The Stereotype of "Lack of Empathy" and Violence

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I responded to a blog with a comment similar to the one below, in response to the "lack of empathy" issues that are circulating in the media associated with Asperger's syndrome and the recent shooting. However, I think what better needs to be identified is that difficulties with empathy are a common issue in the general public as well as identified in the diagnostic features of some labeled disorders. More specifically that difficulties with empathy alone do not forecast the destiny of criminality and/or violence.

The changes made to Anti-Social Personality Disorder in the DSM5, removing the focus from criminality/violence associated with a lack of empathy, among other factors, may in itself eventually reduce the common stereotype about deficits in perceived ability for cognitive and/or emotional empathy among individuals that has been incorrectly strongly associated with criminality and/or violence by many in the past.

https://sites.google.com/site/gavinboll ... for-autism

https://sites.google.com/site/gavinboll ... -aspergers

The DSMIV-TR diagnostic features identify a difference of emotional indifference to others in autistic disorder as opposed to Asperger's syndrome.

The research recently done in this area supports what the DSMIV-TR has identified since 2000 in the diagnostic features section of the descriptive text in the DSMIV-TR, and possibly before, but I don't have access to the 1994 diagnostic features from the DSMIV.

According to current statistics from the CDC, individuals identified diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome comprise 9% of the Autism Spectrum population studied, so it does not appear to be an accurate suggestion that the diagnostic feature identified as an emotional indifference to others in the diagnostic text, describing autistic disorder, in the diagnostic features section of the DSM-IV-TR, is not a substantial impairment in ASD's as a whole.

From the Asperger's Disorder DSM-IV-TR Diagnostic Features text:

From the Autistic Disorder DSM-IV-TR Diagnostic Features text:




Simon Baron Cohen's research identifies this difference described in the DSMIV-TR among the two disorders, with some of those with Asperger's syndrome having more difficulties with "Cognitive Empathy" as opposed to "affective"/emotional empathy, but some of those with Autistic Disorder having substantial difficulty with both types of empathy.

This is not likely going to change much in the DSM5 diagnostic features for ASD. There will likely be a range of difficulties described in social-emotional reciprocity from pursuing a conversational topic regardless of other's reactions (cognitive empathy impairment) to social and emotional indifference of others (cognitive and affective/emotional empathy impairment)

While there is a strong position to argue that clinically significant impairment in emotional empathy is not a common diagnostic feature of Asperger's syndrome, both from a diagnostic manual standpoint and a scientific research standpoint, there is not a strong position to describe the spectrum as a whole, without diagnostic features of both types of substantial impairments of empathy, because they are identified in the diagnostic manual and in scientific research.

The DSM5 has come to the conclusion that criminal activity and/or violence is not a necessary component for anti-social personality disorder. A deficit in emotional empathy for others does not dictate that someone is going to be a criminal or engage in violent behavior. There are many other factors beyond a deficit in emotional empathy for all, some, or one person in particular, that can potentially motivate a person to engage in criminal and/or violent activity, with or without a labeled disorder.

That's a stereotype that needs to be worked on. Some people incorrectly assume that all or most people identified with these innate and/or environmental empathy deficits described as diagnostic features under diagnostic labels for disorders have a destiny for criminality and/or violent behavior.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... manipulate

However, I think one should also be careful not to indicate a potential stereotype that there are not substantial difficulties in cognitive and affective/emotional empathy among some individuals, as a whole on the autism spectrum, because there is therapy that can help some of these individuals in their relationships with others, if the difficulties are properly assessed and identified.

I think it is important this stereotype about the association with impairments in empathy and violence/criminality is broken, now more than ever. To this point impairments in social-emotional reciprocity per the DSMIV-TR diagnostic features described for this criteria in difficulties with cognitive and/or affective/emotional empathy have been an optional criterion element to meet requirements for a diagnosis of Autistic Disorder or Asperger's syndrome.

This changes with the DSM5 as per the last revision made public, impairments in social-emotional reciprocity become a mandatory requirement to meet a diagnosis that was previously an optional criterion to meet the diagnostic requirements.

So basically, diagnostic features of impairments in empathy, whether significant ones associated with cognitive empathy or more substantial ones associated with cognitive and affective/emotional empathy are going to be an integral part of Autism Spectrum Disorder required to meet the criteria for a diagnosis, not an optional part of the diagnostic features to meet the requirements for a diagnosis.

