A series on don't let autism mess up a straight white dude

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https://emmapretzel.wordpress.com/2015/ ... aspergers/

http://autisticacademic.com/2015/06/23/ ... lling-you/

https://emmapretzel.wordpress.com/2015/ ... ron-cohen/

Wtf.


This is where I stopped reading.

It's basically someone that has a deep-seated hatred of both A) Aspergians, and B) Men.
I'm hoping this person isn't speaking as some sort of representative of the AS community, spouting sexist hate speech doesn't look good no matter which way you spin it.

The initial post https://emmapretzel.wordpress.com/about/ is by an autistic person. There are some valid points in the article, but the hate speech isn't doing her arguments any favors. Not to mention there are no specific quotes from the books they're bashing either. It comes across as very hypocritical, too.

Why do I get the feeling the word "priviledge" is going to be used somewhere in a non-ironic way...

Despite the fact that straight, white, male aspies have worse life outcomes than gay neurotypicals, neurotypical women, or black neurotypicals. But muh oppression, I guess.

Here is where a book was critiqued, from another post in the series (and this one may be more understandable), and it was ridiculous:

http://autisticacademic.com/2015/06/27/ ... adybrains/

The quote from the book is:

I know, growing up as a boy diagnosed with PDD-NOS (by age 6) and then Asperger's (at age 13), that this was the message about women that I received quite a bit, along with the same BS about men with AS--I was never shown an example of a girl or woman with AS. (And that parade of supposely Aspie historical figures such as Einstein and Thomas Edison, as brilliant thinkers, that was mentioned in one of the posts in the OP was something that was often trotted out in front of me.) I hated that message so much that I was determined to find counterexamples amongst girls and women and was always pleased when I did.

There was also the message that it is the job of the AS person to comport themselves completely to the NT partner that she critiqued.

I believe that my example is and has been representative of white boys diagnosed with Asperger's who do not have a learning disability.

Last edited by beneficii on 29 Jun 2015, 6:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.

That is not her view. That is a typical view among parents and other authority figures in a diagnosed autistic person's life.

I knew that, growing up, expressing anything outside of being straight and non-trans would be seen as a manifestation of the autism itself, or some other disease process (like the one that led to my psychotic break at age 14), and thus as a problem that needed to be fixed and a sign I wasn't ready to be free of the monitoring and restrictions that were placed on me and I knew could be restored later. At times where I feared being locked up forever, like at age 14-15 around when I spent 6 months in a mental hospital, where up until the evening my parents discharged me against medical advice there was no end in sight to being locked up away from home (and was shown stuff like the first Ace Ventura movie), I began to believe it myself.

No, it's certainly not a typical view that people subscribe to, it doesn't appear to be anyone's view. It's an entirely fabricated straw man argument, and fabricated in the most extreme way possible. She basically said: "They said that women are being raped because they're too stupid."
The vast majority don't believe such nonsense, it's complete and utter w*k.

While that's horrid and shouldn't be happening, I don't see its relevance.

Emma is talking about autistic women, speaking from her own experience (as she is autistic herself) and the books she is criticizing. She goes into more detail regarding the messages that are sent regarding autistic women:



I don't know about you, but it seems to me, based on my experience and on what I've read, that while our caretakers may mean well they seem to give us narrow pathways on what we can be, what we can accomplish, and what goals we should strive for.

Then perhaps she shouldn't. Any valid points she makes will be overshadowed by extremism, and hateful sexism, to which people can then mistake and tarnish the entire AS community as.

It's more than likely, that the reason she didn't take any quotes from the books she's criticising, is because the books don't contain "AS women do stupid things, that's why they get raped." Sure, there might be horrible people in jail somewhere making these appalling arguments, but it certainly isn't what the vast majority of people think.

Well, Dani quoted from one book, and that quote from that book is in this very thread (in case you missed it), that talked about women being "subtle" and about the implicitly male (since this was about men with AS getting women) "high performing logical Asperger brain," to which women as a group are so opaque. That's pretty sexist and it is exactly the sort of thing they are criticizing. The book makes women out to be irrational and ruled by their emotions. Judging from the sexist crap that we get from society, like "That woman wouldn't have been raped if she wasn't wearing that short skirt" (and if you've never come across that sentiment, you're living under a rock) and the limiting narratives available to autistic women, it's not that far of a stretch that for them the message they are receiving that's for them, as autistic women, is this: They need to be taught not to do anything "stupid that'll get them raped."

