Offer from Autism Speaks, please give your opinion

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I'm definitely anti-Autism Speaks, but I like Nicholas' ideas as long as AS actually adheres to them; hopefully Nicholas' lawyer can help there. My impression is that the organization as a whole and many posters on the message board either are ignorant on the subject of autistic adults, or deliberately choose to disregard us because our existence doesn't support the vaccine conspiracy. Hopefully exposing their membership to the voices of autistic adults will educate them. We should probably expect many people to write many autistic adults off as "not really autistic", though. A lot of them seem to have the impression that you're not "really" autistic and have no relation to "true autistics" if you can use a computer. It's quite frustrating. I would recommend that the videos feature a wide range of autistic people to avoid the problem.

I'm not sure... and even if "autism speaks" is *the* group, in Canada we had a single asperger's woman that went as far as the supreme court (and win) for a case against ABA. So "we" can win.

Also if the autist community is like the gay community in the 70s, we don't need a cure as well as gay people didn't need one!

That's what I said on my thread at :

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt52407.html

I still think that, to the point that I almost don't understand half the threads/arguments in General Discusssion anymore, or in Parents either, because they seem to be making an illness out of personalities; aspergers as a label for discriminating against people who don't live the same way.



PS: Who is Mottron, and where is the quote from? Got it ........ at:

http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/mag ... rentPage=3

Great article.

The problem with comparing autistic spectrum conditions to being gay is that being gay never prevented a person from becoming self-sufficient. Unfortunately, autism CAN (although only in the more severe) prevent a person from becoming self-sufficient. All these discussions about "rights" MUST recognize that fact. When someone's condition prevents them from becoming self-sufficient, there are real costs imposed upon society. Anyone who insists on ignoring this inconvenient fact is not going to be taken seriously.

I've heard the "gay" v. "autistic" comparison quite a few times now and, I'm sorry, as much as I am for nuerodiversity, the comparison simply is not appropriate, IMHO.

It's just another example of why the "sides" in all this are getting so firmly drawn: no one is talking about the same thing. A parent worrying if their child can ever live without them isn't thinking "acceptance." Their thinking SURVIVAL.

Stopped them having a sex life, stopped them having certain careers, stopped them holding hands with their lover, stopped them from living with their lover, stopped them from speaking honestly. Stopped them from feeling strong and whole and very often , because of the pressure, obliged them to contract heterosexual marriages to make sure weren't put in prison or subjected to forced medical treatment.

It's no accident so many homosexual men ended up living with their parents for most of their lives. They couldn't live a whole adult life.

It was very largely society's attitude towards homosexuality which thus disabled them.

And it was a question of survival. Many homosexuals did and still do kill themselves because it is so difficult to survive as a gay in society. How many couldn't go out alone in the evenings, couldn't walk home alone, because of society's loathing for these misformed, unnatural etc creatures.

Last edited by ouinon on 09 Apr 2008, 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I can't discount those problems. But none of them were ever instrinsic to the condition. Unfortunately, many of the characteristics that accompany autism CAN be disabling. To fail to acknowledge that is counterproductive. Many autistics need a lot more from society than "understanding" before they can be self-sufficient. I know my own son does.


PS - It is not my understanding that most gay men ended up living with their parents in those days. It has always been quite acceptable for a man to live alone umarried. OK, lol, EVERYONE would be busy trying to set the guy up, BUT, he didn't have to live at home.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 09 Apr 2008, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

But how much because of society's attitudes about what constitutes correct/acceptable behaviour? I think it is dangerous to even attempt to draw a line, and say "these behaviours" are intrinsically disabling. There are too many issues about human rights at stake. Being black was seen for a very long time as intrinsically disabling, being a woman even more so.

How can you distinguish between people on the autism spectrum and everyone else? At what point is it intrinsically disabling? And at what point is the disability the result of social constructs?

I'm not saying it doesn't play a large role. I'm saying that in one condition there were no real barriers inherent to an independent life, and in the other there often are.

AND there is no church or religion that condemns autism as an "unatural state" and that to have means you are "living in sin."

While there is a facet of the comparison that works, there are far more that don't, and it just isn't effective for getting all of us and our kids where we want.

There doesn't need to be; society has very effectively labelled people on the spectrum as unnatural. Science supports this.

So long as autism is labelled a disorder they will be second rate citizens, having to put on behaviours unnatural to them in order to pass. Is that your goal?