Both Kanner and Hans Asperger described autistic syndromes with core difficulties with empathy with what was described as "Autistic Disturbances of Affective Contact" by Kanner, and "Autistic Pychopathy" by Hans Asperger; neither of the syndromes were associated with criminality and/or violence as a whole, but both were identified as disorders associated with substantial difficulties with empathy as a whole.

I think the lack of empathy is a part of it (just a part); it allows someone to not feel for others that they don't actually know. It's easy to demonize someone who you don't feel for. However, you need to lack sympathy (knowing how your actions are going to affect others), guilt, remorse, regret, compassion, and a slew of others, in addition to lacking an inhibiting factor that actually allows you to do this. These are usually intact in individuals with ASDs.

Just because you don't feel for others (that you have no attachment to in some way), doesn't mean you'll harm them, even if you don't like them.

I also think that people with ASDs, a certain subset of such, can lash out in an emotional high, i.e., the "meltdown" (watch the documentary, "Make Me Normal", which follows kids with Asperger's who have difficult behavior at an ASD school. Whilst I've never had that at all, they still share the same label as me, said label being able to create greater frustration and anxiety than those without. Everyone's personality has a different threshold for these things).

Whether this "meltdown" takes away rational thought and higher emotional thinking, I don't know; I've never experienced it.

That's my guess in regards to unjustly directed violence and ASDs (this is different to being socially naive about certain things).

I suppose it seems logical that, in general, people with a diagnosed deficit in empathy(both logical and emotional) would be more likely to commit violent crimes. However, it could be that, for some reason, this doesn't apply to individuals diagnosed with Autism(possibly because Autistics are more passive on average, or like to follow rules). I voted yes.

One issue identified in the ICD10 specific to Asperger's syndrome is psychotic breaks occasionally occur in early adulthood. I don't see that identified in any other diagnostic manuals, and don't hear it discussed much in the US specific to Asperger's syndrome.

http://www.mentalhealth.com/icd/p22-ch07.html

There is a normal aversion for human beings to kill each other with their bare hands. But, technology has made this easier to accomplish. Even, still, a portion of training for individuals going into combat is to desensitize them to this natural aversion. The stakes are obviously life or death when one freezes at the trigger in combat.

The issue with empathy is that no matter how much a person is born with, there is always the potential of an "assessed" deficit later on in life depending on one's life experiences.

Some people can compartmentalize it and for others it influences more of their life.

Emotional displays of empathy for males was not something that was encouraged in school when I was growing up. The ability to repress emotions, including non-verbal communication was the prize, not the ability to express them. And the last thing that would be encouraged for anyone's peers would be to seek help from a counselor, as the stigma for that was incredible several decades ago.

If it is anything like it was when I was growing up there should be no surprise why girls are usually diagnosed later than boys with Asperger's syndrome, and fewer overall are actually diagnosed, at least in part.

I do think culture has more influence on the issue than some are willing to address.

A potential psychotic break in early adulthood, seems like more of an organic issue to me than a cultural one. However what results from that psychotic break can be heavily influenced by the culture one was raised in. Desensitization to violence and a gun culture, don't make a good mix there. The fewer elements in the total equation, the less risk there is for something like this to happen, that is still relatively extremely rare, actually executed, given the whole population.

And desensitization to violence is at least in part desensitization to empathy for other human beings. It certainly does nothing to increase that quality. Those pressures that young males encountered when I was growing up to repress their demonstration of empathy/emotions, was also a method to desensitize that quality.

The additional factors in society today above and beyond those expectations of gender roles when I was young, are numerous.

Anything that elicits the fight or flight response, can result in an altered cognitive state from the flood of stress hormones; it's a primitive response for basic survival, not a "higher order" response. I think people experience what they describe as meltdowns very differently, so I have no idea of the percentage that experience the fight or flight response or not, in what they describe as meltdowns. I've heard some describe them as emotional, physical, and/or sensory.

Violence tends to derive from lacking a capacity for conscience or regret. It seems that sociopaths* and psychopaths* lack affective empathy but seem to possess at least some degree of cognitive empathy - at least those who are manipulative. It seems unlikely that someone lacking cognitive empathy could be very successful at being manipulative.

Simon Baron-Cohen has a tendency toward pathological science in my observation.

