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ci
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04 Sep 2011, 2:00 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4T6Y0HFU3A[/youtube]

To take autism seriously is met with being offended. To not take autism seriously may for some mean life threatening lack of services and supports. How can autism be taken seriously without threatening the human rights within the law by being offended?


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vermontsavant
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04 Sep 2011, 5:25 pm

hmm,om ok, explain.if your thinking what i think your thinking.autism supremists,pride mites or whatever arent stoping anyone from geting services.that is simply not happening.peer pressure may exist that makes being pro cure online lonely,but stoping services simply not true.im telling you the truth,im not anti cure


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ci
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04 Sep 2011, 5:30 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
hmm,om ok, explain.if your thinking what i think your thinking.autism supremists,pride mites or whatever arent stoping anyone from geting services.that is simply not happening.peer pressure may exist that makes being pro cure online lonely,but stoping services simply not true.im telling you the truth,im not anti cure


Think of it this way..

If autism is in need for no remedy, it is not a bad disability and does not substantially limit an individual where applicable then who is going to fund services to help us? It's more so indirect causal potentials. If you want we can get into more of the complex nature of the topic.


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04 Sep 2011, 6:00 pm

i believe the pride crowds view point is more autism cetered nurturing as opposed to outright cure.but not denial of services


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ci
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04 Sep 2011, 6:05 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
i believe the pride crowds view point is more autism cetered nurturing as opposed to outright cure.but not denial of services


Not all factions it would seem from the outer realms of extremes. I've experienced it with no provocation for compassionate based opportunity and inclusion as their focus was the realm of Autism Speaks Vs. Pride and the Wrold Vs. The Aspies. Organization like ASAN have done PR is such poor ways it is threatening. Such as using abortion politics to ask for services money. they either don't intend to be that bad or I'd propose they simply are a special interest group behind the scenes with strings attached to their mouths and limbs to conduct advocacy in the worse of ways.

Ethically my trust is not in many corners but a few. It's where I feel the most secure in knowing I will be helped. Not just because purposed peers want me to think certain ways. I'd like to think I attempt to transcend most of the nonsense and that is more of a protectionism theory and agenda for myself and others who really do need help in life.


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04 Sep 2011, 6:19 pm

i dont deny that there are extreme viewpoints out there,but day to day they dont have much influence.perportionate to the amount of posts you make blasting the pride crowd,i dont see the threat.its possably i could have been mauled by a bear walking the dog today.but very very unlikely.not a worry i would post about.you can rarely find bears when your looking for them


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ci
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04 Sep 2011, 6:25 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
i dont deny that there are extreme viewpoints out there,but day to day they dont have much influence.perportionate to the amount of posts you make blasting the pride crowd,i dont see the threat.its possably i could have been mauled by a bear walking the dog today.but very very unlikely.not a worry i would post about.you can rarely find bears when your looking for them


It's not all unlike a potential bear and a horror movie featuring the theme of it's going to happen for certain. Simply it's protectionism and they have obtained substantial enough media coverage with the outrageous conflicts of interests and approaches but seem to have failed to garnish general appeal. I believe there should be a backup plan to balance it out however should they in their methods continue to gain footing in inappropriate and politically hostile ways inciting hard feelings with the general public and extraordinarily inappropriate demands for money in context to abortion politics.

Evidence of the threat is there, persistent and relevant. It's better to be safer then sorry and to educate relevant groups of the risks and inappropriate nature of the methods. It is a moral and ethical duty whose methods of reproach merely safeguard against political social effects.

It is in others best interest and who are also quite dependent upon help.


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04 Sep 2011, 8:06 pm

Ari, Fearless Leader of ASAN, has said all that is needed is acceptance.

He got through school, became self cured, just by taking up an autism slot.

If acceptance does not work for you, it must be your fault.

Aside from the outright fraud involved, for some do see getting their autism ticket as a scholarship, within the autistic there is denial.

I did it for sixty years, nothing wrong with me, just other people. Now there is some truth to that. It took a while, but I came to understand it was me, I did have a disability, and it did explain a lot of my life.

People closer to twenty, their life ahead of them, do not want to hear they are incurably disabled. Some stuff works much too well, some performance is superior, so you get a Pride Mite.

I got through only on my skills, drive, and looking back, many a mess from autism. I understand how they feel, I did the same, but my life was a series of social crashes that I never saw coming.

I have seen both sides, and from the wisdom of age say, denying it will not make it go away.

There is also the expanding reach of Dx, once only for the obvious, now tossed about like Ritlin to the ADHD set. Doing your best and still getting sent to special education, in local slang, being put on the short bus with the Dexers. This is a blow to the ego, and to the plan, becoming a Silicon Valley Geek. Special Ed derails all future plans, and they rebel, but not being able to overthrow the system, for it is social, where they are blind, they rebel against Autism, in all it's forms.

This moving line of Dx, has been spreading into what was just the Broader Autism Phenotype. Nerd or Geek was acceptable, the short bus to special education not. They got trapped in expanding the Psychology Franchise.

