Hiding The Truth For Popular Political Appeal

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Well first do you have any knowledge of what Autism Speaks wants to do? I don't. So therefore I don't have any rpoof of whether ASAN is wrong although it may actually be available. I need to be shown. What I do know is that Autism Speaks has numerous times referred to Asperger's in the same breath as Cancer, which is an association fallacy. Also as far as I am concerned Autism Speaks has been very disparaging about people with Aspergers.

According to other posters and several newspapers I have heard about Autism Speaks doesn't have any people with Autism in its higher offices, which is hypocritical. Furthermore they don't allow people with autism to speak in discussion groups, because it isn't 'appropriate'. Not only is this a weak excuse, it means that they actually in fact do not want to listen to us, which means that unlike ASAN there is actual proof that Autism Speaks doesn't want people to dissent against their views.


In the end you have failed to show any evidence at all that ASAN is trying to silence you at all. I am still waiting for it but until then you cannot accuse them of trying to silence you and expect to be believed.


And what are these silly political games? Is picketing a silly political game? Is saying that eugenics could occur when they have evidence that it could occur a silly political game? They aren't. This is just opinion and from what I can see there is no fact to support your side.

ci, noone here has tried to silence you for wanting cure. I haven't. Others on this forum haven't. ASAN hasn't. As I have already noted however, Autism Speaks has. It has attacked the liberty of free speech by denying autistic people the chance to talk in their meetings.


And? They are autistic. They self-advocate. And they are a network of people. Autsiam Speaks doesn't let Autistics speak.

Since you haven't given any proof of verbal abuse, despondency and political head games all you have said is that if they don't like it then they can get out. Didn't you hear? Dissent against a status quo can be patriotic.


I am sorry but if you don't have proof that people have done something, then all you are basing your views on is your feelings. Your feelings alone don't give you a right to just bad-mouth people. If you have actual proof then show me. I am still eager to hear. Until then, why should anyone be expected to take your view?

I love them.


I very much agree.


That remains to be seen.

Pride, as I've described it, has nothing do with why you are in a grouping except for the extent to which being in that group adds challenges to your life.

Gay Pride is about celebrating our humanity, value, surviving, striving, thriving, diversity, family, talent, being there for others, and seeking some joy in life. It is about being out about who we are, standing in the light of day, rather than being/feeling relegated to the shadows. It is about standing our ground and being ourselves. It is good.

Autism Pride is about celebrating our humanity, value, surviving, striving, thriving, diversity, family, talent, being there for others, and seeking some joy in life. It is about being out about who we are, standing in the light of day, rather than being/feeling relegated to the shadows. It is about standing our ground and being ourselves. It is good.


I am a gay man with Asperger's.

As far as I can tell, there are many others like me.

I would expect that approximately the same rate of heterosexuality holds for both autist and NT populations.

Sexual orientation rather than sex lifes distinguishes straights from gays and others.

Many people, of every sexual orientation, do not have sex lives with other people.


I assure you that the other-than-straight world is at least as diverse as that autists, and contains more than the straight world's percentage of people with depression, other mental illnesses, and suicides.

Both GLBT...s and autists have a great amount to offer the world - both groups have demonstrated great value to the world in addition to their humanity.

Gays aren't in the mainstream, yet, but we're getting a lot more acceptance in several countries.

The reason for this increase in acceptance is due almost entirely to Gay Pride and by people choosing to come out of the closet and be known as who they really are to their families, friends, neighbors, coworkers, and strangers. We have become real to a lot of people, and that has made all of the difference. Many straight people now know a gay person, discovered that the universe didn't end, and that most of us are good people, too.

There is no reason not to model Autism Pride after Gay Pride and give it an enthusiastic and long-term try.


Well, they certainly won't if we don't give them a chance.

I don't think anything will 'overcome' the various forms of disability presented by autism.

I do think that millions of lives can be significantly improved by tolerance and accomodation, and I think that Autism Pride has a great chance at improving understanding and relations between autists and NTs.


That is quite a set of charges. I have to say that several of them don't sound plausible.

I will be looking into Autism Speaks and ASAN in the next few months. I'll research, think things over, and post any obvservations or conclusions in a while.

In the meantime, I would appreciate it if people would quit putting down pride in all of it forms.

If you feel that you must attack ASAN, say that you dislike ASAN, that you hate ASAN. It would help if you can explain why (and there is no reason to use 'pride' in your explanation), and it would be even better if you could provide evidence to back up your claims.

I am fairly confident that I will find both Autism Speaks and ASAN to be neither all good or all bad. They appear to have different missions and somewhat different supporters. I hope that at least one of them deserves my support.

It would be very good for each of us individually and for the community if we could find better things to talk about more of the time.

These wars take far too much time and energy. Imagine what we could accomplish if put this time and energy elsewhere.