* Essentially the same thing, unless one decides to split hairs

A psychotic episode causing violence is possible, and that's easy to determine as long as there's adequate knowledge into the mindset of the accused. However, as seen in Schizophrenia, this is usually manifested by fear rather than overt violence (withdrawing away from society after a period of normal behavior leading up to it). The individual usually isn't functioning well enough to plan these (spree killing) types of events either, but the Aurora shooting case seems to have been due to some form of psychotic or manic episode, plus there's Jared Loughner who has Schizophrenia -- both of these cases show someone who is most likely "insane". So, it's possible. There's plenty of cases of individuals with psychosis confronting police officers with knives (I don't know the reason) -- getting killed in the process (a good reason for electrical weapons). There's plenty of cases of individuals with psychosis attacking strangers due to the aforementioned psychosis (they think said person is going to kill them and other delusions).

I think "mental illness", whether Asperger's, Schizophrenia, Manic Depression, and whatever, probably go with these things (that's spree killings which are in the news) -- they're not the cause, but I think they're an adjunct, especially with the amount of mental illness amongst spree killers. This is in comparison to a basic lack of empathy; that's too narrow IMO.

I'll add though, as it's been shown, people with mental illness are most likely the victims of violence and other abuse.

I think you make a good observation here. And I think the point is relative to Simon Baron-Cohen's description of individuals with Asperger's syndrome often checking the affective/emotional component of empathy vs. the cognitive component of empathy, as opposed to those with Autistic Disorder more often checking a deficit in the areas of cognitive and affective/emotional empathy.

Cohen's description here is almost identical to the DSMIV-TR description of each disorder, in the diagnostic features section; the only significant difference is that different nomenclature is used to describe the actual deficits in "cognitive" or "affective"/emotional empathy. The DSMIV-TR uses the terminology to describe it as a lack of Social-emotional reciprocity rather than a lack of cognitive or affective/ emotional empathy.

Cohen describes psychopaths/sociopaths with intact cognitive empathy, and a lack of emotional empathy. Neither of the descriptions provided by Cohen for Asperger's or Autistic Disorder describe an individual that would likely be good at manipulating others.

However those symptoms alone will not tick all the boxes to meet what is defined as a psychopath/sociopath. A lack of pro-social emotions including remorse is also a core element, among other elements. That is discussed further in the link I provided from psychology today, but the idea that some have that psychopaths have no emotions, is debunked in that article.

I don't think that Cohen makes it any secret that he is interested in the scientific exploration of pathology associated with psychology. But he also was one of the first "modern era" proponents as an autism research scientist to provide a paper suggesting that "high functioning autism"/Asperger's Syndrome, was not necessarily and inherently a disabling disorder if one was exposed to an environment that matched their strengths instead of their challenges. He is also one of the few research scientists that describes Autism Spectrum Conditions rather than Autism Spectrum Disorders.

http://www.larry-arnold.net/Neurodivers ... bility.htm

Some have got a little upset or a lot upset about his research on empathy and autism, however the results of his research confirm the differences in diagnostic features of severity of deficits in social-emotional reciprocity already described in Autistic Disorder as opposed to Asperger's Disorder, in the DSMIV-TR, that is now carrying over as a mandatory criterion in the last public revision of ASD, as opposed to the current optional criterion among a larger group of criterion in both Autistic and Asperger's Disorder.

His original research on Digit ratio, confirmed a significant difference in ratio among those diagnosed with Asperger's Disorder and Autistic Disorder, which has recently been re-affirmed in research associated with androgyny and Asperger's syndrome, as well as his own research that does not show the same sexual di-morphic features in brain structure in non-asperger's control groups of males and females as opposed to males and females with Asperger's syndrome. His association of an "extreme male" brain and high levels of prenatal testosterone among those with Asperger's syndrome has been relatively debunked in his own research.

However, those factors are still potentially associated with the development of language in males and exposure to high levels of prenatal testosterone among those with Autistic Disorder, as well as higher androgen levels among those with assessed "severe" symptoms associated with ASD as opposed to those with assessed "less severe" symptoms, as reported in recent research in those areas.

He's developed some theories in the past that didn't pan out for the entire autism spectrum, however he continues to lead research that either supports or debunks his theories. I don't think his contributions to autism research or the enhanced recognition of the full diversity of the spectrum that continues to grow along with the results of his research as time goes by can be minimized as anything other than outstanding contributions to the science of autism research compared to most research scientists that have made contributions over the last several decades.