In politics, if a group rejects services, which Pride Mites do, that can be used to reduce all services. ci mentions that Asperger's is no longer considered autism for services.

Psychology thinks everyone is nuts, they are. I agree with Jung who said, "Show me a sane man, and I will cure him,"

They have no need to be rational, like the State that has to pay for services, where there is never enough money to cover their next raise, retirement funds, larger offices, new desks, and deliver Social Services. Something has to give, so they listen to Pride Mites, who claim they need nothing but acceptance, which is free. So services to Asperger's gets cut, and they are told they are accepted, and if it does not work, it is their fault. They can become social and join a Pride March.

So here are three sides, Pride Mites who deny they belong on the short bus, Psychology that knows that half the population should be making visits to their office, and the Minions of the State that have to spend on themselves first, then trickle down something on the people they are employed to support.

The Autistic are disavantaged in such a social fight. As it is a spectrum, the highest functioning that could better deal with social problems are cast out into the street to be slaughtered. They are told it is their fault for not getting the educational benefits that went to real autistics with private doctors, and the social skills to get scholarships. They got a free ride through the University, at public expense, and were totally cured by the time they graduated.

Everyone is gaming the system, and the autistic are not good at social games, in fact, it defines the condition.

The Pride Mites spend special attention on those who could call them the frauds they are. Autism Speaks would, an Autism Scholarship would never cure anyone who had the condition. It is always a lifetime condition, unless you never had it in the first place, bought a Dx, and defrauded the system to steal benefits earmarked for others, with real needs.

ASAN seems to stand for lets claim we have autism and get scholarships.

Fraud aside, Autism is just as real as ever, autistic people do need support, and that will be lifelong, and much more needs to be done in research, directed at early identification and intervention. Early childhood is the place to reduce lifetime costs.

Autism Speaks is not producing miracle cures, like autism scholarships do, just developing programs that are showing consistant improvment of outcomes for children. Independant living, social and economic inclusion, are a lot cheaper than Group Homes and locked wards. The effects of autism are being reduced, giving everyone a better chance at a richer life.

This has my vote for being the best use of limited funds to aid the most people. My second vote is for the people who were just born too early to benefit, who do need lifetime support.

I never give up, and John Elder Robison has mentioned that some treatments in testing work on adults. If it is 5% better performance, where do I sign up?

Nothing will come without research, Politics is like god, who only helps those who help themselves, to the public trough. Pride Marches and Unions will not make the lives of autistics better.

While I have ranted about Psychobabble, some of the better of their species have seen that changing the DSM, abolishing Asperger's, creates one class that can not be so easily cut by State Social Services. Clinical Autism or nothing. From our point of view they are being the good guys.

Autism Speaks is also coming to include a wider view of autism. Programs for adults are being worked on, Asperger's is being included, they went from being Corporate to seeing us as people. That is a bigger leap than most corporations ever make toward their customer base. They are being supportive of our community, doing outreach in their quaint little NT ways, but they are trying to overcome themselves.

By their own numbers they see the need for mass support services in the future, and must wonder how that many more survived in the past with nothing. They are our best hope for a national program of everything from early childhood to old age.

This has to be a top down movement, and it will happen much faster with open acceptance from the autistic population. If ten years from now children are half as autistic, I will not feel any loss. We owe the future the best possible world.



ci
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04 Sep 2011, 10:29 pm

"Psychology thinks everyone is nuts, they are. I agree with Jung who said, "Show me a sane man, and I will cure him," "

Laugh Snort!


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AlanTuring
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04 Sep 2011, 11:08 pm

I would appreciate it if the attacks on those of us who take pride in having coped with and survived Asperger's and other forms of autism would end.

Phrases like "the Pride crowd" and "pride mites" are written with the intent to condemn, put down, and wound and have no place here, especially in light of the warnings given by the moderators.

I also would appreciate it if people would stop attacking others for not being officially diagnosed, for suggesting that those of us without official diagnoses aren't real, don't suffer, and don't have opinions that count.

Also, phrases like 'hater', 'NT-hater', and the like aren't usually accurate and should be left unsaid.


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ci
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04 Sep 2011, 11:19 pm

AlanTuring wrote:
I would appreciate it if the attacks on those of us who take pride in having coped with and survived Asperger's and other forms of autism would end.

Phrases like "the Pride crowd" and "pride mites" are written with the intent to condemn, put down, and wound and have no place here, especially in light of the warnings given by the moderators.

I also would appreciate it if people would stop attacking others for not being officially diagnosed, for suggesting that those of us without official diagnoses aren't real, don't suffer, and don't have opinions that count.

