Grrrr, vaccine ARE connected with autism. >.< That's a

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Because vaccinations work in a pack. One person doesn't do it - the others are ineffective.

Hence, a disease is not controlled and it KILLS PEOPLE!! !

But you're vaccinated, so how can you get the disease? You can't, if they work so well, so why wory? And they must work that well or you wouldn't vaccinate, right? You can't tell me you're that concerned about my not vaccinating because you're worried I or MY children might get the bug...

Because if everyone was vaccinated, diseases like polio could have been non-existent by now. But instead, it still exists, and continues to mutate, and people need to keep getting vaccines so they don't get it. If everyone got their vaccinations in this generation, then a generation from now people wouldn't need to get polio vaccines anymore!

Think about it, we could do the same with measles, mumps, hepatitis, completely ELIMINATE these diseases from the world! But only if everyone does their part...

LeKiwi and Zendell are perfect examples of why I hold luddite survivalist-libertarian types in nothing but utter contempt. I have never met a survivalist-libertarian nut that wasn't a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

LeKiwi, not to scare you any more than you already are, but that family I mentioned that was tested for toxins in our area? They are totally organic, buy natural, the whole nine yards. They were SHOCKED by their test results.

To some degree, we can and should accept that a certain amount of crap gets into our bodies, and our bodies learn to deal with it. But, yes, to the extent we can control it, it seems logical to do so.

Of course, the flip side is what my 10 year son has observed: hygiene has made the human race weaker. We're no longer able to fend off common germs and natural toxins. Lol, we told him real quick that we were still better with it than without it, but he isn't without a point.

I firmly believe in balance. And I also have been around the block enough to realize that what seem to be obvious answers aren't really what they appear to be. Which takes you back to balance.

Honestly, the vaccine question probably wouldn't be such a hot topic if the belief wasn't distorting life for so many families. They become obsessed with dubious cures and therapies, many of which are painful and stressful to their children. They blow a huge amount of money on it, and even more energy. It stikes me as obvious that they would have a lot more success, at a far more reasonable financial and emotional cost, if they tuned into their children more, and tuned out the overwhelming community for this theory instead. Eliminating toxins from our vaccines is certainly a good idea, and that is being done. But hanging on to that encourages the belief that there is a scapegoat for a child's condition, which hinders acceptance and fully absorbing the positives. It makes parents believe that they can control whether or not their next child will be similarly affected, when the odds remain against it. It encourages parents to focus on "curing" their child instead of helping their children adapt. And more. Basically, it has been the view of many autistics and aspies that the whole concept is doing a lot more harm than good. You won't find the same arguments about diet changes, because there are not a lot of downsides there, other than the time the parent has to invest. It's all about comparing what is lost, to what is gained.

Honestly, I respect that you want to mitigate the risks and thus will choose not to vaccinate. People make that choice for many reasons. As long you leave that conclusion to your personal situaiton, your unique family, it doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the whole industry that has arisen around this issue, the sales pitches, and the real harm I see coming from it. One family quietly making a choice based on their own instincts and personal opinions is what freedom is all about. Go for it; I see where you are coming from. But for the families that have already made a choice, what is done is done, and a scapegoat won't provide anything positive, but many things negative. That is what I have seen as I watch and listen.

And I agree entirely.

I think you've got to be careful; if someone firmly believes their child might benefit from one of these therapies, then I don't really see what harm can come from it, but they need to be very wary of it turning from a simple trial to an all out witch-hunt for the miracle formula to 'bring back' their child. It's not hard for people to form obsessions over these things, and in doing so to lose sight of what they're really trying to do - to help their child get on in the world as best he or she can. As long as the child's well-being isn't sacrificed and the child shoved to the side in the parent's quest to find the holy grail then again, I don't see the problem. But I understand where you're coming from and I can see how that could happen pretty easily and quickly.

I also agree with you on the industry that's sprung from it - you can't really stop people being opportunists, and I can understand where it's come from, but to be honest it's no worse than big pharma pushing all their drugs on it at every opportunity too and creating diseases to cure us from.

As for vaccines - as long as people are aware of the risks and of what they contain, that's all I ask. I can't bear watching people who clearly have children with risk factors vaccinate, and then flinch as the child goes through hell for the next however long as they react to it, as their siblings all did or something. It's about informed decisions as far as I'm concerned - there isn't enough information about what's in them; au contraire, there's more of a deliberate effort from the powers-that-be for there NOT to be any information readily available on their contents and risks. And that's what scares me more than anything - people's willingness to just go lambs to the slaughter and believe whatever they're told. That's when we get into trouble. If they still choose to vaccinate, then that's their choice. So long as they know what they're doing.

I also can't bear the community of "You're putting us all at risk you selfish stupid conspiracy theorist!" that cries from the hilltops the moment you say you won't vaccinate. Blech.



And it's ok, I'm not overly scared - we're all riddled with toxins, I know, it's just a part of living in this modern world. I'm not particularly scared, just interested in health (I'm a naturopathic student) and keen to minimise things as much as possible. Not only for myself, but for the world and the planet around me too. The less toxins you use the better off you'll be, but the planet will be too. Conservation is growing but not fast enough.

Peppefire: Suggest you do a bit more reading. There is no reasoning with you, however, so I shan't so much as try. The truth can be scary, I understand.

Here's something from as mainstream a publication as you can probably get, the New York Times, about the way in which studies go unpublished. I know you won't accept anything from a remotely independent source (hey, gotta love those few people who control all our mainstream media huh!), so maybe seeing it in here will put you on the right track.

No, it's normally terrifying.

nytimes link

Sorry, forgot the link - there you go.


I said it was a starting point - the story leaves a lot out and only touches the tip of the iceberg, but at least it's a start. I wouldn't put anything from somewhere equally credible 'yet alternative', like indymedia or dr. mercola, as you no doubt wouldn't read it anyway.