NO link between ASD's and Planned Violence, and Why.

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Basically I'm looking for a thoughtful response to my long post on page 5 (and, by extension, my response to MrXxx on page 6).

Autism spectrum disorders are constructs of language that describe and classify a group of behavioral impairments in humans, determined by the APA through work-groups of specialists in the field of psychology/neurology/psychiatry.

The definitions and descriptions of the disorders are moving targets through time.

People tend to anthropomorphize all types of things in life. Part of the reason a budget was so difficult to pass in the US, was that people identified a tax increase on the person making 250K, instead of the 4 cents on every dollar above 250K.

Not surprising at all that people could anthropomorphize a psychological label, or a name on a birth certificate.

For me it's easier to understand the 4 cents on every dollar above 250K, and the studies that suggest that autistic traits move on out to close to 30% of the population. A broader autism phenotype of 10 to 15% of the population provides another gradation of a spectrum of observed behavioral traits in human beings.

Currently it is not a requirement in the DSMIV to be diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder with a substantial difficulty in emotional intelligence, as issues of difficulties with emotional or social reciprocity are currently not mandatory requirements for a diagnosis. While it has been observed that close to 85% of individuals on the spectrum have difficulties with Alexithymia, which is directly associated with emotional intelligence, that still leaves 15% that don't have that difficulty.

Individuals that communicate online identifying either diagnosed or self-diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder, do not reflect the demographic of the general population assessed as having autism spectrum disorders. So, it's not unusual that their perspective on what autism is, might be much different from personal experience per their unique world views.

One recent thread showed a mean of 130 for IQ of people responding identifying with Asperger's syndrome. This is the polar opposite of the concern that IQ tests don't accurately measure the intelligence of those individuals with substantial verbal language impairments on the spectrum.

This is reflected in Michelle Dawson's recent research on intelligence as the two spectrum disorders on average measure opposite per standard measures of verbal strengths on average for Asperger's as opposed to performance IQ strengths and Raven's progressive matrices strengths of non-verbal testing of fluid intelligence for among those diagnosed with Autistic Disorder.

Not only that but there is a correlation of strength of social theory of mind among those with Asperger's disorder with higher levels of measured IQ, as opposed to those with Autistic Disorder with lower levels of measured IQ.

However as a whole, individuals with Asperger's syndrome in large samples in peer reviewed studies, score on average close to what individuals in the general population score on standard measures of intelligence. Often with verbal scores that exceed performance scores within groups of individuals with Asperger's syndrome.

If Lanza is determined as officially diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, it does not appear that he reflects the general population of those with Asperger's syndrome anymore than the general population of those without Asperger's syndrome, per measures of intelligence, as it appears that he was among those off the charts folks, per reports of his academic history.

It stands to reason that the "off the charts" folks would dominate the academic online discussion with what is or what is not autism, particularly if they fit the part of the DSMIV classification of those having a difficult time with emotional and social reciprocity, and finding others responses interesting enough to respond.

Some of the newest research indicates that humans cannot equally process empathetic and analytic concerns at the same time.

Historically there have been warnings of this posted in engineering and computer science fields, in college halls, to not forget that one is human; get out and interact with people. I'm not sure those warnings are posted anymore; it only makes sense that these cultural environmental factors that increase or decrease what is described as emotional intelligence are more prevalent than ever in culture and continually impact the process of neuroplasticity.

So much of this information about the complexity of the spectrum is floating around one would think that people would not make generalizations, however they do, even at the highest, expert levels, per the "expert" in Sweden that suggested a fixation on weapons can lead to violence.

Maybe in some rare cases it could, but if she took the time to study those individuals that were fixated on guns in the larger population, she might also find that they are also fixated on gun safety, hunting, and the shooting range, not violence, similar to the other much larger percentage of the population that have an obsession with guns.

The first thought that came to my mind is how could the expert miss this, perhaps she has narrowed in her interest to diagnostic features and crime rather than the fuller demographic of those diagnosed with the label that led her to her statement. Many "experts" could be considered as having a fairly narrow and restricted interest specific subjects of interest in life. However, as long this doesn't interfere with how they make a living or their relationships, it's not usually considered an impairment.

Limited interest in any "mechanical" field of knowledge, likely impacts difficulties in the social cognition required to take the perspectives of others into consideration and the mechanical cognition associated with other mechanical fields of knowledge.

In an evolutionary sense both types of cognition are essential to the survival of a social animal, however culture provides humans and some of their domesticated animals an unusual opportunity to have an imbalance of one or the other types of cognition.

IQ in standard measures of it, is based mostly on a "mechanical" type of intelligence generated by culture; a requirement of measuring skills in social cognition is partially required in the language parts of the test but they are not required nearly as much in the performance area, and almost not at all in Raven Matrices tests of intelligence.

It's pretty obvious that those that find reward in academic success as opposed to those that find greater reward in social interaction with others, are going to end up with substantially different brains through the process of neuroplasticity, as generally speaking both types of human beings usually start of with an innate ability to develop language and experience emotional contagion with other human beings, under the age of 2 years old.

