it's okay to either. He hasn't brought bullying upon himself. That's like saying that someone has brought having acid thrown in their face upon themselves. It's unnecessary cruelty to bully someone.


The he is literally standing with a sign that says "throw acid here."
What? That's a just so fallacy. Exactly when has he shown gratification at all about being harassed like this? Never. So don't try and justify it poorly by said he did.


I see by your upset that you have misunderstood.
No I haven't. You're saying that he's asking for it, and I am saying that you're wrong and I explained why. You just expect to be right.

What the hell sort of conclusion is that? Another just so fallacy and moreover a cowardly ad hominem directed against me.



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15 Nov 2011, 1:11 pm

As has been said already, I really don't have much sympathy with him. He has most likely been given lots of advice how he could change his behaviour - keeping his trap shut would be a start - but he ain't interested. He's an attention seeker. Frankly, if he doesn't have the mental capacity or ability to change his behaviour then perhaps he should be in some sort of unit.

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shrox
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15 Nov 2011, 1:32 pm

Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
shrox wrote:
I haven't bullied him, I messaged him suggesting he explore computer animation.
Good. Don't say it's okay to either. He hasn't brought bullying upon himself. That's like saying that someone has brought having acid thrown in their face upon themselves. It's unnecessary cruelty to bully someone.


The he is literally standing with a sign that says "throw acid here."
What? That's a just so fallacy. Exactly when has he shown gratification at all about being harassed like this? Never. So don't try and justify it poorly by said he did.


I see by your upset that you have misunderstood.
No I haven't. You're saying that he's asking for it, and I am saying that you're wrong and I explained why. You just expect to be right.

What the hell sort of conclusion is that? Another just so fallacy and moreover a cowardly ad hominem directed against me.


He is asking for it, however, people like me realize he probably doesn't understand a key part of human interaction, so I realize he probably doesn't really understand that he is asking for negative attention. Again, I sent him a positive suggestion. What have you done?

Obviously, if we were speaking face to face, I think you would gather a more positive opinion about my manner. What is cowardly about my admitting I have upset you?