Autism is a massive challenge to the whole of society because it says there is no longer any excuse for any one not to be catered to in all their difference by society. There are no longer grounds for treating people who need physical care as suffering from anything. It is only the basis for inequality and discrimination through out society to do so, the same way the royal family in UK helps prop up class privilege.

Call people on the spectrum disordered, and you are supporting all discrimination, by extension.

Last edited by ouinon on 09 Apr 2008, 6:28 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Because everyone else who wants to write a sentence only has to practice writing, and they will acheive it. Because everyone else who wants to go grocery shopping, can plan on acheiving that without worrying what sensory overload they will experience today.

Sure, society has constructed writing, and constructed grocery stores. But it didn't do so with the intent of leaving someone out, or discriminating. It did not do so out of ignorance, or any prejudicial assumptions at all. It did so because these constructs further common goals. And they do. And that includes for the person on the spectrum who has difficulty with them.

I'm going back to work. I have a deadline.

Who is responsible for the noise and fast movement which causes overload, but the so called able-bodied needing bright flashing lights, and metal trolleys ( cars, for anyone thinking i mean shop trolleys! ) to get around in.

Why should people on the spectrum have to pay for NTs need for various life-aids?

Last edited by ouinon on 10 Apr 2008, 2:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

Because language evolved a certain way , according to the laws of natural selection, which means that it is adapted to average kind of brains, normal brains. ( language which the majority/average brain could not handle died off ). Why should people on the spectrum be disabled because language has evolved to fit the lowest common denominator?

Imagine if the only clothes available in the shops were for size 10-14 (UK), or 2- 8 ( or something US)? How pissed off you'd feel! Hang on, that's true already. Try being tall in our society, and see if you aren't literally disabled by this diversity. Is it a disorder ?

Left handedness? Very small? ..........

Last edited by ouinon on 10 Apr 2008, 2:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

Without arguing about whether cars, flashing lights, "piped smells" ( to encourage people to buy even more food ), canned music, etc further anything but NTs love of stimulation, speed , and action, I say that society knows better now though, has had the data for a while now, and yet still insists on making almost all public spaces ( work, education, shopping and leisure) intolerable and unmanageable to a significant minority, who are labelled inherently disabled or disordered if they can't deal with it.

Last edited by ouinon on 10 Apr 2008, 2:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

Ouinion, I respect your opinion, but agree with Dw_a_mom. Society's constructs have nothing to do with disabling my kid because of his neurological makeup. And, I think parents/spectrum adults should be allowed to use the semantics they choose: disease, disorder, disability. Most professionals in the Autism world call it a "disorder" and they are not contributing to the discrimination of anyone.

Also, being Autistic is nothing like being gay, woman, Black, White. All of these groups can live fully functional lives despites/because of who they are. You can't say the same for most on the Autism spectrum. I see Autism as something much more than a "social" or "personality" dysfunction. I see it more of a medical, psychological and physciological dysfunction.

Anyway, I don't want to argue, because this should be a neutral topic. We need to respect where we all fit into this spectrum and understand how we define ourselves can be very individual, based on our experiences and also level of severity.

From the looks of it, it seems that Alex and Mr. Gray's speeches and questions struck a chord with the leader of Autism Speaks.

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer... I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Suzanne Wright is well aware of this adage.

I also know that Autism isn't something that that is going to be "cured" without mucking around with genes, and once one starts mucking around with foetuses, they start promoting abortion and all autistics are eradicated.

There ya go, we're cured.

Think this thought before you go climbing into bed with Autism Speaks...

Suzanne and Bob Wright have been unable to bury the hatchet with their own daughter, what makes you think they are going to bury the hatchet with the largest, most vocal opposition to their fundraising efforts?

I cannot with any conscience align myself with ANYONE who is promoting Eugenics or a Cure for autism and am sorely afraid that IF WP were to align themselves with AS while that is on the table, I would be moving away from WP.

This is not a case of keeping OUR enemies closer, it is a case of Suzanne figuring out how to eliminate her opposition.

Find a compromise; eliminate the eugenics and cure talk and THEN let's talk.

Until then... Get stuffed I do not have a disease that needs to be cured.

Mr. Gray, if you would like stories that are not associated to personas in this forum, I am all for sending you mine in a pm or an email, but I am not posting a direct connection to me in this forum.

"East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."

If autism speaks starts painting a pretty view of autism, their inflow of cash is going to dry, they know that, I don't think they would be serious about this, it's not in their best interest.