How will Neurodiversity helped people with Severe Autism?

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Shahunshah
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08 Nov 2016, 4:03 am

I can guess some of the ways myself. But I am wondering what you lot of Wrong Planet think.



ASPartOfMe
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08 Nov 2016, 10:40 am

ABA is a lot less about aversives then it used to be.

There have been people that would have been viewed as hopeless for life in the past that have had an opportunity to demonstrate skills.

But the treatment of severe autistics has been dominated by lack of better expression the "medical model" of autism.


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Shahunshah
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08 Nov 2016, 5:50 pm

Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?



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08 Nov 2016, 5:55 pm

Research on NT - Autistic communication. Kind of like sign language, they do not cure hearing impairments, they just help those with and without hearing impairments communicate with each other.


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johnnyh
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08 Nov 2016, 6:23 pm

What is the neurodiversity view on the role of environmental factors and illness during pregnancy on the etiology of autism? And what reasoning do they use to still consider it not a disease or disorder despite their role? And when they decide there should be no cure, is their any cognitive dissonance in knowing the environmental affects of autism? Do they view these environmental toxins or factors such as sickness as being good for humanity when they do trigger autism in conjunction with genetic abnormalities? Like how people in the past though exposure to radiation would give better health or superpowers? (I am serious, I am trying see your point of view.)

Edit: I would like to see the opinion of all the notable people in neurodiversity answer these questions. Or at least find out what is the most agreed upon consensus.


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I want to apologize to the entire forum. I have been a terrible person, very harsh and critical.
I still hold many of my views, but I will tone down my anger and stop being so bigoted and judgmental. I can't possibly know how you see things and will stop thinking I know everything you all think.

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09 Nov 2016, 1:02 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?


Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living.



johnnyh
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09 Nov 2016, 1:40 pm

yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?


Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living.
.

I'm sorry but that just sounds absurd. Should we include Parkinson's, schizophrenia, and brain damage in that package?
Do you think that would be somehow cheaper than eliminating the problem? Autism may cost the world a trillion dollars by 2025, do you want to force everyone to pay till the end of time? resources are not unlimited. Do you think autistics who would rather be normal are deluded? By that measure are transgendered people all self hating and with "false consciousness"?


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I want to apologize to the entire forum. I have been a terrible person, very harsh and critical.
I still hold many of my views, but I will tone down my anger and stop being so bigoted and judgmental. I can't possibly know how you see things and will stop thinking I know everything you all think.

-Johnnyh


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09 Nov 2016, 10:49 pm

johnnyh wrote:
yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?


Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living.
.

I'm sorry but that just sounds absurd. Should we include Parkinson's, schizophrenia, and brain damage in that package?
Do you think that would be somehow cheaper than eliminating the problem? Autism may cost the world a trillion dollars by 2025, do you want to force everyone to pay till the end of time? resources are not unlimited. Do you think autistics who would rather be normal are deluded? By that measure are transgendered people all self hating and with "false consciousness"?


People cost the world trillions of dollars. You frankly don't have a clue to what you are talking about, with no understanding of economy or psychiatry.


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yelekam
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11 Nov 2016, 1:22 am

johnnyh wrote:
yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?


Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living.
.

I'm sorry but that just sounds absurd. Should we include Parkinson's, schizophrenia, and brain damage in that package?
Do you think that would be somehow cheaper than eliminating the problem? Autism may cost the world a trillion dollars by 2025, do you want to force everyone to pay till the end of time? resources are not unlimited. Do you think autistics who would rather be normal are deluded? By that measure are transgendered people all self hating and with "false consciousness"?


Autism is not a problem, it is a naturally occurring variation in humanity. It provides its own challenges and benefits, as does every other natural variation, including the doxist (nuerotypical) variation which dominates society. Much of the challenges autistic people face do not come from autism, but from a society which is not structured to adequately suite our needs or support our success, as much as it does with doxists.
The presence of autistic people is beneficial to humanity as a whole. The unique thinking, perspectives, interests, and skills of autistic people has helped produce new things. The development of radio, computers, and the internet is in part due to the contributions of autistic people. The work of Temple Grandin have changed the way American farmers handle cattle. Satoshi Tajiri created Pokémon. There are variety of Nobel prize winners who are autistic. The world would be considerably poorer without autistic people.



