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vermontsavant
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26 Aug 2020, 3:19 pm

Carpeta wrote:
I think someone who has the word "savant" in his username is not likely to back down from wanting to use that word. :wink: Nice to see people working through a disagreement civilly. :wtg:
:)


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eyelessshiver
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26 Aug 2020, 5:53 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
Carpeta wrote:
I think someone who has the word "savant" in his username is not likely to back down from wanting to use that word. :wink: Nice to see people working through a disagreement civilly. :wtg:
:)


I see what he's getting at more clearly now. Even from the very start, individuals like Kanner and Asperger were observant of the fact that autistic people were apparently not "ret*d", even if they sometimes appeared to be superficially. Often they had gifts as well, despite their disabilities. Although technically it's estimated only 10 percent have "savant" abilities -- these are of a more specific and overt variety...the percentage of relative gifts I imagine would be much higher than 10 percent, depending on how this is defined. And while obviously not all autistic people are "idiot" level intelligence, you can see they all have at least some deficits, which place them below normal people on certain axes. So yeah, in terms of broad strokes, idiot savant does still get at this contrast of abilities common among autistic people.



firemonkey
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26 Aug 2020, 11:43 pm

I once suggested on a FB group that I was a verbal savant . That's because my non-verbal/practical and spatial intelligence sucks compared to my verbal intelligence .



SharonB
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27 Aug 2020, 6:47 am

firemonkey wrote:
I once suggested on a FB group that I was a verbal savant . That's because my non-verbal/practical and spatial intelligence sucks compared to my verbal intelligence .

I am the opposite of you. Could we partner together and present ourself as a whole person? :wink:

("ourself" was on purpose)



firemonkey
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27 Aug 2020, 7:26 am

It would be a novel thing!



eyelessshiver
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27 Aug 2020, 2:25 pm

I think I sort of qualify as well...high intelligence, creative and intellectual gifts...but I take into account the substance use disorder I've had (alcoholism/drug abuse), the mental health challenges (schizoaffective disorder)...anxiety issues such as shy bladder syndrome, also some depression in the past...behavioral problems as a kid, and some Aspergian issues as well, such as stunted social development (just kind of missing the mark sometimes socially, isolating, and having relationship problems), and like relatively lower development in career than one might expect (having a Master's degree but not putting it to very good use)...some "idiot savant" or savant syndrome ideas are applicable in my case. But I think I'm too close to normal to really qualify with the stereotypical portrait. I think most people who meet me would just think I seem basically normal, maybe a little unusual but without any serious deficits without deeper examination. But some of this stuff is hidden (gifts and challenges). I think a lot of people are like that.



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27 Aug 2020, 9:10 pm

firemonkey wrote:
It would be a novel thing!

I see what you did there. :D



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29 Aug 2020, 2:21 pm

Both HFA and Asperger's a so vague and heterogeneous that it's difficult to draw distinctions between them.

Asperger's, however, has always had a slightly romantic tinge to it. From the Nazi-affiliated Hans Asperger's own reflections on the special STEM skills his boys had that could benefit the Third Reich, Asperger's has always had the implication of not just social impairment, but compensatory savant abilities and great intellectual achievements, such that a "dash of Autism" is essential to the functioning of any society.

HFA is a much more morose and pessimistic image, one where the person in question is not too poorly impaired, but is not the "little professor" Asperger described, with untapped potential to go on and be some kind of super successful, genius Autistic professional.

HFA and Asperger's have also been (disturbingly) distinguished frequently along gender and race lines. To put it simply, girls and PoC did not fit into the little professor caricature (where Aspies were thought of as precocious little white boys) and were more likely to get hit with the HFA diagnosis or non ASD diagnosis (or no diagnosis) as opposed to the cosmopolitan Asperger's diagnosis.

https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.c ... 018-0208-6

https://psmag.com/news/autisms-race-problem

Hans Asperger was a despicable human being. He championed psychiatric biomedical reductionism, racism, child murder, and utter lack of empathy for his patients. It's a disgrace that we've immortalized his name as we have.

