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ci
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22 Aug 2011, 12:52 pm

You ego keeps rambling as well but your immune because you were the first to hate what is not for you! A double standard on your part and why your foot is so crammed up your mouth you have turned blue in your posts. The method of taking leadership and going with it may seem like a big ego but the more you dis-promote leadership the less progress which keeps others down and for what agenda? Your not even diagnosed and claim not to be disabled. In the true sense you are not what the project is for and come across as a hater with nothing else better to do then hate on it as it's clearly not for you in two ways. Your not disabled and your not even diagnosed!


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AlanTuring
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22 Aug 2011, 4:20 pm

ci wrote:
Your not disabled and your not even diagnosed!


You know, ci, I've really had it with your ignorant judgements about who is/isn't disabled and by your presumption that a formal diagnosis is essential (or even desireable).

You haven't got a clue what any of us have gone through in our lives. Period.

Not all of us have gone through a formal diagnostic process (due to age, expense, likelihood of receiving any benefit from the process, anticipated difficulty in finding a sufficiently informed specialist). It doesn't make sense for all of us to seek a diagnosis. A formal diagnosis has nothing to do with whether we are autistic or have Asperger's.

Your opinions on these subjects are not only based on ignorance and are unwelcome, they are freaking offensive!

Keep this sort of garbage to yourself.


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ci
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22 Aug 2011, 5:46 pm

AlanTuring wrote:
ci wrote:
Your not disabled and your not even diagnosed!


You know, ci, I've really had it with your ignorant judgements about who is/isn't disabled and by your presumption that a formal diagnosis is essential (or even desireable).

You haven't got a clue what any of us have gone through in our lives. Period.

Not all of us have gone through a formal diagnostic process (due to age, expense, likelihood of receiving any benefit from the process, anticipated difficulty in finding a sufficiently informed specialist). It doesn't make sense for all of us to seek a diagnosis. A formal diagnosis has nothing to do with whether we are autistic or have Asperger's.

Your opinions on these subjects are not only based on ignorance and are unwelcome, they are freaking offensive!

Keep this sort of garbage to yourself.


If you wish to interfere with formal, constructive and successful advocacy with hateful rhetoric seeking to dis-promote it such as what I've accomplished then you ought to be diagnosed at very least. However if you are self-integrated and very high functioning still my advocacy does not concern you but those whom cannot on their own. The very high functioning attacking efforts and advocates who help myself and others like me are considered a whole different segment of the autism population. Even so you are not officially diagnosed and have no public credibility. IT would be ignorant for me to take your word for it. If you want to train me to be naive and gullible I can seek another teacher and do not have to take lessons from you.


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The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com


AlanTuring
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22 Aug 2011, 6:11 pm

ci wrote:
If you wish to interfere with formal, constructive and successful advocacy with hateful rhetoric seeking to dis-promote it such as what I've accomplished then you ought to be diagnosed at very least. However if you are self-integrated and very high functioning still my advocacy does not concern you but those whom cannot on their own. The very high functioning attacking efforts and advocates who help myself and others like me are considered a whole different segment of the autism population. Even so you are not officially diagnosed and have no public credibility. IT would be ignorant for me to take your word for it. If you want to train me to be naive and gullible I can seek another teacher and do not have to take lessons from you.


Quit trying to derail the point - I am correcting a monster, not interfering with an 'advocacy'.

Your behavior is awful. Stop it.


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Gallowglass
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22 Aug 2011, 6:36 pm

ci wrote:
AlanTuring wrote:
ci wrote:
Your not disabled and your not even diagnosed!


You know, ci, I've really had it with your ignorant judgements about who is/isn't disabled and by your presumption that a formal diagnosis is essential (or even desireable).

You haven't got a clue what any of us have gone through in our lives. Period.

Not all of us have gone through a formal diagnostic process (due to age, expense, likelihood of receiving any benefit from the process, anticipated difficulty in finding a sufficiently informed specialist). It doesn't make sense for all of us to seek a diagnosis. A formal diagnosis has nothing to do with whether we are autistic or have Asperger's.

Your opinions on these subjects are not only based on ignorance and are unwelcome, they are freaking offensive!

Keep this sort of garbage to yourself.