Obviously his theories have not been close to correct specific to the entire spectrum, but no autism research scientist is coming close to meet a standard like that. Relatively speaking he's at the other end of "a spectrum" among some of the autism research scientists associated with vaccine research..

I agree that violence is more likely associated with the lack of the ability to feel remorse, than someone that doesn't lack that deficit in pro-social emotions, if that is what you mean by tends to derive from that. However, I think there are many people that commit acts of violence that are later remorseful for it, as some people have anger management problems that are likely associated and/or caused by many different biological and environmental issues, other than issues with empathy or remorse and other pro-social emotions.

I think it's extremely irresponsible for mental health professionals to simply tell reporters that people with ASD "lack empathy" when they know full well that their definition of the term differs from the general use and therefore that such statements foster misconceptions and prejudice. As for the psychologist's meaning, I don't think it has much to do with violent crime at all. As other's mentioned, it's a lack of cognitive empathy, and it doesn't take much of that to understand that being murdered is not nice.

I do think stress, trauma, and lack of social support can contribute, and we have more than our share of those.

I think that the social and emotional indifference in autism takes the form of being socially aloof, unaware, uninterested in others, not taking intense interest in others to commit violence acts against them.

I agree that it is not sufficient. It was simply an observation about that particular trait.



I mean with regards to things like his book on "evil" his interpretations are a bit questionable to me. Also, his focus on autism as an "extreme male brain" by picking specific traits he said emphasized masculine features, but not really based on a wholistic view of either masculinity or autism. Further research has determined the possibility that autism actually blunts gender differences, in that male or female, the brain tends to develop somewhere in the middle, which is not an extreme at all.



His research doesn;t bother me, but his conclusions and how he presents them do. It's been three or four months since I read The Science of Evil and I would need to read it again to fully explain my problems with that book. One thing I do recall is his appropriation of at least two urban legends as either personal experiences or experiences that happened to someone he knew.



I was trying to point to correlations, not absolute causes. I may have phrased it badly. I meant that lacking empathy does not mean lacking compassion, a capacity for guilt or regret, or lacking a conscience. I don't like to hurt people and I feel awful when it happens, but I do not really have the ability to actually predict or model what other people think or feel, especially not in real time during an interaction.

A friend of mine made the observation that serial killers are often in it for the emotional reaction of the victim, or something like that.

It would seem that someone who lacks empathy would have little interest in that.

So, grisly as it is to say, someone who lacks empathy probably wouldn't see any point in killing people even if they were otherwise inclined to do so. It might be like watching a movie in a language you don't understand.

I think the research that has been done in that area, is in agreement with that statement; of course social and emotional indifference are at the extreme end of difficulties with social-emotional reciprocity, where both cognitive and affective empathy might be impacted more significantly.

Also of note, there is positive empathy and negative empathy and all the spectrum in between. It has been reported in fields like nursing that those with high levels of emotional empathy, that are not able to regulate it with compassion, instead of sharing pain with others, often burn-out sooner that those that have the ability to regulate it.

And from a psychological/physiological stand point the burn-out can end in a deficit of both. I don't think anyone understands that process well from a biological perspective but it is reported by individuals that experience that "burn-out" of the capacity for emotional empathy and/or compassion.

I suspect these type of environmental factors in other contexts for people on the spectrum are similar, and potentially part of what leads to what is observed by others or individually described as deficits in emotional empathy, where that emotional empathy might have been previously intact and perhaps unusually strong. And I suppose too, if it happens at a young enough age and does not rebound, some forget what it was fully like to have that capacity for emotional empathy.

That's pretty tough if one's cognitive empathy is already impaired, but that impairment of cognitive empathy too, could be just another inherent chronic source of stress in interacting with others for some, that also could potentially lead to an eventual "burnout" of emotional empathy and/or compassion for others. And potentially eventually a general sate of apathy. More commonly known as chronic major depression for some with associated generalized anxiety and/or the depression for others.

I think this is a cultural area that deserves a lot more research in autism spectrum disorders. Questions like why is alexithymia prevalent in 85% of ASD's? Is it a result of the cultural environment or biological propensity?

I suspect it is likely both for some, one or the other for others.

