Mental Illness vs Autism

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Hi

Why is it so acceptable for Autistics to behave in a certain "socially unacceptable" way, and therefore be self accepting; but for the Mentally Ill, there is no understanding, or acceptance - they must change - , or self-organised movement, or ads to get funding for research and educational programs...etc. etc.

Its a question of limits, just because someones autistic doesn't mean they can go round your house and rape your mom (sociallly unnacceptable). I would argue that because there is a neurological basis for autism, it's an incapability in certain areas, you can't change it per se. However with a mental illness, you "catch it", even though there might be a genetic susceptability. I think thats the technical distinction. Even though, you could argue its pretty thin.

Agreed totally. The mentally ill have got it right, we should adopt there aim of changing and no longer hide behind social acceptability

But seriously, it probably comes down to the perception that autism is primarily a lack of social skills, hence letting anyone autistic making social errors off. A schizophrenic, by contrast, does not directly have social skills difficulties.

Of course, that is untenable. Autism causes all sorts of other psychological problems which then additionally make social interaction difficult, just as psychological problems a schizophrenic will likely suffer will cause social interaction difficulties. Hence I see autism and AS as a mental illness. It should not be consider some special category, that arises because it is currently popular in the media and that autistic culture is exceptionally good as self promotions.

I have not encountered anymore tolerance for Autistic behaviors than for behaviors caused by mental illness.

In my experience, I know plenty of people with mental disorders who are better accepted and tolerated by peers than I am, even peers who have witnessed their symptomatic states.

Evidently, Autism is persistent and pervasive, whereas the symptoms of many mental illnesses take the form of “acute attacks” that cause the individual to behave in ways that the individual, outside these states would not behave or want to behave in, or alternatively to have experiences that are atypical of them and undesirable to them. Many of these symptoms that are unwanted by the person experiencing them are amenable to medical intervention, and this is why they are targeted for clinical intervention.

Okay

Pervasive vs Acute
Personality disorders are pretty pervasive, and scizophrenics generally are not functional day to day, it's only the psychosis that is acute. Auties have acute behaviours.

Developmental vs Late Onset
Maybe, so what?

No response vs. Responds to pharmaceuticals
*Autie Kids do repond to psych drugs in behavioural outcomes

Neurological vs. 'They don't know'
*vs. deliberate? who'd chose to be nuts?

Not responsible for themselves vs. Responsible
*Well that will get a few people fired up - but i'm referring to the attitude of mental health professionals and the general public when dealing with an autie vs a mental misbehave... mentals are handled like naughty children playing up. I've seen it. Despite someones friend of a friend who though mentals were better. Auties are having sensory difficulties...

Innocent vs Bad?
* No social skills vs. Deliberately messing with people
Who'd want to deliberately upset people? That's why the mental states are undesirable, no?

Acute attacks of behaviour that actually makes you feel better vs. Acute attacks of unwanted behaviour
* ? you tell me

Comorbids (depression and stuff that goes along with autism) happen in scizophrenia etc. too

Schizophrenics don't have Theory of Mind while symptomatic.

What do you all make of that?

Actually

Acute attacks of behaviour that actually makes you feel better vs. Acute attacks of unwanted behaviour
* maybe mentals are just less honest about tantrums making you feel better, cos they are more aware its so socially unacceptable. "Well Officer when i through that glass through the window I felt better" Doesn't go down too well

Actually in more mild instances of say Borderline Personality Disorder, the disruptive behaviors are most of the time no worse than the disruptive behavior of someone who tends towards the personality traits entailed without having a clinical disorder. One such person I know personally is usually quite managable and no more difficult to get along with, nor more impaired in her daily functioning than many people I know who do not have a disorder. When she is stressed however her mildly disruptive behaviors become very intense, and she engages in a range of symptomatic behaviors that are not present outside times of stress.

The scizophrenics I know are actually quite functioning in between acute states that tend to follow a familiar and stereotyped pattern that differs from one to another but is quite stable for the person themselves, with the only real change being that for some these acute states become more intense, last longer and occur more often as time goes by.


Which are subject to clinical intervention. Indeed the pervasive aspects of Autism have been and still often are subject to intervention.


In the first instance that the person is not simply “being themselves” is obviously more apparent when symptomatic behaviors are quite discontinuous with_the person’s earlier behavior.

Secondly, behaviors arising in the course of ASDs are often targeted for intervention, so your comments actually do not make any sense.

Which fact we would not know if no one were trying to use them to treat Autistic people in respect of such behaviors.
That-you are not making any sense.