If you wish to interfere with formal, constructive and successful advocacy with hateful rhetoric seeking to dis-promote it such as what I've accomplished then you ought to be diagnosed at very least. However if you are self-integrated and very high functioning still my advocacy does not concern you but those whom cannot on their own. The very high functioning attacking efforts and advocates who help myself and others like me are considered a whole different segment of the autism population. Even so you are not officially diagnosed and have no public credibility. IT would be ignorant for me to take your word for it. If you want to train me to be naive and gullible I can seek another teacher and do not have to take lessons from you.


"formal, constructive and successful advocacy?"="Buy a candle for the poor unfortunate autistics?"

Forget it mate and pull the other one!



ci
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22 Aug 2011, 7:25 pm

Gallowglass wrote:
ci wrote:
AlanTuring wrote:
ci wrote:
Your not disabled and your not even diagnosed!


You know, ci, I've really had it with your ignorant judgements about who is/isn't disabled and by your presumption that a formal diagnosis is essential (or even desireable).

You haven't got a clue what any of us have gone through in our lives. Period.

Not all of us have gone through a formal diagnostic process (due to age, expense, likelihood of receiving any benefit from the process, anticipated difficulty in finding a sufficiently informed specialist). It doesn't make sense for all of us to seek a diagnosis. A formal diagnosis has nothing to do with whether we are autistic or have Asperger's.

Your opinions on these subjects are not only based on ignorance and are unwelcome, they are freaking offensive!

Keep this sort of garbage to yourself.


If you wish to interfere with formal, constructive and successful advocacy with hateful rhetoric seeking to dis-promote it such as what I've accomplished then you ought to be diagnosed at very least. However if you are self-integrated and very high functioning still my advocacy does not concern you but those whom cannot on their own. The very high functioning attacking efforts and advocates who help myself and others like me are considered a whole different segment of the autism population. Even so you are not officially diagnosed and have no public credibility. IT would be ignorant for me to take your word for it. If you want to train me to be naive and gullible I can seek another teacher and do not have to take lessons from you.


"formal, constructive and successful advocacy?"="Buy a candle for the poor unfortunate autistics?"

Forget it mate and pull the other one!


That's why you have no respect from me because you don't respect me. The public cannot enforce organizations to employ people with autism when they need help being employed. Instead they can support facilitated employment like candle work that employs us and it also funds the PR for the inclusion model. Mainstream employment for everyone with autism to get the most employed as possible including individuals with DD in general will take some creativity to optimize. In 5 years I've not made a dime myself from what I do. Your poor ego nonsense seems to stem from quite basic hatred of the human condition and you have no dignity for equal opportunity people with autism choose to be employed by. A very cold hearted individual that is not in the best interest of progress but as a very high functioning person only about his personal self-image and autism.

I am stronger then the likes of you in my mind and heart. The public will help us achieve reasonable attempts to be gainful in more then one way. If you don't like it take a hike you cold hearted hater. I cannot wait to face the likes of you. It will be the best of the awareness fight yet.


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The peer politics creating intolerance toward compassion is coming to an end. Pity accusations, indifferent advocacy against isolation awareness and for pride in an image of autism is injustice. http://www.autismselfadvocacynetwork.com


Gallowglass
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22 Aug 2011, 8:03 pm

ci wrote:
Gallowglass wrote:
ci wrote:
AlanTuring wrote:
ci wrote:
Your not disabled and your not even diagnosed!


You know, ci, I've really had it with your ignorant judgements about who is/isn't disabled and by your presumption that a formal diagnosis is essential (or even desireable).

You haven't got a clue what any of us have gone through in our lives. Period.

Not all of us have gone through a formal diagnostic process (due to age, expense, likelihood of receiving any benefit from the process, anticipated difficulty in finding a sufficiently informed specialist). It doesn't make sense for all of us to seek a diagnosis. A formal diagnosis has nothing to do with whether we are autistic or have Asperger's.

Your opinions on these subjects are not only based on ignorance and are unwelcome, they are freaking offensive!

Keep this sort of garbage to yourself.


If you wish to interfere with formal, constructive and successful advocacy with hateful rhetoric seeking to dis-promote it such as what I've accomplished then you ought to be diagnosed at very least. However if you are self-integrated and very high functioning still my advocacy does not concern you but those whom cannot on their own. The very high functioning attacking efforts and advocates who help myself and others like me are considered a whole different segment of the autism population. Even so you are not officially diagnosed and have no public credibility. IT would be ignorant for me to take your word for it. If you want to train me to be naive and gullible I can seek another teacher and do not have to take lessons from you.