C.I Getting kind of old Mr. G. You'd make a good lawyer but people in a court room would get annoyed with your and others abilities to do what you say others do and whenever someone has an adverse opinion trying to make that opinion based on observable facts go away by not allowing it the same credibility is proof of simply silencing the opposition you don't agree with. As a self-advocate my opinions are proof ASAN is not always enjoyed for their methods by other self-advocates.

AlanTurning Said: These wars take far too much time and energy. Imagine what we could accomplish if put this time and energy elsewhere.

I have said the exact same things. It's kind of hard when others are so anti-Autism Speaks that it colors many motivations for some and to a degree anything potentially indirectly PRO Autism Speaks they hate on. I originally became interested in this subject when a few accused me of being an ASAN before I knew what the hell that was and then a few accused me of being something related to Autism Speaks. Some people live life in a divide between the two.

To me Autism Pride at times wants to hide certain public awareness accommodations in approach because they themselves don't need it like compassionate terms to be included. That to me is wrong and that is why I want nothing to do with pride. It's to self-centered on the image of autism for the otherwise very high functioning and out of touch with the needs of those with disabilities at times. My hope is they would learn to leave me be in what I do as I can and am able to confront them if they harass me anymore and give them one hell of a political fight based on my research.

You can say that again.

No, the main difference between me and you is that you don't like ASAN and I don't like people who lack evidence bad mouthing other people. My proof isn't opinion. Autism Speaks has referred to asperger's in the same breath as cancer when talking about incidence. Proof. Autism Speaks has been disparaging about people with Aspergers. Proven later in the post I made, like not allowing us to speak in their meetings.



And how is their belief actually inherently wrong? Furthermore has ASAN actually said 'say goodbye to all curism of all problems'? Or has their problem been with eugenics in the womb as said in cosntantly referred to evidence? Have you never actually considered that there may be a grain of truth in what they say ever? Ever? because if you haven't you may just learn that some parts of you are just different and need not require curing. I thought that is what you were supposedly promoting in your autism candles project. Integration. What point is integration if you believe only cure will help you?



Where is there any proof that they don't want other people to be cured? What proof is there that this is damaging?

Why do you need to accuse me of manipulating facts? Why do you need to accuse me of silencing opposition? What purpose does this serve except to hurt me? Also your opinions aren't proof of anything except that you don't like ASAN.
Given that I have only asked questions of proof and you have just said things that they did and not shown that ASAN has done them, then I only feel less convinced by your arguments. And I am sure quite a few other people would too.

Do you actually have reason to say this?

Well whatever. I aint one of them and neither is AlanTuring. We want to live free of the shadow of requiring cure. If you want things to cure then go ahead and cure them. But you can't cure what isn't broken and we don't believe we're broken. on the same hand you can't accuse me of hating cure. I am not a supremacist. I have fought supremacists as hard as I have countered anyone else on this site. So I don't hate anyone. I just want the truth and peace. Something sorely lacking on this part of the forum.


There's no such thing as an autism pride movement. There are autistic supremacists and then there's ASAN of which the real name of the movement is the Autistic Rights Movement. ARM. ARM, rolls of the tongue. Also I didn't understand what you meant by hide certain public awareness accomodations. If you could clear it up then I could get what you are saying.

You commonly do what you accuse others of doing. I present opinions based on observation and you want proof. I say look at the protest videos and what you get is unreasonable people making mountains out of mole hills anytime they can to get attention. Opinions that I have formed about ASAN existed far before I met you so please don't make it anymore personal as this is a common tactic with pride advocates. They do what they accuse others do such as exclude, evade liberties and make things up.

Well ever since the mods told me not to I haven't a single straight insult I believe. I don't think anyways you should dredge up things from the past, the past when you said that what I do to you is like what the Nazis did to the Jews. That one really does stand out. But the mods told me to forgive anything before then so I did. Also I disagree with a lot of people. Also do you have proof of ASAN bad mouthing people? Also just because something is politics.

Furthermore I am not treading on your liberty ci. I am just saying that you don't have an excuse to call ASAN anything without proof.



Again, I need proof. :/

Alright Mr. G here is what I'll do. The topic replies have gotten a mile long and changing from one subject to another is not my strong part. I will spend the time later and re-construct it in a more constructive manner. Your in for some surprises is all I can say. I will also go back to my old psycho-babbly technical speak and explain it in simple and more so complex terms. They have conditioned themselves to take things far to personally as if they are autism whereas others view it as autism happens to be the disabling barriers they experience so as to overcome.

Here are a few hints.

1. When I use psychobabble I'm not calling others crazy but understanding it in potential logical frameworks of explanation.

2. When I shorten a word and say psycho-social for instance I'm not calling people that socialize psychotics that socialize.

3. Viewing things in psychological terms allows for a myriad of potential other understandings and is not ABSOLUTE! Tolerance of others figuring out this mess is needed.

