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My stance on a cure for autism

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Niall
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08 Jan 2016, 9:36 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Niall wrote:
cyberdad wrote:

I think there is considerable confusion by many in the AS community about what symptoms are a result of autism and what are a result of associated comorbid conditions. This confusion makes rational debate somewhat difficult particularly when the people speaking against a cure are themselves operating quite functionally in society. Surprise Surprise...


I would not describe myself as "operating quite functionally in society", but I flat out oppose a cure. The reasons I'm not functioning have more to do with society's response to me as "odd" and my growing fear of its members than anything inherent to AS. Society is the problem, not me.


The problem is not with society as you have the right to not want to cure yourself (that is certainly your business). What is a problem is the perception by members of the AS community that "all" people with autism should not seek a cure. Isn't that infringing the individual rights of other people to be able to choose what they want? In particular NT parents who are faced with having to choose treatment/therapy options for their children being told by members of the self declared AS community that they have no rights in treating their own autistic children. Most parents don't have the luxury of letting their kids survive on their own, we do what we must in the best interests of our kids....


We have been through this, ad fracking nauseam.

Such a cure would not be voluntary by most standards of voluntary. For that matter, making a decision to cure something that isn't a disease on someone else's behalf is utterly immoral.


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cyberdad
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08 Jan 2016, 11:48 pm

Niall wrote:
making a decision to cure something that isn't a disease on someone else's behalf is utterly immoral.

Which in a court of law would depend on what is a "disease", what is a "cure" and finally what is "moral"

Provided it's legal - At the end of the day a parent gets to decide what's in the best interest of their autistic child - not a "kangaroo court" of public opinion



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09 Jan 2016, 5:37 am

cyberdad wrote:
Niall wrote:
making a decision to cure something that isn't a disease on someone else's behalf is utterly immoral.

Which in a court of law would depend on what is a "disease", what is a "cure" and finally what is "moral"

Provided it's legal - At the end of the day a parent gets to decide what's in the best interest of their autistic child - not a "kangaroo court" of public opinion


It's not about public opinion. I don't have a disease. I have a variant neurotype. Drapetomania was a disease. Homosexuality was a disease. Gender dysphoria still is a disease.

I don't see why I should be expected to take a "cure", and I would be expected to take a "cure".

"Take a "cure" or lose your job" is not being given a choice.
"Take a "cure" or lose social security supports" is not being given a choice.
"Take a "cure" or face worse discrimination" is not being given a choice.

We've been through this. Try accepting your child for who s/he is, rather than trying to turn him/her into a fake neurotypical.


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12 Jan 2016, 2:00 am

Niall wrote:
It's not about public opinion. I don't have a disease. I have a variant neurotype. Drapetomania was a disease. Homosexuality was a disease. Gender dysphoria still is a disease.
I don't see why I should be expected to take a "cure", and I would be expected to take a "cure".
"Take a "cure" or lose your job" is not being given a choice.
"Take a "cure" or lose social security supports" is not being given a choice.
"Take a "cure" or face worse discrimination" is not being given a choice.


As I said before, your symptoms your decision

Niall wrote:
We've been through this. Try accepting your child for who s/he is, rather than trying to turn him/her into a fake neurotypical.


Not quite, teaching my child survival skills to survive in an NT world does not make her a fake NT...and as I said that's my business not yours. If my wife and I pass away I can guarantee nobody in the Aspie community is going to volunteer to look after her.

This doesn't apply to you but there is a some breathtaking Hypocrisy on this forum with people against cures who choose to "blend in" as NTs themselves...



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12 Jan 2016, 4:29 am

cyberdad wrote:
Niall wrote:
It's not about public opinion. I don't have a disease. I have a variant neurotype. Drapetomania was a disease. Homosexuality was a disease. Gender dysphoria still is a disease.
I don't see why I should be expected to take a "cure", and I would be expected to take a "cure".
"Take a "cure" or lose your job" is not being given a choice.
"Take a "cure" or lose social security supports" is not being given a choice.
"Take a "cure" or face worse discrimination" is not being given a choice.


As I said before, your symptoms your decision



You are still missing the points.

1) This is not a disease, however much you might want to see it as one.

2) Under such circumstances it would not be my decision. It would effectively be forced upon me, and upon many others.

