Psychology Today: Biased Asperger's Article!

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Tarantella, I love your style and the way you think. You are awesome.

I just looked up his yelp and it seems like he has a mostly positive rating.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/marty-nemko-oakland

Good points: check

There are people arguing in the comments under that article that autism is not a disability, that it is a difference. Sorry it may be a difference, but it's still a disability. Whether it is classic autism or high functioning ASD almost always has a major impact on people's lives. The unemployment and underemployment numbers for people on the spectrum are truly horrific. There are many people who have no problem proudly taking on the label of Asperger's or autism yet for some reason want to completely deny that it is by definition a pervasive developmental disability. Having pride and positive self-esteem is great, but not if they are built on a foundation of denial.

Well you know I can't deny these facts. Do you believe the majority of us are incapable of employment whatsoever except for sheltered workshops? Can the majority of us be made employable whatsoever in your opinion?

Honestly, I want to work somewhere in which I can be myself, pursue my own dreams, and spin my own straw into gold and I don't have to twist and contort myself to fit some paradigm in which I have to pretend to be something I'm not. Do you understand?

Maybe in the factual sense he is right but he has this air of superiority about him that turns me off. This is my issue with a lot of people in American society. They project this smug and superiority attitude about themselves and I simply do not vibe with that. I felt disrespected. I really do try to look at the facts over the emotional content but sometimes it is difficult for me to do so.

In fact, I don't vibe with our American hustling culture whatsoever. Do you get where I am coming from?

This is why I feel I have to go my own direction which is what I'm attempting to do. I do not feel I could put up with someone who talks to me like I'm s**t. I would try but it would be difficult. I would not vibe with that and I know I would not vibe. I don't vibe with the whole projecting confidence, hustling, team-player type atmosphere in which one is forced to play sophistry games and be dishonest. His logic maybe sound but honestly I don't vibe with Marty.



What is wrong with this anyway?



Maybe I don't find their humor, humorous?



Disjointed? By who's standards? Who is the ultimate definer of what is considered being on point or not?



True, because we don't fit a certain mold put forth by society.



America is a Christain nation right? This is to American society. Why not be Christ-like and loving and help those with poor eye-hand coordination see a physical therapist and put up your own money to help mitigate this. Oh Noes, it would be considered a hand out.

If this doesn't impair one in doing the job money then why care?



and we're to be punished??? Why?



I don't either.

What's wrong with having unusual habits unless they present a danger to others or yourself? If one did scavenge through garbage cans like that and ate food scraps I would be concerned with that and with them. That is a health hazard.

Some things about autism like executive function deficits are true disabilities. Being horrible at organizing is true lack of skill that causes poor functioning in any situation.

Other things about autism like working better in small groups, by oneself, or in quiet areas do not cause poor functioning by themselves. People whose brains are wired that way function poorly in society because we are a small minority and the vast majority rejects this. That is the "difference" wording that the neurodiverse movement is trying to point out.

I don't scavenge through garbage but I still hear people complain all the time about our throwaway society. Yet most of us consider somebody doing something about it and there own needs by "dumpster-diving" "wrong" . That is a moral judgement by us that for the most part nothing to do with skills needed by employers.

Yeah the reviews were mostly positive. From what I see the Mr. Nemko's style will work for most and his blunt style is what a lot of people who are stuck or lazy need to hear. But the same style is toxic for most people with disabilities. He has in some form realized this and went back to what he is familiar with. If one is not started I will start a petition on change.org calling for article removal.

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 22 May 2014, 6:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.

^^This is the main thing I would like to work on and I believe we autistics should work on. This is my top priority. I agree here. Executive dysfunction sucks and this is one thing about my autism I would love to diminish,



Agreed



Agreed!



Please! Go Ahead!

I think it's great this Nemko fool has articulated what many Neurotypicals think. I think it's even better that people on the spectrum have piled on to him and torn him to pieces in his comment thread.