Shahunshah
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11 Nov 2016, 5:46 am

yelekam wrote:
johnnyh wrote:
yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?


Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living.
.

I'm sorry but that just sounds absurd. Should we include Parkinson's, schizophrenia, and brain damage in that package?
Do you think that would be somehow cheaper than eliminating the problem? Autism may cost the world a trillion dollars by 2025, do you want to force everyone to pay till the end of time? resources are not unlimited. Do you think autistics who would rather be normal are deluded? By that measure are transgendered people all self hating and with "false consciousness"?


Autism is not a problem, it is a naturally occurring variation in humanity. It provides its own challenges and benefits, as does every other natural variation, including the doxist (nuerotypical) variation which dominates society. Much of the challenges autistic people face do not come from autism, but from a society which is not structured to adequately suite our needs or support our success, as much as it does with doxists.
The presence of autistic people is beneficial to humanity as a whole. The unique thinking, perspectives, interests, and skills of autistic people has helped produce new things. The development of radio, computers, and the internet is in part due to the contributions of autistic people. The work of Temple Grandin have changed the way American farmers handle cattle. Satoshi Tajiri created Pokémon. There are variety of Nobel prize winners who are autistic. The world would be considerably poorer without autistic people.
You know the thing is about all those people you have mentioned, they all belong to a category of autistic people that are deemed to be high functioning. You may use them as evidence that autistic people can be successful and have a good life but when you do that you are ignoring the autistic person that is non-verbal, has crippling sensory issues, can't live independently and has epilepsy. Specifically what does your movement want to do to help them?



yelekam
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11 Nov 2016, 8:28 am

Shahunshah wrote:
yelekam wrote:
johnnyh wrote:
yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?


Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living.
.

I'm sorry but that just sounds absurd. Should we include Parkinson's, schizophrenia, and brain damage in that package?
Do you think that would be somehow cheaper than eliminating the problem? Autism may cost the world a trillion dollars by 2025, do you want to force everyone to pay till the end of time? resources are not unlimited. Do you think autistics who would rather be normal are deluded? By that measure are transgendered people all self hating and with "false consciousness"?


Autism is not a problem, it is a naturally occurring variation in humanity. It provides its own challenges and benefits, as does every other natural variation, including the doxist (nuerotypical) variation which dominates society. Much of the challenges autistic people face do not come from autism, but from a society which is not structured to adequately suite our needs or support our success, as much as it does with doxists.
The presence of autistic people is beneficial to humanity as a whole. The unique thinking, perspectives, interests, and skills of autistic people has helped produce new things. The development of radio, computers, and the internet is in part due to the contributions of autistic people. The work of Temple Grandin have changed the way American farmers handle cattle. Satoshi Tajiri created Pokémon. There are variety of Nobel prize winners who are autistic. The world would be considerably poorer without autistic people.
You know the thing is about all those people you have mentioned, they all belong to a category of autistic people that are deemed to be high functioning. You may use them as evidence that autistic people can be successful and have a good life but when you do that you are ignoring the autistic person that is non-verbal, has crippling sensory issues, can't live independently and has epilepsy. Specifically what does your movement want to do to help them?


First off, that post was in reply to an ignorant post, who made an erroneous attack on all autistic people, and therefor those examples are relevant to counter their misguided claims.
What would neurodiversity to help the so called severely autistic?
Again, Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living. These so called severely autistic (which an arbitrary distinction) are not useless bodies, they have value and potential. If you want to get a sense of what neurodiversity could do to help the so called severely autistic, do some reading on the work of William Stillman and his humanistic approach to autism. His work has improved the lives of many autistic people including those who are non-verbal, have sensory issues, et cetera.
But underlying this sort of talk of the so called severely autistic is the presumption is that their difficulties of such sort come from autism. That is neither self-evident nor proven to be the case. For all we know, there is a comorbid condition entirely separate from autism which creates those issues. But whether on not, it still makes presumptions about autism which are unconfirmed.



johnnyh
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11 Nov 2016, 5:02 pm

Those comorbid conditions are there because of the autism. Or the inherent severity causes more symptoms. Seizures result possibly from the developmental processes changed in autism.