Also, phrases like 'hater', 'NT-hater', and the like aren't usually accurate and should be left unsaid.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5Xp3aaK8Cw[/youtube]

I think you need to look at the history of the emotional and social abuse toward individuals who want a cure and who have been socially been bullied by some peers who are prominent in these forums groups. In some ways it's liberating to finally make a stand. To not fall for the convenient rhetoric but believe that with a more positive attitude we can achieve more. While I don't use the word pride-mite anymore I find it convenient that once the tides turn any criticism against pride who has not been all about coping but harsh mind altering politics seeks to be simply a victim of name calling and misunderstanding. Good people have been trashed by people that took them for granted. I think allot of people need to be thanked for all they have tried to do to help us and don't deserve to have been talked to in many of the ways some have representing pride.

There are allot of loving people out there that have been treated like scum and dirt which is not in the best interest of myself and others. Some of these pride agenda's are down right frightening. You for instance achieved a PHD and so on while some or more of us were never that included and depend on good relations to achieve hopeful goals. I think some take the good intentions of others for granted and are a risk to the rest of us.


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04 Sep 2011, 11:34 pm

I would like to say that I'm not a Pride Mite. I'm a person who is comfortable with my label and my quirks. I'm just somebody who happens to disagree with you. I think that if we all agreed to disagree, than this sub forum would run a lot more smoothly. We all have our own opinions. Let's keep it at that. :)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdsI0FLPDY[/youtube]


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ci
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04 Sep 2011, 11:40 pm

That would be fine and dandy because if people would agree to disagree they would be nicer to the so called Neurotypicals who pour billions with a B into supports, living and so on to help us. The idea of reverse discrimination is very valid. Some who hate the idea of compassionate inclusion claiming to be aspies told me that my mommy brought me around for others to feel sorry for me. To me it's those who make up a bunch of stuff to get attention like N.T's just want to kill us and pity us that are the problem. There politics have created such hard feelings that in what I do someone accused me of being an ASAN. Look at their protests accusing others of pity. The pride movement where applicable is not about coping but belittling, discriminating and hiding the truth over agenda's like abortion and anti-N.Tism for the sake of an absurd loyalty to the delusion at times the N.T's who spend vast resources helping us are really out to get us and mean ill will.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZ3_obMXwU[/youtube]


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AlanTuring
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04 Sep 2011, 11:54 pm

While I'm at it, I'd like to request some more positive changes in WP, especially in this forum.

I'd like to stop being condemned for being high functioning.

I'd like to stop being accused of being... I'm not sure what towards people who are not high functioning.

I'd like to stop being accused at all.

I'd like to stop having any accomplishments held against me and others. That I have had a few high points, however hollow, in my life does not disqualify me from being an aspie/autist or mean that my life has been/will be easy.

I'd like to hear, and be subjected to, far less negative language.

I'd like to see less turf warfare in WP, especially in this forum.

I come here because I'm hurt, lonely, and trying to build a person out of the wreckage. I also enjoy the company and the opportunities to help others where I can.

I've had more than enough negativity and barbed attacks in my life. I don't want any of it here.


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ci
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05 Sep 2011, 4:05 am

AlanTuring wrote:
While I'm at it, I'd like to request some more positive changes in WP, especially in this forum.

I'd like to stop being condemned for being high functioning.

I'd like to stop being accused of being... I'm not sure what towards people who are not high functioning.

I'd like to stop being accused at all.

I'd like to stop having any accomplishments held against me and others. That I have had a few high points, however hollow, in my life does not disqualify me from being an aspie/autist or mean that my life has been/will be easy.

I'd like to hear, and be subjected to, far less negative language.

I'd like to see less turf warfare in WP, especially in this forum.

I come here because I'm hurt, lonely, and trying to build a person out of the wreckage. I also enjoy the company and the opportunities to help others where I can.

I've had more than enough negativity and barbed attacks in my life. I don't want any of it here.


If you can agree to respect me as you would like to be respected then I will respect you. I can write and many people understand it. I do not need a PHD to write my minds thoughts and if you have questions ask them rather then denoting I am to inferior to bother with. It may be inconvenient words but they are just as important as yours.


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05 Sep 2011, 5:58 am

Inventor wrote:
The Pride Mites spend special attention on those who could call them the frauds they are. Autism Speaks would, an Autism Scholarship would never cure anyone who had the condition. It is always a lifetime condition, unless you never had it in the first place, bought a Dx, and defrauded the system to steal benefits earmarked for others, with real needs.

ASAN seems to stand for lets claim we have autism and get scholarships.

First: Must you really use such prite-mites and other such names to describe groups of people? It's patronising.
Second: I don't think ASAN has actually ever said anything about 'let's get free scholarships'
Third: For someone who said he actually has problems and needs to be helped you accuse other people of stealing benefits depsite the fact that they have autism like you. Given that you think autism is a debilitating medical condition, doesn't that mean them asking for benefits is a good thing?
Fourth: How do people 'steal benefits'? Wince it is the docs who decide on what's up and what is not I don't think you can say ASAN or any 'pride-mite' can steal benefits. But please elaborate.
Fifth: Can you actually tell me in a short sentence the reason that ASAN are frauds?



Last edited by Gedrene on 05 Sep 2011, 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.