Anyone who posted a critical comment on his blog, give yourselves a pat on the back!

Dumpster diving isn't something that's exclusive to those on the spectrum see: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... ody%20link

This form of dumpster diving seems like a good idea. I'd be too squeamish to try it though!

The reviews are mostly positive because they're mostly put-up jobs. That's why so many of them are hidden -- they don't meet yelp's criteria for "real". Guy's a con artist, that's also why he's so prickly.

I looked up the term put-up jobs. How do you figure he is being deceptive?

Yeah, I get it. Because that's how I feel too. But let's talk reality for a minute. It's not about feelings. I have gone to some of the AACEND meetings in San Francisco that revolve around employment. The people that attend these meetings are high functioning, but visibly have some serious issues. These are not people that have a great career, a loving spouse and children, in 2 great kids. The people who attend these meetings, the ones that Marty has met, have chronic employment problems and life problems in general, specifically because of ASD. These are people who don't have the luxury of spinning their own straw into gold because they are desperate to get any sort of work in order to have a roof over their heads and food in the stomach. Maybe you and a lot of other people on the spectrum would find the types of jobs that Michael at AASEND is finding for people on the spectrum demeaning but he is trying to find the types of jobs that these people can get into immediately so they at least have some sort of income to live on. The vast majority of people in the United States hate their jobs and do it simply because it pays the bills. my sister is as NT as it gets and she hates her job. as for sheltered workshops, I don't know. I do know that all of the data available suggests that there is a 60 to 80% unemployment rate in ASD. I do know that most people on ASD cannot hold normal jobs. I mean, you just can't deny that. Does that mean that the 60-80% of us who are unemployed can only work it shelter workshops? Maybe. From what I have read we have a higher unemployment rate than blind people and people with cognitive disability. considering the rate of unemployment in our community is his comments so offensive? I know people are going to comment to this and say well that's because we are not accepted by society. well no s**t. why would society change for us? We represent the poorest 1% of the population. How do you treat Asperger's? You teach people how to integrate into society.

You know, a lot of people here are offended by what Marty wrote, but they have no idea what his experiences have been in terms of working with autistic people. I'm sitting here reading the comments under that psychology today story and it's full of a bunch of people saying to the effect, "I'm autistic and I have a great career and a great life, don't talk about us as though were disabled". Well I'm glad for them. If they have a great life, but they represent a minority of people on the spectrum. Why are people pissed off at Marty and saying nothing about the people who try to portray the entire ASD population as not needing help? I'm thinking ' guys, most of us are fighting a desperate battle for services that we desperately need while you're trying to convince people that life is just peachy on the spectrum'. Man, I just don't know how high functioning some of these commenters are, but if you're not rocking ,and flapping your hands, and walking on your toes, and making odd noises, and are able to get a job, and can hold a job more than a few months, you are probably not the person that the psychology today article was addressing any way. I guess what really pisses me off the most about this entire whatever it is regarding this article is that it seems to me the most high functioning people are just brushing aside lower functioning people as if they just don't exist. Is autism a disability? f**k yes, it is. Is it sometimes ugly? f**k yes, it is. But it seems to me that people just want to sweep the ugly under the rug and pretend autism is just glitter, creative thinking, misunderstood genius, and rainbows.

Yes, I get it. Everybody wants fulfillment in life. Everyone wants her dream job and everyone wants a perfect spouse. But if you're about to lose your home or your apartment, or you cant afford food, or clothes, you take what you can get. Was Marty talking about menial jobs for people on the spectrum? Yes, he was because he hooked up with an organization whose leader will not pass getting an autistic person a job as a file clerk, even though that person may be way overqualified for the job. Marty's experience with people on the spectrum as related to jobs is with people who have moderate to severe impairment (yes, people, high end of the spectrum can be moderately to severely impaired) and are often in a crisis situation. And believe me when I tell you that the people that go to AASCEND for support are happy when they get jobs as file clerks, proofreaders, data entry clerks, etc,. It often means that they don't become homeless or it's a step towards independence for them.

