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androbot2084
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16 Jun 2012, 12:22 am

The autistic child wishes that people were more like him.



dyingofpoetry
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16 Jun 2012, 12:25 am

androbot2084 wrote:
The autistic child wishes that people were more like him.


+1 :wink:


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16 Jun 2012, 12:44 am

I think that pushing anti-cure ideas is bullying.



dyingofpoetry
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16 Jun 2012, 12:51 am

dalurker wrote:
I consider going around being anti-cure as being a bully.


So, to force an individual to change in way that may be extremely disturbing for him or her isn't bullying? I've dealt with a lot of bullys in my life and it seems tme that that's exactly what bullying is.


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16 Jun 2012, 3:28 am

I think we are making progress.

My bully was a teacher that would not accept that I cannot write cursive.

They were willing to make my life hell for as long as it took, The result was I left, refused to return, and still hate on that b***h. It has been over fifty years, but I have plans to get her in the next life. Also, anyone who reminds me of her.

Autism Speaks did seem to bring all of that together, we hate the autistic and are going to do something about them!

It was not like it was never a problem, up until 1974 people were put in Mental Institutions just for Aspergers. They did sound like they were calling for the good old days of ice water baths, and Thorazine.

They dithered between cure them, and extirminate them.

They got bombarded, we were not kind to a Eugenics Organization preaching Genocide.

In the beginning all you had to do was go to their web site and join, and say, I am Autistic... and be instantly banned.

They were guilty, and were being run by Marketing and Security.

Wrong Planet was a growing platform, and they were losing the Infowars.

The people they claimed to be helping while collecting $50 Million a year, universally hated them.

Their message of extirminating this disease was not going over well with parents who were looking for something, but wanted to keep the kid.

They had made a great marketing error, they lost the support of the people they claimed to help. They were still raking in the bucks from Corporate tax dodges, and the great uneducated, who will hold torch lit marches through the streets for lots of reasons.

Mostly due to the wonders of web searches, WP posts about how Autism Speaks has a plan to Cure the Jews, were showing up when autism speaks was searched, or cure the jews.

After a couple of years of Autism Speaks Final Solution for Autism vs the 4chan of autistics having fun insulting them, our message got through.

They tried a few outs, we are not out to kill current autistics, just prevent them from being born, so life will be perfect, like Jesus wants.

That did not go over so well, and was besides genocide, also bad science.

Genetics was their last best hope, and as the markers came in, they just kept coming, 3, then 7, then, 13, and now nearing several hundred. No simple test was going to detirmine who was autistic.

The identical twins study was the final nail, twins share everything, but not autism.

They had failed, lost their purpose, and without genocide, their life had no meaning.

There was nothing left but to support autistics, and even have some token autistic friends.

Marketing and Security had failed, and that quite Science Person that had been pushed aside by Marketing was asked their opinion. Their view sounded a lot like Wrong Planet, for being a science geek, they would fit in. 30% of people are somewhat autistic, and the world would not be a better place without them. Eradicating Grad Students and Post Docs is just wrong.

Science got promoted, Marketing got downsized, and Alex got hired to make videos that would not bring the wrath of the web. John Elder Robison was making a name as an autistic writer, and after promising not to kill him, he was invited to join, as a minor player.

The influance of Alex, John, Science, and some Ethics, transformed them. The only place for them was as supporters of the autistic.

It works, they get less complaints from the web, more insider information, and we have found common ground, we want the knowledge of autism and what might work sometimes for some people.

Out of all autistic, most do function, I did, but late in life discovered that me was what was described as autistic, where I had just thought it me. Knowing is better. Education of autistics is important. Knowing how all those other different people function is something you are not likely to discover on your own. I am a lifetime fail at eye contact, tone of voice, and body language, all of which people have written books about, and I a reader. I never knew, I should have.

The minority, low function, have been shown to improve if someone takes the time to do the right things. Also if someone will figure out the right things, write books about it, set up training courses, and do testing to quality check the product, with endless improvment.

This has become the main focus of Autism Speaks, and it is a path with heart.

From life in an Institution, to a Group Home, or to your own apartment, to being able to go out and find your way back, to become involved in life, each little step is a better life someone will live, that takes knowledge, effort, money, and the focus is there now.

Autism Speaks was born rich, put together by some top Executives, brought in a lot of money and built a machine during the growing and figuring out what we are doing phase, a Corporate Blob with connections, that ate the small fry of autism.

I enjoyed smacking them around on the web for years. When they started changing their ways I switched to supporting them. They did show the ability to change, learn, grow as people, and that the heart of their mission was to help people with autism. It took a while to learn, they did, and still are.

The past is gone, they have become the best I could think of, and are rather large, powerful, and on our side.

When objections are listened to, changes made, needs will also be listened to, and effort put forth to meet those needs. I learned how to live with autism by trial and error, learned a lot more on WP, and it is something that can be learned and taught. No cure, just a smoother ride through life, with more good times.

We have the means to do this for ourselves, and as first wave, for all the future. I wish I had been given, The Autism Handbook, many years ago.



