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androbot01
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01 Feb 2017, 8:34 am

RightWingWatch: Trump Nominates Conservative Ideologue Neil Gorsuch To Supreme Court

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Has repeatedly ruled against the rights of disabled students. Gorsuch has authored a handful of opinions limiting the ability of disabled students to seek protection under the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, including holding that “a student with autism did not have a right under the federal Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) to an education that would provide a chance to achieve intellectual and social skills outside the classroom” and that “even when a school violates a student’s rights under the IDEA, the student may still be entitled to no remedy for an IDEA violation if the student leaves the school out of frustration with the school‘s continuous failure to follow the IDEA.”



Jacoby
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01 Feb 2017, 8:37 am

How come I didn't have any rights or recourse at all in school? Is this new? They completely abandoned me and I will never forgive them.



yelekam
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01 Feb 2017, 8:53 am

Jacoby wrote:
How come I didn't have any rights or recourse at all in school? Is this new? They completely abandoned me and I will never forgive them.

Idea was passed in 1990. When a particular school actually bothered to start following the law, is an open question.



androbot01
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01 Feb 2017, 8:57 am

Jacoby wrote:
How come I didn't have any rights or recourse at all in school? Is this new? They completely abandoned me and I will never forgive them.

Um, okay. I had a rough time in school too - I gained an education but at a huge cost. However, this is not the Haven.

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“What saddens me the most as a mom and a grandmother, though, is his hostility towards children in school, children with autism. He has ruled that they don't have the same rights under the IDEA (the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) that children -- that they could reach their intellectual and social advancement under the law. He has said that doesn't apply to them. He's come down against them under the ADA, as well, and again under IDEA.

CNS: Pelosi: Gorsuch ‘Against Employees’ Rights, Clean Air, Clean Water, Food Safety’—Even Autistic Children



AspieUtah
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01 Feb 2017, 9:00 am

If Gorsuch is confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court, he will only become one of four conservative justices to counter the four liberal justices. Remember: Associate Justice Anthony Kennedy remains the deciding factor. He is the justice who gave the United States its landmark marriage-equality opinion. As such, I doubt that he would go too far in changing the improvements gained by disabled Americans.


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Jacoby
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01 Feb 2017, 9:03 am

yelekam wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
How come I didn't have any rights or recourse at all in school? Is this new? They completely abandoned me and I will never forgive them.

Idea was passed in 1990. When a particular school actually bothered to start following the law, is an open question.


Never in the case of school districts that are disadvantaged to begin with, no real help with anything and definitely no transition. IDEA doesn't seem like its worth the paper it was written on, in my experience. No recourse, no anything. Public education is a joke!



androbot01
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01 Feb 2017, 9:14 am

Quote:
...holding that “a student with autism did not have a right under the federal Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) to an education that would provide a chance to achieve intellectual and social skills outside the classroom


I agree that public education is a joke in both your county and mine (probably worse in your country;) that is not the point.
Gorsuch is arguing that autistic children are too far gone to even be worth trying to educate. This may not have any practical significance, but it is still enormously bothersome.



Jacoby
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01 Feb 2017, 10:07 am

androbot01 wrote:
Quote:
...holding that “a student with autism did not have a right under the federal Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) to an education that would provide a chance to achieve intellectual and social skills outside the classroom


I agree that public education is a joke in both your county and mine (probably worse in your country;) that is not the point.
Gorsuch is arguing that autistic children are too far gone to even be worth trying to educate. This may not have any practical significance, but it is still enormously bothersome.


Education triggers me I guess, I apologize. I think public education should be abolished but that's another thread.

I went and read the decision he wrote in the case that is being refered to here, it's an interesting read and it's pretty easy to understand for legalese. What I get out of it is that the court ruled that IDEA as it was written by congress was limited in scope and did not include "a potential-maximizing education" rather than a personal opinion that autistic children are too far gone to even be worth trying to educate as you said.

Reading this decision and thinking about this law, it occurred to me you have to have some amount of money/privilege/educate to be litigious enough to take advantage of it.



https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1 ... el-jeff-p/

https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/1 ... el-jeff-p/



BTDT
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01 Feb 2017, 10:14 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheff_v._O%27Neill
You may be interested in reading about what happened in Connecticut concerning unequal education in public schools.



androbot01
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01 Feb 2017, 10:47 am

Jacoby wrote:
Education triggers me I guess, I apologize. I think public education should be abolished but that's another thread.