As for someone digging out the garbage can for scraps of food... You go to any city anywhere in the world and you will see people digging through garbage cans for scraps of food. So this guy mentions a story he was told about someone on the spectrum digging that through a dumpster for scraps of food and some horrific insult? No big deal if you're just plain homeless, but if it's ASD 'Them's fighting words'?

In the end, what really matters is that this guy didn't try to intentionally insult or hurt anyone. He's not one of those guys that call us psychopaths and baby killers after some shooting is reported in the news. But whether you like his personality or not he has clearly helped people, whether those people were on the spectrum are not doesn't really matter to me, as long as he is doing good for people. I will tell you he has had some clients on the spectrum and he taken the initiative to connect with AASCEND. The sad thing is, this was an opportunity for us as a community. If people had politely educated him in the comments he would have been better for it and maybe taken a more active role in raising awareness and finding jobs for people on the spectrum. What is wrong with telling someone they are misinformed and then educating them? What is wrong with giving somebody a chance to learn. But what happened was most of the comments were so nasty that they immediately closed all doors and minds. This was so self-destructive. Is this what our community is? Just being nasty to anyone that says anything that can be taken as remotely offensive? Is that how we want to present ourselves to society? What's even worse is that people have taken it beyond psychology today. They are going to the yelp and his website. People are trying to destroy this man's career. For what? not only are they not educating him they are trying to ruin him. Seriously, what the f**k!? He didn't even deserve the nastiness of the comments on psychology today, let alone people trying to undermine his ability to provide for his family.as for his comment about employers would be turned off by the comments being left him, I agree. We often talk about what a disservice autism speaks does to our community, but the thing is they spread their BS with honey, while in this case and some others we try to beat the truth into people with the stick. Society seized the honey in the stick 1st. They make a judgment call based on the honey and the stick 1st. they say to themselves, while autism speaks is very reasonable and they say to themselves while these people leaving comments are kind of scary. Whether it's right or wrong, that things often work in this way it is what it is and we have to be cognizant of that. Do you think the aggressiveness and nastiness many of the comments on that article would make the NT people reading them more or less likely to believe in the nasty stereotypes that exist about us? I believe the answer is more. As a community we have to learn to become aware of how we present ourselves to society because that is important to people who make up the majority society. as a community we have to learn to take these opportunities to convert the uninformed into allies rather than pushing them into becoming bitter against us. As a community and a minority segment of the population we don't have numbers on our side, we don't have money, we don't have political power. The only thing we have to sway society is our words. If we continue to present ourselves in the way of those nasty comments ours is a lost cause. Do you get where I'm coming from?

I don't have a career, or a family, or any friends, for that matter. You guys are the closest thing to friends and family that I have. I will defend my brothers and sisters on the spectrum without hesitation, but I don't see what happened with that psychology today article as people defending our community, I just saw it as self-destructive to our community. After how this whole thing went down I haven't felt so alone in a long time.

Time to stop talking and start doing something about this
This is a online petition I created to have Psychology Today remove this blog. I myself do not have a big enough network for this to be effective but maybe with enough of us together can get somewhere. If you are afraid to use your real email create one specifically for Autism related issues and use that. While I frankly have my doubts about this but I know just more talking about this will accomplish nothing. I am using ipetition instead of change.org petition software because change.org is associated with the progressive movement and that might turn off for conservative/tea party autistics or distract them from the issue at hand for them

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/peti ... -a-hurtful

A lot of the lyrics to this old hair metal song seen relevent.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H41sseCNILI[/youtube]

Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 22 May 2014, 6:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Reminds me of the old saying: "With friends like him, who needs enemies?"

And I think the same of his defenders and sympathisers.

Sorry about that..