P.S

I thought it should also be stated that unless others have a real grasp of the issues such as looking at the exreme amounts of video evidences online they don't understand the complexity of the issues. Some would like liek to make out cure to be simply eugenics and while doing so ask for funding for themselves in place of cure research supporting others choices. This is the kind of political manipulation that has occurred. Removing the right to the potential cure for sensory integration, inability to speak by understanding causation and so on over mainstream issues like abortion and instead putting the money in the hands of what seems like very high functioning people that go on to get degrees is absurd and extremely unfair. Seems to me kind of like the higher realm of socially included and abled taking it from those that are far less able to sand up for their rights when these folks try to remove those potential rights of ability progress by removing funding to treat what impairs an individual.

IT makes no sense to argue with people that either refuse to see or have not been privy to the entire history which is available online to view on YouTube. ASAN is a professional organization that attempts to get my and others loyalty by asserting others attempts to help are really to kill myself if I were to be born later and curing is some kind of hate against who I am. It's just hog wash targeting my self-esteem. I just don't buy into it. Abortion politics need to be different then cure politics and the two are not the same as cure obviously is not about destroying life but improving quality of life with treatment.

It's time to go on to understand the more complex natures of perceptions and labels and intents vs. what people imagine into those intents whom have the luxury to attempt to evade treatment progress rights for the sake of the potential of an abortion test being developed. Ultimately I do not believe such a test will be developed. Causation research however can be used for both the good and what others would call evil.

I agree, we could be doing better things.

All of the facts about ASAN, were on this thread a while back, when they were trying to model the Stonewall Riots against an Autism Walk in DC. So was the photo of all five in New York, the sixth taking the picture.

When I objected to calls for violence, I was threatened with being banned from WP. They were threatening to disrupt the public activities sponsored by Autism Speaks, public awareness walks, and at the same time demanding money from Autism Speaks.

I pointed out that violence directed at political ends is called terrorism, and demanding money to stop using the tactics of violence and disruption is called extortion.

Their whole story was Autism Speaks was trying to kill us, Genetic Research, which had already passed the point where it was proven there was not a clear and simple marker for Autism, like there is for Downes.

This claim of Genocide is what they were using on Wrong Planet to incite violence. Since autistics are said to be easily lead, I thought this a crime against the community. Autism is a diverse spectrum, if any person had followed their instructions, it would reflect badly on all of us, and likely turn into a Felony Conviction.

As far as I know no one showed up to protest or disrupt the Autism Walk.

Nothing came of it but the tactics tried were ASAN being ASAN.

Wrong Planet had been a growing community for a while, we got along, discussed our various points of view, and more than a few parents and others commented that this was the the most civil and intelligent site on the web.

Along comes the ASAN Political Action Group, calling names, making threats, trying to shout down all other points of view, it was like the comments on AOL News, which do not rate the label intelligent. Everyone was wrong, they were our Leaders, we had better get in line or else.

As I recall, I did say I would be in line, with the Autism Walk, and if they wanted blood in the streets I would give them their wish. Look for the tall biker, standing behind you.

ASAN left, Ari got a political appointment, and put out a bunch of press releases.

Wrong Planet went back to being a community, which is growing rapidly.

ASAN still claims to have something to do with autism. I know of no evidence of that. Ari's ego, but nothing has developed that in any way supports autistic people, develops knowledge, or furthers our intergration into the community.

They are Tea Baggers, the Party of No, they object to everyone else, but do nothing but be disruptive. Recently they got some inturns, and since then we have been bombarded with disruption and talking points, but no content.

I reject their politics, and support the autistic, their parents and grandparents, and the fund raising that is being directed at improving the life of the autistic, now and in the future.

ASAN failed, they declared everyone their enemies, which brought our common cause closer together. Alex works with Autism Speaks, John Elder Robison is on the Science Board, they have my support, and Autism Speaks is researching what services will be needed over the long term to best support autism.

It gives us a unified front, raw numbers beyond anything that could be covered by disability, so social inclusion is the only path open.

Being in my mid sixties, I point out that autism is nothing new, and autistic adults do just vanish into life all on their own. Badly at times, but we keep trying. We do not make as much income as our IQs and education would suggest, but the vast majority of us found something to survive on. We have talents, and waste less time on social involvments.

Years ago, before ASAN, I was calling on Autism Speaks to make a study of adult outcomes. If you want the children to do better, you had better establish a base line of what adults from the pre-Dx days did. They will grow up to become us, and we can tell you what would have helped.

We are an important part of the process, so is Autism Speaks, the Parents, and we have a single shared idea that life should be better for the next generation. We are parts of a whole. Working together is the only path.