Me too; major trigger. I think that with the technology of the internet available, most children would be fine being home schooled.

Jacoby wrote:
"a potential-maximizing education"

Interesting phrase. I'm not sure how such would be determined.



rontilley
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01 Feb 2017, 4:24 pm

Judge Gorsuch has written some terrible opinions when it comes to the education of the disabled.
The Supreme Court heard oral arguments in Jan 2017 to clean up the mess he made on the 10th circuit. A student in the area covered by Gorsiuch's 10th circuit court appealed his terrible decision and the Supreme Court agreed to hear the case.

Instead of following the Supreme Court's ruling that the educational benefit mandated by IDEA to a Free Appropriate Public Education (FAPE) be "meaningful"; Gorsuch penned the following ruling while serving on the 10th circuit:
"A school district is not required to provide every service that would benefit a student if it has found a formula that can reasonably be expected to generate SOME PROGRESS (notice how he replaced MEANINGFUL with SOME PROGRESS) on that student's IEP goals.... the educational benefit mandated by IDEA must MERELY be "more than de minimis" ("de minimus" means "too trivial or minor to merit consideration").

In other words, as long as the IEP is helping the disabled student to progress in any significant way in just one area; then the school has done their job. There's no need to follow best practice or to have an IEP that is excellent...or fair...just one that could lead to some level of progress in just one area.

The Supreme Court will probably (let's hope) end up overturning Gorsuch's opinion and say an IEP needs to be "aimed at significant educational progress in light of the child’s circumstances" (language used in the IDEA).

But Gorsuch's rulings have made it clear that if it was up to him all a school district would need to put in place is an IEP that would be minimally advantageous for the student rather than significantly advantageous.

To find the opinion where Gorsuch lowered the bar for IEPs from being significant advantageous to merely minimally advantageous google: Thompson R2-J School v. LUKE P

For a summary of the arguments heard before SCOTUS in January 2017 google: argument-analysis-justices-grapple-proper-standard-measuring-educational-benefits-children-disabilities

For a write up of the pending case before SCOTUS google:
"Educational Benefit: “Merely More Than De Minimis” or “Meaningful”?

The decision of SCOTUS is expected by Summer.



androbot01
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01 Feb 2017, 6:28 pm

rontilley wrote:
For a write up of the pending case before SCOTUS google:
"Educational Benefit: “Merely More Than De Minimis” or “Meaningful”?

The decision of SCOTUS is expected by Summer.


Wright's Law

Quote:
On August 18, 2016, the Solicitor General filed a brief as Amicus Curiae and urged the Supreme Court to grant the parent’s Petition and decide this issue. The question presented is “whether the ‘educational benefit’ provided by a school district must be ‘merely more than de minimis’ to satisfy the FAPE requirement" as established in the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Board of Education of the Hendrick Hudson Central School District v. Amy Rowley, 458 U. S. 176 (1982).
...
“The Tenth Circuit’s approach is not consistent with the text, structure, or purpose of the IDEA . . . and it has the effect of depriving children with disabilities of the benefits Congress has granted them by law.”


This is an interesting case. It brings into question the value of life fulfillment for the disabled. If the disabled are not entitled to an enriching education then does this bring into question the value of disabled people?



jrjones9933
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01 Feb 2017, 6:52 pm

Traditional roles will also be the new normal for people with disabilities. Perhaps they will bring back Ugly Laws.

Just learned that our lives may be deemed hopeless, but they are not our own.


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10 Feb 2017, 2:40 pm

If need be put on your language censors cause, I might wind up being colorful in language. Anyways, I could care less about if someone idiot from stupidville thinks autistic people are without help and should be simply disregarded, That is not merely insulting be outrageous and demoralizing. All autistic people can do well if not go beyond measured statistics if there are a wide variety of resources available to them. However, in my time Asperger Syndrome simply did not exist whereby, I literally fell through the cracks of the entire educational system from 1st-12th grade and even into my 1st semester of College which, I never completed.
Whatever it takes I'll try to reduce whatever measures he tries to incorporate so, my niece whom might be autistic will not be fleeced.


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