"formal, constructive and successful advocacy?"="Buy a candle for the poor unfortunate autistics?"

Forget it mate and pull the other one!


That's why you have no respect from me because you don't respect me. The public cannot enforce organizations to employ people with autism when they need help being employed. Instead they can support facilitated employment like candle work that employs us and it also funds the PR for the inclusion model. Mainstream employment for everyone with autism to get the most employed as possible including individuals with DD in general will take some creativity to optimize. In 5 years I've not made a dime myself from what I do. Your poor ego nonsense seems to stem from quite basic hatred of the human condition and you have no dignity for equal opportunity people with autism choose to be employed by. A very cold hearted individual that is not in the best interest of progress but as a very high functioning person only about his personal self-image and autism.

I am stronger then the likes of you in my mind and heart. The public will help us achieve reasonable attempts to be gainful in more then one way. If you don't like it take a hike you cold hearted hater. I cannot wait to face the likes of you. It will be the best of the awareness fight yet.



I am trembling in my boots :D

Why don't you find a new hobby?
Tell you what, why don't you attempt to become the World Hide and Seek Champion of take up single handed round the world yatching?

"basic hatred of the human condition?": no, only very specific members of the human race namely hippocrits and charlatans. If the cap fits.................



ci
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22 Aug 2011, 8:04 pm

I am out in the open whenever you and the likes of you quite hiding and being victim of society when they care.


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Gallowglass
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22 Aug 2011, 8:22 pm

ci wrote:
I am out in the open whenever you and the likes of you quite hiding and being victim of society when they care.


Eh? Are you trying to say something or chewing a brick?



ci
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22 Aug 2011, 8:40 pm

I think I've made my point. All you have left is those kinds of remarks and attempts to instill compassion is itself intolerance. Your a piece of work.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Aug 2011, 8:57 pm

Gedrene wrote:
In psychopathology circles it’s wheeled in as a way of describing how people with Aspergers lack this vaulted Empathy. Empathy that allows us to regard other people’s desires, beliefs, thoughts and actions with clarity and accuracy and feel like they do, the Empathy that so binds out world together in love and harmony and that not having it means you’ll burn out someone’s eyes with a cigarette for fun because you’re a ret*d. The Empathy that people like Simon Baron-Cohen have been blathering on about is like a sight in to each other’s minds like a telescope that is perfect from birth. The Empathy that gives America a divorce rate of 50% presumably and also helps fuel the pointless war, murder and violence that ravage our word with so many deep wounds and also helps the people whose chosen politicians cause most of this violence live without any stain on their conscience.

Hahaha, reminds me of how some liberals have tried to make conservatism a DSM listed illness or conservatives trying to define liberalism as a mental illness. As you can tell its a true bottomless depth of thought and perspective that drives our society.


Gedrene wrote:
What really made it seem so baleful was the statement beforehand that ‘teleological thinking is a by-product of social cognition’. So to them invoking God as a reason for disease is not a sign of intellectual laziness but of social intelligence.

Ha! My secular miasma theory is superior to your god! :wink:


Gedrene wrote:
If God is a by-product of social intelligence then atheists must have good trash detail, not that they really treat atheists in this article that well either. It claims that Atheists try all they can to try and avoid the supernatural as a cause as if they’re trying to fight away the love of Jesus with a broom or something but that it is just advancing like a randy facehugger that can't be shaken off (or a Mormon missionary, which would be more appropriate). This seems like a classic case of scientists not thinking too hard about what they are seeing. Maybe the reason why it appeared like our standard Atheists seemed like they were just trying to play opposites was because they hadn’t put much thought in to it. Saying God did it is about as much of a substantial answer. I can say one thing; people with Aspergers are always trying to find answers about why something good happened to them because they often don’t expect anything good to happen.

From what you're saying it sounds like they're letting Intelligent Design and creation science into Scientific American - I guess we just have to remember, AS isn't the only disability out there that needs understanding and humor from the mainstream.

Gedrene wrote:
Really what it tells me is that religious people, who say God was why their car was stolen or why they caught tuberculosis, are egotistical, presumptuous and feel powerless in the face of a reality that they want to control and can’t accept that they don’t. It’s as if God is their personal day care supervisor who just happens to spray acid in their face once in a while. They are people who give up a little intellectual liberty to gain a little emotional security and we should all know the outcome of that equation.