To call them sexist and extremist for criticizing what they've seen in society, the real sexism, and the limited narratives given to them as autistic women makes no sense. It really makes me wonder, Are we reading the same thing?

Also, I've noticed that you have not responded to the messages I've received on the man's end of things, which for me only supports what they're saying. Do you doubt it?

No, it's all gibberish, and I don't see a quote for any book.


No, that doesn't exist in our society. The vast vast vast majority of people don't think that the victim is to blame for being raped, because of an article of clothing.

I have seen hateful extremists take someone else's precautionary suggestions and grossly misquote them. Is that what's going on here? Are the books giving suggestions that are then being grossly misquoted?


She started off with women being considered "stupid that'll get them raped," and it is extremist. Then goes on to talk about her strong disdain for Aspergians and men, or any problems they should face.
What part of that isn't sexist and hateful extremism.


I've not seen any messages you've received, and therefore can't respond to whatever it is you're talking about. It's also not a valid way to tell if someone else's arguments are credible or not. "Oh, you didn't respond to some messages I received, therefore another person is right about something they said," it's complete nonsense.

It's clear that we should be raising men to respect women.

you know, somehow teaching boys that they shouldn't force themselves on girls, that nobody should force themselves on anybody, is a necessary plan for the future.

The plan for today should include teaching potential victims how not to be a victim. It sucks that we live in a world where this would give them an advantage in life, but we do.

Time is linear, and people are stupid and stubborn, so for the greatest benefit, we should work both of these angles.

Even if we shouldn't *have to work one of them.

I have accepted that as a male nobody cares about my problems or desires wrt. romantic fulfillment.

Then we should teach young boys not to murder.

How is it you don't see a problem with creating a toxic environment, whereby you're automatically thought of as a criminal, just for having a penis.

You're imagining things. Both authors make clear that the messaging is the problem.

Again, quoted from one book, very clear sexism against women:



As she stated, this paragraph does little more than to give a hot-air ego boost to the autistic man while expecting him to pretend to be neurotypical and stereotyping women. As she states, this is sexist. Not only that, but if the autistic man follows this advce, because of the way it inflates his ego and makes him pretend to be what he is not, he might be able to form relationshps but they are likely to fail.

Both authors make clear that this is messaging that is typically given to autistic men, judging from the books they have read overall. This one was likely quoted because it was the most obvious offender. I know that growing up I received this kind of messaging, not necessarily from my parents, but from special education teachers and other support people. To me, this further supports what is being said.

I agree with her observation.

I'm assuming that you are autistic. I consider people with PDD-NOS and Asperger's syndrome to be autistic, in case that was not already clear.

Actually, they do care or at least pretend to. There are lots of books, which are reviewed in the OP, geared toward "helping" autistic males get dates. If you grow up with a diagnosis and you express concern at not being able to date, then you will get lots of advice from all sorts of people. Such "help" is so prevalent that some people, like the women in the OP, get tired of seeing so much focus on getting autistic men to pretend to be neurotypical in order to date women and eventually marry one and have kids.

Of course, since we just found that a lot of this stuff is BS and some of it even harmful, as was made clear in the OP and subsequent posts, I would get angry at this situation.

Oh, so she didn't write those things now? They were just part of my imagination. Is that what you're saying?


No it isn't.
This describes a very common problem that AS people find themselves having to try and overcome.


No it doesn't.
Nowhere in that paragraph does it tell anyone that they're top s**t. It talks about the reality of having problems in a relationship, that can be more prevalent for AS people. That doesn't prop up ones ego, that actually looks quite f*****g depressing.


No it doesn't.
It states what people do under such situations, it doesn't say what you're supposed to do.


No it doesn't.
The author even went out of their way, not to generalise. The situation the author talks about, is in fact commonplace. Not all, but many women do communicate with hints, and are very subtle with their communication. Many women do expect you to know what's going on, when their communication attempts have slipped under the radar, and can think you're callous or cold for not knowing. It is a problem that happens, and it is quite common, and stating so is not a stereotype. To call merely stating a problem that AS people have, as just being a sexist stereotype, is simply appalling. It's a very real problem that people have, and this tries to paint the problem as some sort of myth.