The world then loses more diversity, and all because most neurotypicals want a monoculture.


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12 Jan 2016, 5:55 am

Niall wrote:
2) Under such circumstances it would not be my decision. It would effectively be forced upon me, and upon many others.

The world then loses more diversity, and all because most neurotypicals want a monoculture.


How would it be forced on you? are you talking about the workplace? can't you stand up for yourself to retain your true identity?



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12 Jan 2016, 5:58 am

cyberdad wrote:
Niall wrote:
2) Under such circumstances it would not be my decision. It would effectively be forced upon me, and upon many others.

The world then loses more diversity, and all because most neurotypicals want a monoculture.


How would it be forced on you? are you talking about the workplace? can't you stand up for yourself to retain your true identity?


Why am I having to repeat myself? Are you just trolling?

I wrote above:

""Take a "cure" or lose your job" is not being given a choice.
"Take a "cure" or lose social security supports" is not being given a choice.
"Take a "cure" or face worse discrimination" is not being given a choice."

How do you "stand up for yourself" in the face of threats like that, threats that NT society is perfectly capable of following through on?


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12 Jan 2016, 11:41 am

cyberdad wrote:
Niall wrote:
2) Under such circumstances it would not be my decision. It would effectively be forced upon me, and upon many others.

The world then loses more diversity, and all because most neurotypicals want a monoculture.


How would it be forced on you? are you talking about the workplace? can't you stand up for yourself to retain your true identity?


There is an abundance of wild speculation and fearmongering, here. That's all we can call it when people are crying about how the sky would fall without providing one iota of evidence for their claims.

Then there's the rather disheartening belief that "I couldn't do anything". As if there is some absolute king of the universe whose edicts cannot be challenged. Not like anyone here lives in a democratic society that obeys the rule of law, right? (sarcasm!)


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Niall
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12 Jan 2016, 11:53 am

AJisHere wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Niall wrote:
2) Under such circumstances it would not be my decision. It would effectively be forced upon me, and upon many others.

The world then loses more diversity, and all because most neurotypicals want a monoculture.


How would it be forced on you? are you talking about the workplace? can't you stand up for yourself to retain your true identity?


There is an abundance of wild speculation and fearmongering, here. That's all we can call it when people are crying about how the sky would fall without providing one iota of evidence for their claims.

Then there's the rather disheartening belief that "I couldn't do anything". As if there is some absolute king of the universe whose edicts cannot be challenged. Not like anyone here lives in a democratic society that obeys the rule of law, right? (sarcasm!)


That's a straw man. "King of the universe"? No. Massive social and economic pressure, backed up by law? Neurotypical society is based on that!


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12 Jan 2016, 12:03 pm

Niall wrote:
That's a straw man. "King of the universe"? No. Massive social and economic pressure, backed up by law? Neurotypical society is based on that!


There is no straw man here. Note the "as if". Not that it would especially matter if there was at this point.

Anyway... so what? Are you helpless? Are you incapable of advocating for yourself or working with people who can? I doubt either of these is the case. Not that you have done anything to show you would have to do this other than repeating the same thing ad nauseam and expecting it to be accepted uncritically.


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Niall
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12 Jan 2016, 12:11 pm

AJisHere wrote:
Niall wrote:
That's a straw man. "King of the universe"? No. Massive social and economic pressure, backed up by law? Neurotypical society is based on that!


There is no straw man here. Note the "as if". Not that it would especially matter if there was at this point.

Anyway... so what? Are you helpless? Are you incapable of advocating for yourself or working with people who can? I doubt either of these is the case. Not that you have done anything to show you would have to do this other than repeating the same thing ad nauseam and expecting it to be accepted uncritically.


Let's look at a nice simple scenario here.

Your society works out a "fix". It may well be the same kind of "fix" they have for depression, based on s**t science.

I tell your society where to shove your fix.

Your society tells me that if I don't take the fix I will lose my job, lose social security support and lose what little acceptance there is for me being different.

How is this a choice? How much "advocacy" does it take when you, say, won't be protected from layoffs unless you take the fix? How much advocacy does it take to stand up against more cuts in social security - because you can bet that would be contingent on your fix. How much advocacy does it take to stand up to a society that already refuses to accept difference? Your society spent years (and in many places still does) trying to cure homosexuality, for crying out loud, in the midst of discrimination and bullying.