It appears that some forms of autism are greater generated by innate issues and others are more highly determined by cultural factors. It's impossible to draw any distinct lines on what combinations and environments will result in what type of human being, but it appears that those drawn for those that are impacted greater by culture are drawn later in life.

All the constructs of psychological definitions, descriptions, and labels of disorders only measure what results as a product of nature and nurture, as they are observed at one point in time at a time. The attempt at the discrete parts are what is written in a report that comes as result of observing humans, and the labels constructed and used to define the observations in the report. The humans remain the unique parts.

I wish I could explain it as simply as you did with the emotional intelligence analogy of 71 and 70, but my literal and "weedy" type thinking mind assesses that as not a substantial enough difference to make a point. I didn't see you as insulting anyone's scored IQ's, but in general I attempt to make it as impersonal as possible to avoid insulting the emotional aspects of intelligence, as that often shuts the effective communication down, but I can't stop people from perceiving my communication differently than intended, all I can do is to hope to clarify.

I have been reminded of my inadequacies in emotional communication at every birthday and Christmas of loved ones after my spouse so eloquently expresses love and kindness, and all I can do is sign my name with the appropriate emotion that should be expressed in one word, love.

I would like to have a little more of that thing my spouse has that I am obviously missing and usually only become self-consciously aware of during empirical failures that I can observe in myself when the words will not come, that do in my opinion come from a place in the brain my spouse visits that appears to exist much differently in my brain, particularly when I am involved in absorbed in mechanical cognition.

This newest research in the different neural pathways of the brain for social and mechanical cognition are very interesting as it appears that they are not static and can become more balanced depending on the environment and focus where one's attention is. But it is much more difficult without the human or animal flesh and blood element, if that is the type of cognition one is trying to improve.

i was realy looking forward to that wikipedia study on drugs,gangs and violent crime in bridgeport connecticut

The impact of drugs and gang violence as a major factor associated with violent crime, is well understood, and can be seen in action in the crack wars of the 80's in the link below as a major factor of the steep increase of crimes in the 80's.

Rampage killings, by the most commonly accepted definition of that crime, though, does not include drug trafficking, gangs, or robbery as motivation for the crime.

The experts in the WebMD link were not suggesting there was any link between autism, asperger's and violent crime, in general. There are several "experts" that have claimed a potential association between rare violent crimes and Asperger's, however their findings have not been validated. Silva and the "expert" identified in the WebMD link, are only two of a very few "experts" that have provided an analysis of a potential association.

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/ ... me2004.pdf

i understand that point that there is no clear link between street crime and autism but that your focus was on rampage killers.and yes i get the distiction.

however my point was more that in the sceme of things autistics are not a danger to the public and this important to maintain.that was more my point.this is the first case of a rampage murder or murders have been coclusively been linked to autism.jerad luaghner was clearly schizophrenic and so likely is james homes.these were people who's attitudes were drasticly changed with anti pshychotic drugs.high doses of anti phychotic drugs essentialy cure schizophrenia.the problen being the powerfull side affects that usualy result in people stoping the meds and that is the big problem.

although cocktails of medications can mitigate some autistic comorbid conditions there is no radical change in a person.i personaly believe and with all respect to your intentions(and i do believe your motives are sincere and i respect you for that) that now is not the time to shine the light on inconclusive studies that make people with autism look dangerous.

are people who have autism possibly more likely to snap and do something terrable,well any number of groups of people who find themselves disenfranchised from society are always more likely to snap.
anyone going through hard times and who is denied help they need could be a weak link that breaks but that applies to anyone.

most people on death row have severely low iq's or at least studies so indicate,but no one is saying people who have mental retaedation are dangerous

@aghogday
it seemed like your posts gave that implication or that maybe i had misunderstood you.thank you for explaining.
i believe though that autism speaks and the ASAN have cons pired to deny some autistic people help.the parents at autism speaks minimulize and trivialize aspergers and other higher fuctioning forms of autism.and the ASAN continues to maintain that aspergers is not a serious disability and that all that matters is discrimination against a personality type.and that any attempt to mitigate symtoms is somehow genicide.

people who are to severe to fit into the ASAN profile but are to mild to fit into the autism speaks profile fall through the cracks,but even that said very very few of these forgotten people ever do violence.

i dont know what you mean when you say there is no corolation between severe mental illness and violence.there have been multitudes of cases where people with schizophrenia and borderline personalities have commited violent crimes.however im not saying schizophrenics are bad people, if people got the proper help sooner this could be avoided along with the fact that the side affects of anti psychotics are so unbarable

Actually, the studies I have provided here in this thread show that neither people with Autistic Disorder, Asperger's syndrome, or Schizophrenia are directly linked as committing any violent crime above and beyond the general population, given similar environmental circumstances.

... individuals with autistic disorder commit less violent crime, as a whole, than the general population.

Kinda easy to see why that is (they wouldn't care about the things that cause people to commit violent crimes due to a severe lack of social awareness).

I'd expect them to probably be more aggressive on average based on typical meltdowns (standard outbursts of autism), but that's a far cry from selfish violence.

Actual case histories of mass murder only support on thing, White Male.