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16 Jun 2012, 5:37 am

I got snotty in my other post, but this is a topic that pushes my buttons. It pushes other peoples buttons too, I see.

The thing is, there is a difference between the very low functioning person and those of us here. The main difference is that those of us here, even those who say they are not high functioning, can communicate. Even if they can't communicate as well with words or in person, they can sit down and type out their thoughts and opinions. The people I am talking about wanting to cure (probably treat, because I doubt there will ever be a cure) are people who cannot communicate.

It's all well and good to say "Learn to understand them" and I assume their family and caregivers do just that. But don't you think they may want to communicate with more people than that? At least give them a choice! If someone doesn't want to take the cure or treatment, they don't have to. But have the choice available for those who do.

As I said, I doubt there will ever be some drug or treatment to change our neurology, just a treatment which may cause a temporary difference. If someone doesn't want to be treated, then when given the treatment they will be able to say "No, I don't want to take any more of this, thanks anyway" or they may reserve using the treatment for certain situations. (I'm imagining something that temporarily helps a person function at a higher level, I don't know if it's ever feasable or not, but it's my scenario.)

It's up to each individual to decide if they want a cure or to be treated. To say "Curing autism is wrong, do not do it" is just as bad as saying "All autistics need to be cured". We are all individuals and should be able to make the choice for ourselves. Autism Speaks is one organization that is trying to find that cure. They are also more about low functioning people, and probably wouldn't consider those of us here to be in need of any cure.


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Sparkstorm
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16 Jun 2012, 8:12 am

dalurker wrote:
I think that pushing anti-cure ideas is bullying.


Excuse me? Being anti-cure is bullying? None of us need curing. The point I make time and time again is that even autistics at the serious low-functioning end of the spectrum are often perfectly happy in their own world. Why try to force them into the already intolerant, NT-loving society that we have to live in?

And also, I'm not being anti-cure. You can't cure something like autism, something which isn't a disease. Therefore I'm only being logical.

So I think that pushing pro-cure ideas is fascism.


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16 Jun 2012, 8:16 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
As I said, I doubt there will ever be some drug or treatment to change our neurology, just a treatment which may cause a temporary difference. If someone doesn't want to be treated, then when given the treatment they will be able to say "No, I don't want to take any more of this, thanks anyway" or they may reserve using the treatment for certain situations. (I'm imagining something that temporarily helps a person function at a higher level, I don't know if it's ever feasable or not, but it's my scenario.)

It's up to each individual to decide if they want a cure or to be treated. To say "Curing autism is wrong, do not do it" is just as bad as saying "All autistics need to be cured". We are all individuals and should be able to make the choice for ourselves. Autism Speaks is one organization that is trying to find that cure. They are also more about low functioning people, and probably wouldn't consider those of us here to be in need of any cure.

The idea of choice is a nice one, but we all know what governments are like, particularly today's self-centred, right-wing governments.
Acceptance sits to the left, not the right.


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dalurker
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16 Jun 2012, 9:33 am

dyingofpoetry wrote:
dalurker wrote:
I consider going around being anti-cure as being a bully.


So, to force an individual to change in way that may be extremely disturbing for him or her isn't bullying? I've dealt with a lot of bullys in my life and it seems tme that that's exactly what bullying is.


It's not disturbing. It's not forcing. Losing serious impairments is not disturbing. Nobody believes you.



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16 Jun 2012, 9:41 am

dalurker wrote:
dyingofpoetry wrote:
dalurker wrote:
I consider going around being anti-cure as being a bully.


So, to force an individual to change in way that may be extremely disturbing for him or her isn't bullying? I've dealt with a lot of bullys in my life and it seems tme that that's exactly what bullying is.


It's not disturbing. It's not forcing. Losing serious impairments is not disturbing. Nobody believes you.

Nobody? I reckon at least half of the autistic self-advocate community is anti-cure.

I don't consider it anti-cure though. I consider it logical. Since autism isn't a disease, logic dictates that it can't be cured.


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dalurker
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16 Jun 2012, 9:43 am

Sparkstorm wrote:
dalurker wrote:
I think that pushing anti-cure ideas is bullying.


Excuse me? Being anti-cure is bullying? None of us need curing. The point I make time and time again is that even autistics at the serious low-functioning end of the spectrum are often perfectly happy in their own world. Why try to force them into the already intolerant, NT-loving society that we have to live in?

And also, I'm not being anti-cure. You can't cure something like autism, something which isn't a disease. Therefore I'm only being logical.

So I think that pushing pro-cure ideas is fascism.


Yeah, you heard me. Some of us do need curing, and you know it. Nobody likes being cut off from the world. Saying that is a dirty lie is an affront to those suffering terribly. You're not cut off. I'm sick of your sadism. You don't speak for them. "Logic" doesn't belong to you. You're the fascist.



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16 Jun 2012, 9:46 am

Sparkstorm wrote:
dalurker wrote:
dyingofpoetry wrote:
dalurker wrote:
I consider going around being anti-cure as being a bully.