I think we need more precise labels, but Asperger's is one that doesn't really need to stick around... I use it because it's easily recognizable, but I honestly don't know if it's a name that we should keep using.


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08 Sep 2020, 12:04 am

I used to find it elitist and separatist for Aspies wanting to not be lumped with HFA

But now I respect people's need to avoid getting stigmatised and it's everyones right to choose where they want to belong. Aspie has become a term of endearment and if people feel comfortable calling themselves Aspies or stating their diagnosis as "Aspergers", It's a personal choice.

But then conversely these same people no longer speak for the autistic community or can claim membership. You can't have it both ways.



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08 Sep 2020, 1:37 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
Both HFA and Asperger's a so vague and heterogeneous that it's difficult to draw distinctions between them.

Asperger's, however, has always had a slightly romantic tinge to it. From the Nazi-affiliated Hans Asperger's own reflections on the special STEM skills his boys had that could benefit the Third Reich, Asperger's has always had the implication of not just social impairment, but compensatory savant abilities and great intellectual achievements, such that a "dash of Autism" is essential to the functioning of any society.

HFA is a much more morose and pessimistic image, one where the person in question is not too poorly impaired, but is not the "little professor" Asperger described, with untapped potential to go on and be some kind of super successful, genius Autistic professional.

HFA and Asperger's have also been (disturbingly) distinguished frequently along gender and race lines. To put it simply, girls and PoC did not fit into the little professor caricature (where Aspies were thought of as precocious little white boys) and were more likely to get hit with the HFA diagnosis or non ASD diagnosis (or no diagnosis) as opposed to the cosmopolitan Asperger's diagnosis.

https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.c ... 018-0208-6

https://psmag.com/news/autisms-race-problem

Hans Asperger was a despicable human being. He championed psychiatric biomedical reductionism, racism, child murder, and utter lack of empathy for his patients. It's a disgrace that we've immortalized his name as we have.

I think we need more precise labels, but Asperger's is one that doesn't really need to stick around... I use it because it's easily recognizable, but I honestly don't know if it's a name that we should keep using.


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You are one of them. 8)



firemonkey
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08 Sep 2020, 5:35 am

cyberdad wrote:
I think this is one of the challenges for the so called neurodiversity movement in the autism community is the supposed alliance between people who are able to function quite well Vs those who struggle to be accepted by NTs.



How does one define 'functioning quite well'? I guess I'm looking for some concrete indicators of such. I don't identify with those here with high powered jobs who are needing little or no support. I also don't identify with level 3 +ID types.



vermontsavant
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08 Sep 2020, 6:19 am

firemonkey wrote:

How does one define 'functioning quite well'? I guess I'm looking for some concrete indicators of such. I don't identify with those here with high powered jobs who are needing little or no support. I also don't identify with level 3 +ID types.

I would be with you FM.


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cyberdad
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08 Sep 2020, 6:47 am

firemonkey wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think this is one of the challenges for the so called neurodiversity movement in the autism community is the supposed alliance between people who are able to function quite well Vs those who struggle to be accepted by NTs.



How does one define 'functioning quite well'? I guess I'm looking for some concrete indicators of such. I don't identify with those here with high powered jobs who are needing little or no support. I also don't identify with level 3 +ID types.


Not sure, its based on some type of consensus I guess. If it's intellectual then you are certainly high functioning FM



firemonkey
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08 Sep 2020, 7:07 am

cyberdad wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
I think this is one of the challenges for the so called neurodiversity movement in the autism community is the supposed alliance between people who are able to function quite well Vs those who struggle to be accepted by NTs.



How does one define 'functioning quite well'? I guess I'm looking for some concrete indicators of such. I don't identify with those here with high powered jobs who are needing little or no support. I also don't identify with level 3 +ID types.


Not sure, its based on some type of consensus I guess. If it's intellectual then you are certainly high functioning FM


Intellectually I'm like the horse that can only run well on one type of 'going'