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12 Jan 2016, 12:12 pm

A "cure" implies that someone is suffering from a disease. Or putting a pineapple slice on a ham. Autism is not a disease, it is just one place on a spectrum of neurological types. And it is nothing to be ashamed of. At least that's my stance on it.


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Niall
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12 Jan 2016, 12:15 pm

Austinfrom1995 wrote:
A "cure" implies that someone is suffering from a disease. Or putting a pineapple slice on a ham. Autism is not a disease, it is just one place on a spectrum of neurological types. And it is nothing to be ashamed of. At least that's my stance on it.


Thank you. I agree. The problem is, the neurotypicals, and some of the self-hating autistics on here, want to treat it like a disease.


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12 Jan 2016, 12:22 pm

Niall wrote:
Let's look at a nice simple scenario here.

Your society works out a "fix". It may well be the same kind of "fix" they have for depression, based on s**t science.

I tell your society where to shove your fix.

Your society tells me that if I don't take the fix I will lose my job, lose social security support and lose what little acceptance there is for me being different.

How is this a choice? How much "advocacy" does it take when you, say, won't be protected from layoffs unless you take the fix? How much advocacy does it take to stand up against more cuts in social security - because you can bet that would be contingent on your fix. How much advocacy does it take to stand up to a society that already refuses to accept difference? Your society spent years (and in many places still does) trying to cure homosexuality, for crying out loud, in the midst of discrimination and bullying.


There is very much a choice and you answered the question yourself. You know why homosexuality is more accepted now? Because homosexuals organized... protested... fought back. They challenged laws in the courts and stood out on the streets. Oh, and made alliances; though that's hard to do with the black-and-white "us vs. them" mentality I'm seeing here. They didn't just go "well, I guess that's it: I'm f****d!" and call it quits.

So how much? A lot. You're dead wrong if you think it's impossible, though; and that's the impression I get from your posts. Correct me if I'm wrong about that, but you're really giving off that vibe.

And it's not "my society". It's everyone's society. Yours too.

Niall wrote:
Thank you. I agree. The problem is, the neurotypicals, and some of the self-hating autistics on here, want to treat it like a disease.


Speaking of strawmen...


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12 Jan 2016, 12:23 pm

Niall wrote:
Austinfrom1995 wrote:
A "cure" implies that someone is suffering from a disease. Or putting a pineapple slice on a ham. Autism is not a disease, it is just one place on a spectrum of neurological types. And it is nothing to be ashamed of. At least that's my stance on it.


Thank you. I agree. The problem is, the neurotypicals, and some of the self-hating autistics on here, want to treat it like a disease.


Your welcome, and I'm glad you agree. Pfft. Neurotypicals, who need them? :roll:


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12 Jan 2016, 12:29 pm

AJisHere wrote:
Niall wrote:
Let's look at a nice simple scenario here.

Your society works out a "fix". It may well be the same kind of "fix" they have for depression, based on s**t science.

I tell your society where to shove your fix.

Your society tells me that if I don't take the fix I will lose my job, lose social security support and lose what little acceptance there is for me being different.

How is this a choice? How much "advocacy" does it take when you, say, won't be protected from layoffs unless you take the fix? How much advocacy does it take to stand up against more cuts in social security - because you can bet that would be contingent on your fix. How much advocacy does it take to stand up to a society that already refuses to accept difference? Your society spent years (and in many places still does) trying to cure homosexuality, for crying out loud, in the midst of discrimination and bullying.



So how much? A lot. You're dead wrong if you think it's impossible, though; and that's the impression I get from your posts. Correct me if I'm wrong about that, but you're really giving off that vibe.


Why should I have to fight that, just to be me? How much do I and others like me have to suffer because of it?

AJisHere wrote:
And it's not "my society". It's everyone's society. Yours too.


ROFLMAO

The autistic employment rate is around 15%. Most of us have few or no friends, few of us marry. My society, my a**e.

That's not because of something intrinsic to autism, but because of the way your society responds to us, because most humans are so narrow minded they won't accept difference to the point where they want a cure for things that aren't diseases.


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