You’ve yet to address the problem that it is not true that Autistic behaviors are not targeted for clinical intervention, it is not true that they are socially well tolerated and-In_my_experience generally people with AS will be more rejected by their peer group than non Autistic people characterized by mental health problems. That being the case remind me again what it is you want an explanation for?

Where I live if I have a sleep disorder I can get public health services, unless I have an Autistic disorder in which case as someone over 18, no services for Autism related issues, and any issue that could be Autism related is assumed to be. We had an 18 year old put in a prison cell because even though she was apparently suffering from a mental disorder in addition to having AS, the mental health services claimed they could not cope with someone who had Autism. Consequently this person was placed in prison because she had Autism; something that would never have happened if she had mental health issues and no Autism. This is not tolerance or acceptance, it is exclusion and frankly discrimination.

Being denied help is not the same as being tolerated, being expected to tolerate one’s situation without support is not being accepted.

Thanks for your reply. I'm actually not asking for an explanation. Just trying to nut out the differences.
So the behaviours which are targets for clinical intervention... by these you mean meltdowns/ shutdowns/ tantrums?
which are the pervasive elements? What do mean when you say 'well those things are targeted for clinical internvention? do you mean there the parts that get treated? What if they can't be treated? are they still part of ASD?

More pervasive elements would entail features such as repetitive stereotyped patterns of behaviour, aversion to eye contact, impairments in social understanding, and even impairments in “imaginative play”.

That if someone with an Autistic Disorder keeps manifesting behaviors that are disruptive to others that this will often be responded to with clinical interventions, for instance medication.


In many instances, particularly in the instance of children (early intervention being in vogue).



Depends on the individual circumstance.

???

I guess i'm talking about 'will + attitude' (i've been reading that other post) in terms of the mentally ill. I think it's awesome that there are so many ways of 'getting around' some of the issues with having ASD. I don't see a similar focus on the issues that the mentally ill have. It's take your meds and go home, or periodic institutionalisation... there's not much by way of helping them manage living with it. It's not seen in terms of a disability to overcome but rather madness with little hope of a cure. If you see what i'm trying to say...

why should all the differences between autism and mental illness matter, when it comes down to it, it's fairly unacceptable social behaviours... pathology/ neurology/ learning disabilities aside

Where's the mental illness movement (not mental health movement as this negates the acceptance part) ? The self advocacy education? The online support from fellow consumers? etc etc as i said before. The cute nickname for being mentburgers?

I’m sorry but I really do not understand what you mean at all. What you describe bears no resemblance to the reality where I live at any rate.
Do you mean aside from in assisting to clarify prognosis, guide treatment, facilitate self understanding and the understanding of family/community/support workers/educators/employers etc?


Unless you can clarify this comment, I think it’s best that I not comment further on this.

Around and about, progressing their cause.


Er, have you tried actually looking for these things using tools such as the internet, google and relevant search words?

Yes, yes I have. If you find anything self-organised, let me know.

Thanks for failing to even attempt to understand what i'm trying to say in any way.

It's based off of perceptions of ability.

If a person with a moderate to severe ASD behaves oddly in public, people are more likely to stop and think before outwardly displaying judgement towards them. People put them firmly in the "ret*d" category, so they don't expect anything better out of them. The same is true of anyone who has a support worker following them in public, ASD or other intellectual disability.

People with milder ASDs and mental illness tend to be grouped in the same category of "they should try harder" because they typically do not have the same intellectual disabilities that some other people have. They are seen as inherently mentally capable.

Okay yeah I see. Perception of being Mentally capable.

Hey, I found some stuff finally.

It's called the Consumer/ Survivor/ Ex patient movement. There's a recovery movement, which obviously misses my point.

Still looking around.

Thanks for the input guys!

Hi me again

Sorry for all the thinking out loud.

I'm not sorry enough though; here's some more.

I'd like to suggest that Mentals also have an underlying vulnerability that makes them more susceptable to Mental Illness, like Auties.

I'd like the Neurodiversity movement to accept Mental Illness as part of the group of the Neuro-diverse. They need your brains/ resources etc.

You mean "mad pride" movement? Activism going back to the 1960s started with people like Thomas Szacz (sp?) and Laing
Check out the icarus project or mindfreedom.org
Many more mainstream consumer recovery and peer support groups, sponsored by states and by groups like NAMI.
Patientslikeme.com has mood disorders support group
Good book called "Agnes' Jacket" by Gail Hornstein covers psychiatric survivor's movement