So, to force an individual to change in way that may be extremely disturbing for him or her isn't bullying? I've dealt with a lot of bullys in my life and it seems tme that that's exactly what bullying is.


It's not disturbing. It's not forcing. Losing serious impairments is not disturbing. Nobody believes you.

Nobody? I reckon at least half of the autistic self-advocate community is anti-cure.

I don't consider it anti-cure though. I consider it logical. Since autism isn't a disease, logic dictates that it can't be cured.


At least half of those self-advocates don't have impairments at all. Having low-functioning and impairments in particular is the medical condition.



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16 Jun 2012, 9:53 am

androbot2084 wrote:
What about all those neurotypicals that love to dump oil in the Gulf of Mexico ?


Dude come on now its not just neurotypicals, I am sure there are psychopaths involved.......because as someone pointed out in another thread psychopaths usually don't have much problem succeeding in life unless of course they become a serial killer and get caught. And so Imagine some of the CEOs of the oil companies are psychopaths since CEO=success in this society. Don't ask me what that stands for I just know its the people who run corporations.


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16 Jun 2012, 10:07 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
I got snotty in my other post, but this is a topic that pushes my buttons. It pushes other peoples buttons too, I see.

The thing is, there is a difference between the very low functioning person and those of us here. The main difference is that those of us here, even those who say they are not high functioning, can communicate. Even if they can't communicate as well with words or in person, they can sit down and type out their thoughts and opinions. The people I am talking about wanting to cure (probably treat, because I doubt there will ever be a cure) are people who cannot communicate.

Question is though, how much of an effort is made to communicate with them? The issue I see is maybe some of them cannot communicate verbally but if someone took the time to find away progress could be made with helping them learn verbal communication or if it works better teaching them an alternative way to communicate. If someone can communicate with a deaf and blind person I think it is possible to communicate with a low functioning autistic person. Unless someone is in a total catatonic state as in sitting there not moving and not making any sound I think there is potential for communication. I am under the impression some of these low functioning autistics who 'cannot' communicate do express various things, though others might see it as tantrums and acting out...


It's all well and good to say "Learn to understand them" and I assume their family and caregivers do just that. But don't you think they may want to communicate with more people than that? At least give them a choice! If someone doesn't want to take the cure or treatment, they don't have to. But have the choice available for those who do.

Some of them might want to communicate with more people, but I wont assume they all do. I know even I prefer not to communicate with too many people outside of the ones I know well and can trust. If they develop a cure or treatment that gets rid of autism, sure people should be free to use it.......but it should not be forced. when it comes to the ones you say cannot communicate though or children how do they give consent for such things though?


As I said, I doubt there will ever be some drug or treatment to change our neurology, just a treatment which may cause a temporary difference. If someone doesn't want to be treated, then when given the treatment they will be able to say "No, I don't want to take any more of this, thanks anyway" or they may reserve using the treatment for certain situations. (I'm imagining something that temporarily helps a person function at a higher level, I don't know if it's ever feasable or not, but it's my scenario.)

Do the non-verbal autistics or autistic children get any say?

It's up to each individual to decide if they want a cure or to be treated. To say "Curing autism is wrong, do not do it" is just as bad as saying "All autistics need to be cured". We are all individuals and should be able to make the choice for ourselves. Autism Speaks is one organization that is trying to find that cure. They are also more about low functioning people, and probably wouldn't consider those of us here to be in need of any cure.


I agree with that.....and I don't care about all the moral/emotional arguments so much. Its just there is not a cure, so I feel the energy spent on hoping for one could be better spent on helping improve the lives of people who have autism by possibly trying to improve their environment I mean their life does not have to suck because they have autism. At least give them a supportive environment and the freedom to possibly enjoy whatever hobby or interest they might have.


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16 Jun 2012, 10:20 am

dalurker wrote:
dyingofpoetry wrote:
dalurker wrote:
I consider going around being anti-cure as being a bully.


So, to force an individual to change in way that may be extremely disturbing for him or her isn't bullying? I've dealt with a lot of bullys in my life and it seems tme that that's exactly what bullying is.


It's not disturbing. It's not forcing. Losing serious impairments is not disturbing. Nobody believes you.
I take no formal stance on the cure issue at this time.let me make that clear.
on this thread people have called advocating for cure bullying and advocating anti cure as bullying

Niether one is such and neither is a rules violation accept maybe implying that anyone who disagrees with one self is somehow bullying.

expressing political viewpoint in a non atackative manor is not in anyway bullying and reading W.P's rules for posting is a good start before one makes accusations of cyber abuse against other member.contrary to popular belief we are not the peoples republic of wrongplanet and we will protect free exchange of ideas unless there is a compelling reason not to do so


@dalurker.
you were not the only one who used the bullying term and my post was not directed at you in anyway,your quote was the most recent.no intended hostilities toward you,cordualy and respectfully, VT


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16 Jun 2012, 12:16 pm

There is no such thing as high functioning autism as far as autism speaks is concerned. Although I can talk I am regarded by society as a ret*d and a loser who is unable to hold down a job and basically a leach upon society.