What scientific evidence can we wager over to see who is correct? Others on this forum have already denied any environmental influence in triggering autism despite the evidence.

If we get rid of dangerous chemicals, toxins, food additives etc. Are you so sure nothing will not change?


_________________
I want to apologize to the entire forum. I have been a terrible person, very harsh and critical.
I still hold many of my views, but I will tone down my anger and stop being so bigoted and judgmental. I can't possibly know how you see things and will stop thinking I know everything you all think.

-Johnnyh


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12 Nov 2016, 9:07 pm

johnnyh wrote:
Those comorbid conditions are there because of the autism. Or the inherent severity causes more symptoms. Seizures result possibly from the developmental processes changed in autism.

What scientific evidence can we wager over to see who is correct? Others on this forum have already denied any environmental influence in triggering autism despite the evidence.

If we get rid of dangerous chemicals, toxins, food additives etc. Are you so sure nothing will not change?


No. Most likely there is an underlying condition which causes intellectual disability in these people, which may make autism more severe then in other people because it removes some copy tools, or the underlying condition somehow causes a form of autism, but the underlying condition can't be said to be autism itself. Key problem is you fail to understand what autism even is. That being said, seizures very well could arise from a neurology which results in autism because both can arise from a more-connected brain.

The evidence is that autism is PRIMARILY genetic, but it can't be explained entirely genetically. Whether it's actually the environment causing autism, or just making it more severe so it's more likely to be diagnosed, it still unknown.

And your last paragraph shows that you have no idea how nutrition actually works and are just gobbling down woo.


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Shahunshah
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13 Nov 2016, 6:35 pm

yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
yelekam wrote:
johnnyh wrote:
yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?


Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living.
.

I'm sorry but that just sounds absurd. Should we include Parkinson's, schizophrenia, and brain damage in that package?
Do you think that would be somehow cheaper than eliminating the problem? Autism may cost the world a trillion dollars by 2025, do you want to force everyone to pay till the end of time? resources are not unlimited. Do you think autistics who would rather be normal are deluded? By that measure are transgendered people all self hating and with "false consciousness"?


Autism is not a problem, it is a naturally occurring variation in humanity. It provides its own challenges and benefits, as does every other natural variation, including the doxist (nuerotypical) variation which dominates society. Much of the challenges autistic people face do not come from autism, but from a society which is not structured to adequately suite our needs or support our success, as much as it does with doxists.
The presence of autistic people is beneficial to humanity as a whole. The unique thinking, perspectives, interests, and skills of autistic people has helped produce new things. The development of radio, computers, and the internet is in part due to the contributions of autistic people. The work of Temple Grandin have changed the way American farmers handle cattle. Satoshi Tajiri created Pokémon. There are variety of Nobel prize winners who are autistic. The world would be considerably poorer without autistic people.
You know the thing is about all those people you have mentioned, they all belong to a category of autistic people that are deemed to be high functioning. You may use them as evidence that autistic people can be successful and have a good life but when you do that you are ignoring the autistic person that is non-verbal, has crippling sensory issues, can't live independently and has epilepsy. Specifically what does your movement want to do to help them?