Rascals, I feel like I'm alone to in what I've been trying to get across. You said it yourself. Most people are unhappy with their jobs and to add possibly their lives as well? Why is this? Why are so many people unhappy? If this is true then my question is this what about our living conditions in America is making people so unhappy? What if the prevailing culture of America that we Autistics are expected to conform to is dysfunctional?

Let's say we are to conform, that means we're to pretend to be something we're not. We're to put on this front of American style NT that we can never be? How can we be honest with each other and ourselves if we are to live an absolute lie? This is greater than autism, autism rights and obtaining services. How can one be virtuous and live with virtue if one is forced to live a lie?

The American culture tells people to be themselves which really means to be the self that society wants one to be. This is what is demanded today by the American culture. To ask people to conform is to live a lie and to commit deceit. To ask people to pretend everything is fine when it is not is the height of insanity.

You like many others have given me the same lecture. Quit being an idealist. Quit fantasizing. Get into the real world. Life is not fair. I am going to tell you the same thing I have told others. The only constant in existence is change. Our society is but a blip on lifespan of the entire earth. Ancient Rome existed around 2000 and something years and they were a great power of their day. Some of them probably had the same attitudes but where are they now?

Where will America be 2000 years from now? Will our statues and monuments be buried in the sand and/or worn from the withers of time? The point is things change. Ideas change and there is improvement and refinement to ideas. Our real world with its ideas is but a minor blip in the sea of time and space. Little under 2000 years ago give about 2-3 centuries or so we had a man by the name of Socrates. He was told to conform and he said no. He questioned people's ideas and their reasoning. You say we must conform. You say we must play the game? Why must one play the game especially if it is not virtuous to play? The man paid with his life. He was made to take hemlock. Western philosophy came from him and we have benefited greatly because of him.

You say I must play the game? I ask you why? Why is the game set up the way it is?

You say conform. I say question authority, think for yourself, and ask questions to make society better.

I will ask you my questions.

What is freedom? How are we free if one has to goosestep to the prevailing culture 100% without question?

What is virtue? When does conforming to a prevailing culture become a vice instead of a virtue?

How is Marty truthfully helping anyone? How does he come to believe this? Is he helping his clients to live a life with virtue, goodness, and honesty? Is he helping them or harming them?

If the clients of this organization is receiving services and no improvement has been made then wouldn't it be that this organization provides a not so quality product? It's like an auto dealer selling a lemon and the dealer blames the customer.

If a good chunk of the population of the USA are unhappy then why don't they change the societal conditions and beliefs. This is what OWS tried to do and people trashed them. People believe in the power of positivity right? Are they not being pessimistic in their beliefs? Why is it that one is supposed to be optimistic and pessimistic over here but not be allowed to be optimistic and pessimistic in another sense?

Is the culture of a given society ever flawed in anyway?

Why is one not allowed to blame any external circumstances including society no matter the iteration we're living under? Why is blaming outside external entities a vice and ignoble in all circumstances?

Are the prevailing cultural beliefs of America open to question and scrutiny?

Can you and the rest of society address the points I've written about in my articles?

http://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.c ... /attitude/
http://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.c ... ompromise/
http://whyifailedinamerica1.wordpress.c ... ns-fruits/

Rascals, I will ask this from a business perspective. I assume you've been putting your time by going to this organization. Have you had to pay any cash to this organization or are the services free? Either way you've had to give something to them. What has been your return on investment by going? How long have you been going? Have you received bang for your buck in both time and money? If not, then why go?

What has been the client's return on investment?

Has this center or organization been able to find any of their clients jobs and has this organization been able to enable their clients to keep jobs? What has been the total outcome of this organization's services for their clients?

It's like taking your car to an auto mechanic who is not able to fix your car. Why not go to a different auto mechanic? My conclusion is this organization is proving shoddy services.

How does the other staff besides Marty feel about this? If they believe the same thing then what is happening is known as the Pygmalion effect. Do they have a preconceived bias? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmalion_effect

Does the staff even believe in their vision and mission and if not then they're just going through the motions and the customers are wasting their time and would be better served elsewhere?

