How to change the "victim" mind set?

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Even though it's a holiday I have to go to the production location now and catch up.

Read http://www.autismcandles.com for now.

The key I believe in co-evolutionary terms to to create benefit for what others call the N.T's and the what others call the Aspies. Otherwise one feels threatened. Most people online here do not qualify for services or the employment.

I'm not personally interested in other people's services, benefits or offers of employment. Hence not really that bothered about qualifcations for it. I do my own stuff and make a living on my own terms and I enjoy doing it.

I see what you're saying but to set a criteria and develop and organization which acts as a nexus for benefits and services and then say those who fall outside that criteria created for this system are not able to define themselves in these terms anymore because my definition now requires this degree of incapacity is a little "centric" perhaps.

If you accept the primary principle that we all have different aspects and degrees of things inhibiting us and some people will benefit from you system and others not, ( which I think you agreed the principle of here) then you have to accept there are AS guys who fall outside that criteria.

If you're going for a cure then it's like the ones perhaps needing more social skills training and less medication, and a re radicalized by their life experiences and fall outside your criteria will disagree with what you are doing if you try to apply your one size fits all model to them.

I think maybe you are all talking at cross purposes and wasting energy in what could be a more efficient system.

Meme.

Maybe you'd like to take control of aspects the process as it's personal to you?

Getting rid of oppressors requires a whole different set of thinking and strategy. Not saying it can't be done, but dealing ones nearest to you is practical and fun and a good hobby .

Taking out one level of oppression maybe wouldn't solve the problem. If by oppressors you mean the system of clinicians and related professions that makes a living by claiming understanding of AS and peddling therapy then you are only describing , and focusing your aggression on one layer of the hierarchy. If you remove this layer then some other guys will try and figure out how to screw us instead.

The ones we have now are well described and understood and most seem to act as gatekeepers between the powerful groups over them in their relations with us . Some therapists are highly ethical others are not. It's a filtration that's required

Don't forget in some countries and cultures where there are no advocates for guys like us, you will get AS kids working in sweatshops , living brutalized lives and being punished for existing.

Like I said I think once we figure out how to bring the clinicians therapists to the table and have an equal share in the relationship then having them around is better than not at all, even if their only solid function is to exist as a barrier between us and currently more powerful exploitative economic groups.

Meme

We are the weapon. But having seen what I've seen of our current stage of evolution I would not want to deploy it.

Mediate on my name and the avatar. You'll get it.

I think it's more 'fun' to live a small scale loving life, personally.

I don't care if it's the ancient council of the planet Jupiter setting the criteria , if I decide I don't want it applied to me and I don't want anything from them like grants aid handouts etc and I decide to keep the only sense of identity I have that integrates my life experience and puts meaning to it, then I don't see what control or power they have to stop me doing it.

Remember systems evolve , powerful patrons in the political system turn over and social and medical policy changes, often quite rapidly, thus in time your criteria will change. Nothing is enshrined or guaranteed in anything other than the near or forseeable future.

Much of that criteria now will be defined by what is realistic to fund as a support package to groups they regard as disabled, no matter how politely they phrase this. Not everyone AS falls into this current category and it wold be convinient for fiscal reasons to develop the idea they were no longer regarded as being AS. This is how clinical definitions change and there is a well documented history in the UK of Mental Health Acts and redefinitions of mental illness as well as changing community care policy and approaches.

Currently it would seem self advocacy groups who could benefit from social learning and life skills programs have been left out of the benefits-grants loop ? They are labeling you a curebie and you do not think this is fair or called for.

Like I said I think the crux of this is you got a whole bunch of people with differing needs represented by different groups talking at cross purposes. This is a common historic political tactic by powerful political-economic groups to play one group off against another.

That's why you are talking at cross purposes and wasting each others time and energies.

Sweatleaf , fun is good. I really hope you get to do plenty of it. When you do let us know. Nice to know there's someone you've chatted to, out there, enjoying a bit of life. All adds to the big good.

Hey you know when I see my own kids doing stuff I didn't dare- it's like real warm wow!

Make me go wow! Older AS folk like going wow about stuff like this. Kinda addictive.

Meme.

Man, they are winding you up. If you are angry then you are less efficient. I know it's a serious issue, and they should know better, but if you don't bite then they cant taunt . Try learning that in the equivalent of a chain gang. ( Huh:) )

Making yourself a lightening rod for different groups doesn't help you because it annoys you for rational reasons, and it dissipates some of the energy of the other groups that could be directed for constructive purposes. They probably don't need what you've got to offer and you haven't got what they need. So what's the point in all the chaffing ? Some guys who come them you could help better, some guys who come to you they could help better.

So what you need is clear definitive model of agreed care plans that take into consideration the differing reasons for an individual's AS. That's an assessment and all the models for developing such an assessment already exist. They need fitting together.

But you can see there's cross purpose chatting going on here and it's doing no one any good?

You just can't fight a wind up with logic because part of the wind up is they will pretend not to listen even though what you say is applicable and rational answer. They are not looking for answers just wanting to provoke a response. No I don't know why people do this either, nor why they don't know why they do it either, its a mystery.

You're "entangled."

I am not arguing for any specific groups. I am not winded up either. I am learning the issues and what groups to keep clear of. This study began after pride advocates attacked my organization for no reason. They have since been dealt with and removed false information without legal action on my part. The laws are clear. Individuals have the right to cure. Saying one is insulted will only go so far which has been the primary tactic in anti-cure politics. It has been rendered much less effective.

The two can go together. Autism has many components to it. Curing one such as the inability to speak and or sensory integration impairment won't or may not cure everything subjectively to an individual but would assist with quality of life. The right to cure in potential is a human right to research for that potential. This issue is akin to the stem cell research debate and morality. The only difference here is the potential of abortion which is the primary political confrontation. Individuals living have the right to cure research and no one can argue that away.