I realize the negative impact when Autism as a whole is described as an empathy problem, but it is a core problem evidenced for many that deserves appropriate attention; particularly those that fare much better if they can avoid that type of emotional burnout, if the factors behind it can be identified and potentially prevented, and therapies effective for emotional regulation are better employed. This is an area where Tony Atwood focuses a great deal of attention and where his clinical experience with over 2000 people diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome describing these type of difficulties is priceless information used to help others with similar issues.

The tiny bit of research done on depression among folks with ASD's, to date, indicate it is significantly larger problem for those identified with "milder" forms of ASD. Perhaps the "burnout" problem is more difficult for these individuals that might start out with much higher levels of emotional empathy, hypersensitivity instead of hyposensitivity to the environment, and response to the environment in general.

Here is a pretty good article on empathy burnout:

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... on-burnout

I can relate to this in a personal way, and I do think it potentially affects some subgroups and/or individuals on the spectrum much differently than others.

I agree with everything you are saying here. There is no doubt in my mind that Cohen is at least a little eccentric, compared to most people in the world. But, that's not too unusual for a scientist, and it does appear to run in his family, per his cousin's unusual creative outlets.

If there is this thing called autistic specific empathy, autdar, or whatever one might want to call it, I can look back on my life, and all the times I shared this type of thing with some others, particularly in school among what was called the nerds, geeks and so many other names, when there was no name for Asperger's.

Some who went on at the top of the class to live with their parents indefinitely, never in a relationship, some who went on to be doctor's and psychologists, that would have been hard to predict, and others like me who were always the last person picked on any team in high school, spending a great deal of my life serving others in a government run Bowling Center, eventually a Community Activities Director, and an Athletic Director at a military installation, as a result of the computer skills that others had yet to catch up on, where capacity finally exceeded all those adaptations from walking and balancing that line all my life.

I had that empathy/emotional burnout several times in my life; my destiny could have been an institution at a young age, if I didn't have a psychologist that was curious enough to see that I was odd, and had another path, and one person higher up in the community that could vouch for my character in life.

This thing about young folks finding social roles in life after school is not getting any easier for anyone, but all I can say is I'm glad I was born when I was, or my path likely would have been much different. A group comprised of any social animal cannot work without enough places for one to gain a social role in life. The group is getting too large and the social roles are no where to be found for some. I was lucky to find my avenue and niche.

I suppose if Scarborough described what he was trying to describe without the violent component and necessity for any specific disorder to be associated, in a way similar to this, he would not have been in trouble. No one would have likely listened to that, but it might be just as well, because there may be no solution, as culture seems to increasingly be gaining a mind of it's own.

One thing I know for sure, is I'm tired of turning on the radio and hearing about another assault rifle and a couple of hundred rounds of ammunition; that is one area that might not be a significant solution, but it sure couldn't hurt to reduce that variable, as people really are more important than paper targets, and a weapon designed for killing more efficiently than most, with no purpose for the thrill of the hunt and something to eat, that has no empathy at all.

It's really sad right now that some democrats feel like guns have less empathy than those with mental illness, and some republicans seem to be giving that "credit" to this thing described as an "assault" weapon. I even heard of one proud patriarch republican politician on the radio described as touting a new mantra "mental instead of metal" or others that are not politicians stating "meds instead of metal" to outlaw psychiatric medications.

Even more sadly the end result, as already proven in the past, is likely going to be more ammunition and more "assault" rifles flying off the shelves for sale, for those that fear losing that opportunity to own that type of gun.

People aren't going to easily let go of the five year olds getting killed, than nameless faceless adults that seem easier for the general public to forget about. I suppose in part outside of human nature, that's because it's out of the social norm to even portray murdering large groups of small children, in cold blood, even in a horror movie.

No one would likely attend, even if there were such a thing available, at least outside of the internet. Sad, but sadly not out of the realm of potential for that seedier side of the web.

The future of those real life horror movies, potentially coming, at least in part, from a gun store close to someone or an unlocked gun cabinet, if a secure place even exists. If this time around, the "assault" weapons get more votes than the 5 year-olds, per empathy and emotional sentiment, in the home or in congress, that's not a good sign for the culture at hand, or the social animals that live in it.

I don't think people with AS and other disorders have a lack of empathy. I think people with AS and other disorders process things differently and work it out in there head different. So it appears to NTs that we don't care and have no empathy.