Last edited by cubedemon6073 on 22 May 2014, 7:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

Out of interest I just googled "Should I employ someone with aspergers?" and it was all fairly positive (Im in the uk). Here is one example of the articles a potential employer would see...

Link- Guardian Aspergers employment article

Its not absolutely perfect in content (what is?) but it proves there were better people out there who could've written the PT article. I dont think marty is intentionally being horrible, he is just ignorant and has been around people who still use this sort of un-politically-correct language and have these archaic 'lost cause' views about disability.

I'd speculate that he grew up surrounded by business-minded people with a lot of connections/money, and that his main care-givers were people who saw money-making as the be-all-end-all of existence and never considered anyone else's happiness, or the good of the human race for that matter. His connections and subsequent education got him this job. I'm guessing this because he clearly has no natural talent in writing in this way- he should stick to helping his money-hungry people-hating friends cause more misery to their employees for the sake of greed and profit. He clearly should not be informing anyone about autistic or disability issues, and he has now realised this so lets leave him alone now.

Some of the comments have not helped his education in this area, but it was psychology today's mistake for employing him in an inappropriate role (how ironic). I'd be very annoyed if i'd paid for a life coach and got this guy, with his apparent lack of moral responsibility. He would be the template for how NOT to live my life. If anyone was offended by something I'd written, I'd be mature enough to apologise first, then to calmly explain my intentions and reasons. If they still disagreed then thats their prerogative, but I haven't given them more ammunition or upset anyone intentionally. This is what I would coach someone to do in his situation.

By the way, I do think AS/autism is just a difference in developing connections in the brain, but I think it becomes more of a disability because we have to attempt to live in this kind of society. For example, when we were hunter-gatherers someone born with my genetics, for example, may have few/no 'symptoms'. There wouldn't be as many ridiculous social rules to follow, so we'd have a chance to remember the ones we needed, less man-made/enforced pollutants to exaggerate immune/sensory problems, and our talents would be seen as valuable because our inventions and pattern-spotting would be seen as useful rather than dismissed as the ideas of a madman. We need space to be able to find our own ways of doing things- a less structured world.

AlienorAspie, you see the light!

I don't think there is a need for that really. Nemko has said he'll stop writing his ignorant rubbish about Autism, and he's mentioned the neurodiversity movement in his reply to the criticisms. He clearly comes off poorly in the exchanges with his critics, and the articulate replies to contradict somewhat the sterotype of people on the spectrum being lost causes.

I say, keep his post up there!



I agree with this 100%. It always annoys me when people make that argument on this forum. It's like they've been living under a rock for past 50 years. Haven't they noticed the massive advances that black people, gay people and women have made in this time.



You can't build a bridge half-way. People on the spectrum can make all the effort in the world, but it not going to be any use if society doesn't change for us. I think society's refusal to accomodate us is partially responsible for the shocking unemployment figures.

Everyone, please take a look at this. Dr. Berman is right about the things he says. We live in a culture that is dysfunctional and is a hustling based, business oriented culture. This is what I'm talking about right here. It isn't about whether we can or can't play the game, it is whether we should play it. Is it moral to conform ourselves to a system and culture that is dysfunctional in of itself? This cultural has no substance to it and it is a dog and pony show in which one has to put on this phony and contrived act all to make the top 400 richer. When do we say no? When do we say no to comforming in a decrepit culture in which everything is considered a commodity in which they demand you conform and contort yourself to something you're not. When do we improve ourselves and our children not to conform to fake and hate-mongering culture but to improve ourselves to live authentic lives with meaning. That should be the goal of improvement for ourselves. It isn't just treating autism but improving ourselves to be greater, more authentic, more moral, more loving and more virtuous. We need to improve ourselves and make our selves greater so we can help those who are abused, impoverished and those who have no voice.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Kli6ERCfZU[/youtube]

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