We do have a few problems that exceed the norm, people in Group Homes, in Institutions, and and some in need of 24/7 services. Single issue politics is not for us. Accomidation will not change a child's life so that instead of life in an Institution they can live in a Group Home and go to the Park, or live an independant life. That will take research, therapy, and a lot of money over a long period.

As someone who was a simi functional adult, I worked, lived, never knowing, but once I learned and looked back, I saw what autism had done. It could be better, more of us can be intergrated into a full life, and just a little education and therapy would have made a lot of differance in my life. Teaching us to be us, is much more likely than teaching the world to tolerate us.

The lives of several million people deserve a good faith best effort to do what we can.

As I said, I shall be researching both Autism Speaks and ASAN over the next few months.

Thank you, Inventor, for your summary of events.

That particular people, including Alex, are choosing to support an organization does not recommend that organization to me. I will judge it on its own merits, not on the names of its supporters.

I have a substantial distrust of any advocacy group for any cause. I have found most to be far more interested in serving their leadership than the community they claim to advocate on behalf of.

So far, both of the autism advocacy organizations that are being fiercely debated about in this forum raise an uneasy feeling in me. If I had to make a decision now without being able to take further time to investigate them, I would choose to support neither.

We will see. While I know many hope that a single advocacy organization for autism and Asperger's will be formed, grow, and be successful, I see it as more likely that internal tensions within our community will result in significant fragmentation of advocacy, including divisions between those who believe autism is a disease and those who do not, and those who are high-functioning and those who are not.

The flame wars that are occuring on this subject in these forums make the latter outcome far more likely.

Which, just so you know, reads as utterly ridiculous to many people who have witnessed just as much--if not more--than Inventor. Make up your own mind, absolutely. I just urge you to be mindful that Inventor's summary is hardly objective.

Frankly I don't have the time and energy to dismantle every single incorrect claim that is made about ASAN on this thread, but I will address a few general points.

1. ASAN has engaged in non-violent protests in the past, and will probably continue to do so in the future. So? Nonviolent protests are an expression of free speech rights and a time-honored means of expressing a political viewpoint. If you don't agree, no one's forcing you to participate, but the amount of vitriol directed at autistic self-advocates who object to the practices of certain autism organizations is staggering. If you think standing peacefully with a few signs is tantamount to violence, then your definition of violence is pretty out of whack with reality IMO.

2. All ASAN does is protest Autism Speaks. False. ASAN works on many issues affecting autistic people on both the federal and state levels. These issues include education, housing, and employment for people with disabilities.

3. ASAN is an abortion organization. Very false. ASAN takes no stand on the abortion issue one way or the other, though we do object to practices of eugenic abortion and believe that money spent doing genetic research would be much better spent elsewhere--i.e. on helping autistic people here and now. ASAN has never, ever advocated for or against any piece of legislation that relates to abortion. Show me a shred of evidence otherwise, and I'll eat my hat.

4. ASAN is a "single-issue" organization. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean, but I think it's pretty clear that this isn't true. We work on a variety of issues that affect autistic people. I also find it kind of odd that ASAN is criticized on the one hand for supposedly being "single issue," while on the other hand we're accused by some of these very same people of "combining issues." This doesn't make very much sense to me.

Like most political advocacy organizations of any stripe, there are a variety of political issues which concern ASAN.

5. There is a general idea that reading the forums will give you a good idea of what ASAN is about. Not necessarily so, and there is obviously a lot of misinformation here. I suggest reading what ASAN leaders have actually written rather than rely on summaries from people with a grudge. If there is a chapter near you, you might even try to attend a meeting. That will give you an infinitely better picture of the organization's priorities than reading this flame-ridden forum.

Don't worry, srriv345, I know that there are some people on this forum who are extremely opposed to ASAN, without any cause as far as I can tell.

Inventor treated me civilly, and I am trying to do the same in return, without commenting yet on his feelings on this topic.

I spent a few hours today watching some videos and reading some articles on ASAN. Nothing that I watched or read has worsened my impression of ASAN - I remain more favorably disposed towards ASAN than I am to Autism Speaks. I have a lot more research to do.

Your points disputing the claims against ASAN are well taken. Thanks.

"3. ASAN is an abortion organization. Very false. ASAN takes no stand on the abortion issue one way or the other, though we do object to practices of eugenic abortion and believe that money spent doing genetic research would be much better spent elsewhere--i.e. on helping autistic people here and now. ASAN has never, ever advocated for or against any piece of legislation that relates to abortion. Show me a shred of evidence otherwise, and I'll eat my hat. "

Extraordinarily false. They have accused others of eugenics in protests. All of which related to abortion politics. IT's right there and in plain view and is the point of angered hostility. They use the issue to garnish appeal on other issues. They are against "selective abortion". Plain and simple.

This makes for a strong bias on other issues concerning the image of autism.

While it's not exactly the case apples are oranges it's a matter of apples to more specific varieties of apples in comparison.