Well, reality frankly does suck - its because of this that people make running from it on any angle that won't endanger their ability to work for wages or gather food a high priority. Another thing to note - I was raised and confirmed Catholic, really it was the cognitive dissonance of having to link every bad thing that was happening to God telling me something or putting me through things for a reason that also got me to look around at so much of the world, especially after finding myself as a full-determinist, and realize that religion can work as as a medication for some, for others - like me - the events and just the whole structure of our lives just don't allow for it, we'd lose our minds trying to put divine logic to our life events or being forced to feel like we'd earned all kinds of bad happenstance that truly comes from a universe as sentient as a golf club.

Admittedly yes - I agree with people like Dinesh DeSouza that judaoform religion can make a group more alpha, just because they're on a much more keyed up program - the perceived stakes are much higher than for a person who believes that they exist for no reason, from looking at a lot of what's happened through the middle ages and now what's happening in other parts of the world from a different Abrahamic branch - its clear that the results for our times can be largely undesirable when that ambition needs to be applied to something more tactile and concrete (you could look at Bolshevism in a similar way - it was secular religion driven to do similarly ugly things).

That's not to say I have anything against faith - my best friends are going more and more religious while I'm going the other way, just that I see where we all have our own needs as far as how our lives are inherently organized from birth forward, as long as no one steps on the next person's needs and the public sphere is deemed agnostic we're fine.

Gedrene wrote:
I can clearly remember now the papers that discussed the theory of mind in chimpanzees, who with no knowledge of meteorology get frustrated when that chimp mind in the sky lets rain falls on their heads. If only they could think that without rain their whole species would be extinct, maybe they would actually solve their frustrations and feel more alive or find a creative solution?

I guess in a sense as well you could be looking at the roots of what we consider animism.

Gedrene wrote:
The only conclusion I came away with was that our standard Human Being is a lazy thinker, and that feels like an ugly lie.

Tempting to say its an ugly truth but, its considerably more complex than that even. Lots of very intelligent people water themselves down - whether it was proven to them when they were young that hiding themselves and living for less was better than shining and being excommunicated from the herd for being 'weird', whether some people just have a more dominant social side which keeps their more pensive and reflective side somewhat on the back burner. Its obviously to a large part as well reward and punishment - ie. if you can get lots of really great stuff in your life by knowing the ropes socially and, by the way your nervous system works, people will take you for who you wish to be taken as and you get enough positive feedback to enjoy it - who wouldn't prefer to be more social?

With us its not a choice, mainly in that social know-how is never enough on its own, ie. if your natural wiring of thought is out of phase, if saying something thats on point with the topic but chips at it from an angle that 9/10 people would not naturally go it - inherently - then it comes to pass that you can't be yourself around people, lest you'll be judged. When you can't be yourself around people, people see the disingenuineness of your ways and - again - you're judged. We're stuck in a absolute no win in that sense so, is it any surprise that we chase other avenues? I'm not saying that there are no inherent little professors out there or that we're all closet NT's who wish our social 'gear' worked but doesn't, its a bit of both and many other things; like NT's we come in a wide variety.



Needless to say though - I get what the empathy topic is about but, IMO, its an intellectual fail, and I think you realize that as well from your OP. I don't think empathy doesn't exist, I don't think its unimportant, just that I think the whole way the 'experts' are reading it within us is professional on the level of voodoo and witchcraft, might as well try drilling holes in our heads to let the bad humors out. I don't get the impression that most of us lack empathy, true - some do, but the broader issue is; when you constantly go through certain things, when society sets certain limitations on you, call it 'your place', that you're not allowed to leave from, and then they're utterly confused by your behavior or how it works, it really goes to show that the going pop culture definition of empathy is really nothing more than neurological conformity - ie. I think just like you therefor I can say the most out in left field thing that comes to my mind and it won't creep you out at all.

If its really like that, I think we're hitting a point where the term 'empathy' is hitting a real definitional crisis.


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Gedrene
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23 Aug 2011, 3:25 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
If its really like that, I think we're hitting a point where the term 'empathy' is hitting a real definitional crisis.


FInally someone ewho actually sticks to the topic rather than have an ego trip! But yes, it is a major intellectual fail for me. Good to see you can sense how I feel about this topic. DAMN! EMPATHY!

Edit: For me? Whoops, to me.