First off, that post was in reply to an ignorant post, who made an erroneous attack on all autistic people, and therefor those examples are relevant to counter their misguided claims.
What would neurodiversity to help the so called severely autistic?
Again, Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living. These so called severely autistic (which an arbitrary distinction) are not useless bodies, they have value and potential. If you want to get a sense of what neurodiversity could do to help the so called severely autistic, do some reading on the work of William Stillman and his humanistic approach to autism. His work has improved the lives of many autistic people including those who are non-verbal, have sensory issues, et cetera.
But underlying this sort of talk of the so called severely autistic is the presumption is that their difficulties of such sort come from autism. That is neither self-evident nor proven to be the case. For all we know, there is a comorbid condition entirely separate from autism which creates those issues. But whether on not, it still makes presumptions about autism which are unconfirmed.
But here is the thing research into better therapies is what we have been doing for years and so far it has been without great results. Because with that in mind most of the therapies that we have uncovered such as CBT have specifically benefited people more high functioning on the spectrum.



johnnyh
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16 Nov 2016, 2:16 pm

How does utilitarianism and neurodiversity interact?


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I want to apologize to the entire forum. I have been a terrible person, very harsh and critical.
I still hold many of my views, but I will tone down my anger and stop being so bigoted and judgmental. I can't possibly know how you see things and will stop thinking I know everything you all think.

-Johnnyh


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18 Nov 2016, 6:14 pm

Shahunshah wrote:
yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
yelekam wrote:
johnnyh wrote:
yelekam wrote:
Shahunshah wrote:
Okay but what would the Neurodiverse perspective be? I mean if they achieve their goals and eliminate the search for a cure then what comes next?


Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living.
.

I'm sorry but that just sounds absurd. Should we include Parkinson's, schizophrenia, and brain damage in that package?
Do you think that would be somehow cheaper than eliminating the problem? Autism may cost the world a trillion dollars by 2025, do you want to force everyone to pay till the end of time? resources are not unlimited. Do you think autistics who would rather be normal are deluded? By that measure are transgendered people all self hating and with "false consciousness"?


Autism is not a problem, it is a naturally occurring variation in humanity. It provides its own challenges and benefits, as does every other natural variation, including the doxist (nuerotypical) variation which dominates society. Much of the challenges autistic people face do not come from autism, but from a society which is not structured to adequately suite our needs or support our success, as much as it does with doxists.
The presence of autistic people is beneficial to humanity as a whole. The unique thinking, perspectives, interests, and skills of autistic people has helped produce new things. The development of radio, computers, and the internet is in part due to the contributions of autistic people. The work of Temple Grandin have changed the way American farmers handle cattle. Satoshi Tajiri created Pokémon. There are variety of Nobel prize winners who are autistic. The world would be considerably poorer without autistic people.
You know the thing is about all those people you have mentioned, they all belong to a category of autistic people that are deemed to be high functioning. You may use them as evidence that autistic people can be successful and have a good life but when you do that you are ignoring the autistic person that is non-verbal, has crippling sensory issues, can't live independently and has epilepsy. Specifically what does your movement want to do to help them?


First off, that post was in reply to an ignorant post, who made an erroneous attack on all autistic people, and therefor those examples are relevant to counter their misguided claims.
What would neurodiversity to help the so called severely autistic?
Again, Research into things which can be used to help improve their lives and develop their skills. Working toward producing more assistance for these people to have a humane living. These so called severely autistic (which an arbitrary distinction) are not useless bodies, they have value and potential. If you want to get a sense of what neurodiversity could do to help the so called severely autistic, do some reading on the work of William Stillman and his humanistic approach to autism. His work has improved the lives of many autistic people including those who are non-verbal, have sensory issues, et cetera.
But underlying this sort of talk of the so called severely autistic is the presumption is that their difficulties of such sort come from autism. That is neither self-evident nor proven to be the case. For all we know, there is a comorbid condition entirely separate from autism which creates those issues. But whether on not, it still makes presumptions about autism which are unconfirmed.
But here is the thing research into better therapies is what we have been doing for years and so far it has been without great results. Because with that in mind most of the therapies that we have uncovered such as CBT have specifically benefited people more high functioning on the spectrum.


Actually most of the therapies for autism are geared towards those who are lower functioning.


_________________
Cinnamon and sugary
Softly Spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through other people's eyes

Autism FAQs http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt186115.html